Land ISSUES - Lawyers advise

[Junkman]

I don't think the thread has been hijacked at all. Both problems are about land issues and the need for due dilligence before going to settlement, or in these cases how to resolve a problem after the fact.

Ohio Guy - If it hasn't been said before, I would cut off all direct communication with all parties involved and speak only through your lawyer. They are all in the CYA mode to minimize their losses. You do not want to say anything that will strengthen their position and weaken yours.

We are all interested in the outcome and hope it meets your expectations.

67- Listen to Junk and do the research. Sooner or later you are going to have to deal with the property line/driveway issue. You don't want to wait until you want to sell your property or the neighbor sells hers and the new owner puts a fence up and denies access to the driveway.

If you can't come to a resolution with your neighbor, you may have to relocate your driveway. At the very least have a plan.

In the long run it's only going to cost you more if you wait.

Jim

I agree with you 100%. The only thing to think about when these type of land issues come up, is how deep your pockets are. Attorneys don't work cheap, and it isn't in their interest to bring the matter to a swift and equitable close. You are always better off resolving it between the two parties involved, than you are to heading into a courtroom setting. I have done it both ways and I can tell you first hand that it can get expensive and ugly quickly. In the case of NWOhioChevyGuy , he is lucky that his title insurance company is on the hook to settle this, but you can be certain that they don't give a damn about his needs or wants. They just want to get out of this as quickly and inexpensively as they can. If he doesn't get an aggressive attorney on his side quickly, he is going to get roasted in the flames. The farmer knows that he is in the drivers seat, and is just holding out for the greatest amount of money that he can get. I doubt that he even realizes that his lease has a good chance of getting tossed by a judge, just because of how it was written and the compensation agreed to. If he gets to court, he is also going to need to prove that it was not a sweet heart deal to screw the previous mortgage company. After reading the contract, I am very suspicious of it.
In the case of Lookin4'67Galaxieconv, it is quite different. He purchased a property from an owner, and made the mistake of not having a survey done on the property at that time. What the seller told him were the boundaries, is important, since he might have a claim against the original seller, if the statute of limitations hasn't expired, and if he can prove that the original seller should have known about this "error" and have disclosed it. This also is going to be an uphill fight if he decides to litigate the matter. Fifty years ago, the courts were more lenient about adverse possession, and title issues. Today, with the soaring cost of land, they have taken a more conservative approach, and are not willing to give another's property to someone just because they make a claim of right to the land. When you weigh the cost of the attorneys fees against the value of the land that you want to acquire, you will rapidly realize that it is cheaper to buy it, no matter what the cost. When it comes to land disputes, the only winners are the attorney's...

 

[randydupree]

67.
i have been buying propertys for along time.
i used to just call the land owner and ask if they wanted to sell,most times they just said no.

then i started just sending a contract,detailing what i would pay,when i would pay (after survey etc) and all of that.
once i started sending the contracts,i have bought every plot i wanted.
when a person gets a contract with a dollar amount on it,they look at it differently.

you can find a contract online,just print it off.
but,once the deal is made,have a lawyer close the sale.

 

[fattogatto]

67's issue is not uncommon when an owner subdivides a piece of property that has established structures and architectural/landscape features already estblished. It usually stems from an error by the survey company that draws up the subdivision that does not coincide with the desires of the subdivider. It depends on the state law, but, at least in TN, 67's neighbor will not ever be allowed to fence off the portion of the 67's driveway even though they technically own the land. You can not deprive someone of an established right of way. I am in this exact situation except that my neighbor's driveway is on my property, along with several hundred saquare feet of dirt. The problem stemmed from the fact that one family subdivided a large plot amongst themselves, not caring if there were subtle differences between actual property lines and perceived property boundaries. This was done in 1973 and has just come to light after the properties in question had been sold several times. I am trying to sell the offending piece to my neighbor for the cost of building a wall along the proper boundary (total cost $5500) and he doesn't want to pay. The option is to build a wall on the extant property line up to within 5' of his driveway (setback/easement) and he can live with it. (Rather, he'll have to live with his wife who will not like the two car garage plus dually pad I plan to put there if they don't agree.) We still hope to settle this amicably.

 

[Jaguar Fan]

... Attorneys don't work cheap, and it isn't in their interest to bring the matter to a swift and equitable close. ... When it comes to land disputes, the only winners are the attorney's...

Sorry, I gotta disagree with you. When it comes to charging for labor (medical, dental, legal, car repair, general contracting on "time and materials", etc) professionals do indeed think of their reputations. Overcharging one guy might mean some extra $$ in the bank this month, but in the long run, it is always bad business. And, whereas the car repair shop that overcharges for work might lose the customer for future business (and through word of mouth other potential customers), you have to remember one thing about the legal profession: attorneys can -- and do -- lose their license to practice law (e.g., their entire livelihood) if they engage in such practices.

In the long run, good car mechanics protect their reputation & have all the work they can handle; ditto for lawyers. They don't need to be unethical to extract $$ from a client -- they are already working 14 hour days servicing their growing list of clients. The tough part, of course, is finding that good attorney.

I agree it will not be inexpensive; you gotta pay for quality. The OP may pay more in legal fees than the farmer paid for the paid-up lease.

One other thing: I regularly reviewed legal bills to the corporation from which I recently retired. The type of legal work is completely different from this thread (it was all patent work: "prosecuting" patent applications through the USPTO and some patent licensing work). I'd look at the bill & the hours charged & the rates charged & I would regularly call up the billing partner & say "you're charging me 16 hours for a piece of research we both know should only take 10" and the partner would almost always agree with me & reduce the bill. (I was being reasonable -- not trying to screw the law firm). It is tough to do this, obviously, unless you have some direct knowledge of what a piece of work should cost in the first place.... but you can always ask & point out it costs too much. A reasonable, ethical attorney isn't going to try to screw you.

By the way... go ahead ... insert all the lawyer jokes you can think of right here.

 

[gunguy]

Charlie - I'm not a lawyer or in the real estate business so I will assume you are correct on the issue of the established right-of-way.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is an issue that may cloud the value and future sale of 67's property, should he ever want to. In the case of Ohio Guy, there's a big cloud that needs to be resolved. My very limited experience in matters lilke these is that it is usually better to resolve them when discovered than to wait and be forced into a position where all you may be able to do is cut your losses.

I don't know if Ohio Guy or 67 hired a lawyer or surveyor or any other professional in the business before the purchase of their properties. It seems to me though that these are perfect examples why they should be hired.

With that said, even professionals make mistakes, but at least if they do, you have a better possibility of recourse.

For many people, their real property makes up a substantial portion of their net worth. Why risk that to save a few hundred or a few thousand on lawyers and surveys and such? What ever may be saved upfront will be lost many times over if a mess has to be cleaned up after the fact. That's just talking about the money part. What price can be put on the stress?

Just my opinon - yours may differ.

Ohio Guy - I hope your issue is resolved soon so you can move on. We need an update when you get the chance.

Jim

 

[Junkman]

Sorry, I gotta disagree with you. When it comes to charging for labor (medical, dental, legal, car repair, general contracting on "time and materials", etc) professionals do indeed think of their reputations. Overcharging one guy might mean some extra $$ in the bank this month, but in the long run, it is always bad business. And, whereas the car repair shop that overcharges for work might lose the customer for future business (and through word of mouth other potential customers), you have to remember one thing about the legal profession: attorneys can -- and do -- lose their license to practice law (e.g., their entire livelihood) if they engage in such practices.

In the long run, good car mechanics protect their reputation & have all the work they can handle; ditto for lawyers. They don't need to be unethical to extract $$ from a client -- they are already working 14 hour days servicing their growing list of clients. The tough part, of course, is finding that good attorney.

I agree it will not be inexpensive; you gotta pay for quality. The OP may pay more in legal fees than the farmer paid for the paid-up lease.

One other thing: I regularly reviewed legal bills to the corporation from which I recently retired. The type of legal work is completely different from this thread (it was all patent work: "prosecuting" patent applications through the USPTO and some patent licensing work). I'd look at the bill & the hours charged & the rates charged & I would regularly call up the billing partner & say "you're charging me 16 hours for a piece of research we both know should only take 10" and the partner would almost always agree with me & reduce the bill. (I was being reasonable -- not trying to screw the law firm). It is tough to do this, obviously, unless you have some direct knowledge of what a piece of work should cost in the first place.... but you can always ask & point out it costs too much. A reasonable, ethical attorney isn't going to try to screw you.

By the way... go ahead ... insert all the lawyer jokes you can think of right here.

I never said that the lawyers were dishonest. What I said is that it isn't in their best interest to settle this quickly. Most attorneys seem to move at snail pace most of the time. Part of the reason is the system that they work within, filing paperwork, and waiting for answers to the filings. Just like your example of being billed for 16 hours, for a job that should take 10. If they spent the 16 hours, then they should be paid for the 16 hours. How about the attorneys that bill for 1/4 hour for telephone calls, when the actual time might only be a minute or two. I have dealt with many attorneys in my lifetime, and I have told every one of them. I am paying you for your expertise, and the faster you get the matter resolved, the more that you are worth to me. Most times, I was able to negotiate a flat fee for services, and the services were performed in a timely manner. For an attorney to be disbarred, he has to do something that is dishonest, and working at a snails pace isn't grounds for disbarment. I will leave the lawyer jokes to you to post. I won't offend my friends with bad jokes about their chosen profession.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

OK, I'm catching up on the post.

I was on vacation for a week, fishing, drinking beer & more fishing, not thinking about this issue more than once a day.

Some really good stuff I will get into it more tomorrow, as I'm having company over today and have to catch up on all the yard work.

The property is in Michigan, we moved from Ohio and I had registered before moving, and I'll always be an Ohio guy and a Buckeye!

Our property is a perfect Rectangle 360' x 806' (I believe from memory) and the lease is 80 feet across the back and then 180' x 180' out of one corner (again from memory) so working the leased propery is actually more challenging than just doing the land behind the property as it adds another 2 corners to the field.

I have not heard anything from the Title Company's lawyer since he inquired how my conversation with the farmer went.

I will get the communications with the Title company together and get it to the one who offered to help.

The lease was drawn up by a local lawyer that lives and owns property about 1 mile west of us. I'm sure he has been made aware of what is going on but I have not heard anything from him on the issue.

I still have to meet with my lawyer for a second time as we could not find a date to meet prior to me going out of town on vacation.

As far as where my property is this is not questioned by anyone involved.

I will do some more reading and make sure I've answered all questions.

The main reason I'm calm about this, I know I'm not in the wrong, I just need to make sure everything gets handled correctly and I end up with what I paid for!

 

[ephotrod]

Updates?
Josh

 

[hblock72]

bump

Anything new?

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Meeting with the lawyer again next week.

Nothing new other than what has been discussed.

 

[Junkman]

Meeting with the lawyer again next week.

Nothing new other than what has been discussed.

Yours or the title company's???

 

[55dude]

this has been some really interesting reading. sounds like the services you pay for can fall short causing a person serious grief! i'm in the middle of selling some property and have been speaking back and forth with the title insurance company and have been documenting all of the discussions back and forth. keep in mind they are not giving away their services as it's in the thousands of dollars range and you would think this being their livelyhood they would have checked every corner at the courthouse. looks like i'm going to keep a eye on my title insurance company until ..... good luck!

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I will be meeting with my lawyer next week.

The Title Company's lawyer has not done anything, or contacted me, since asking me if the neighbor was willing to sell off the lease.

 

[tdkkart]

Your mortgage company(assuming you have one) needs to be involved in this also as they are not getting what they thought either.

The property was apparently assessed and appraised as 6 acres, and that's what the mortgage company takes their figures from. However if you bail on your mortgage, the lender may suddenly find out that they have what is not a "whole" property and may be unsaleable the next time.
This is why the lenders require the borrower to pay for an appraisal and title insurance, and should have asked for a survey also. I this case the lender needs to put some pressure on all of these folks as all of them are at least partially responsible for this problem going un-noticed.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Well here is the latest update.

Met with my lawyer this morning and devised this plan of action.

A) He will meet with farmers lawyer & probably the farmer to see if we can come to an acceptable buy out of the lease.
B) If that meeting results in a $ figure that will buy out the lease then that will be taken to the Title company to get them to settle with me for that amount and maybe my legal fees.
C) If that meeting does not result in a figure then it looks like the lease is going to stay and remain binding, not much options to break the lease, as it has no conditions to it. Time will tell

If this approach fails it will result in nothing less than filing a lawsuit against the Title Company for the value 2 acres. Which farm land in this area is worth $5000 - $5500 per acre.

I hope to hear from my lawyer next week on how the meeting with the farmer/lawyer went.

Further updates when I have them.

 

[tdkkart]

If this approach fails it will result in nothing less than filing a lawsuit against the Title Company for the value 2 acres. Which farm land in this area is worth $5000 - $5500 per acre.

Would this be considered farm land or residential land?? Is your lot part of a subdivision?? If so, the land is not farm land but rather residential, and at least in this area is worth substantially more than farm land.

 

[billspit]

Well your attorney should know, but if there are no penalties outlined in the lease, you should be able to break it for nothing. Whoever drew up the lease is a putz. Sure he can sue you, but would he? Couldn't you just pay him back the rent on a pro-rated rent for the years not used and be done?

 

[Brad54]

I know lawyers are supposed to be fighting for you, but in this case it sounds like you've got a lap dog rather than a pit bull on your side.

Seriously. The lawyer is saying "We'll do all the leg work, come to a solution with the farmer and present it to the people who screwed this up, ask them to settle and MAYBE get your lawyer fees covered." I won't say what position he's negotiating to put you in, but he's not even trying to get you a reach around. You need a lawyer who is going to be fighting to get you in the "driver's seat" if you get my drift.
You were shafted here, and I would think you shouldn't have to be out any money to cover someone else's legal responsibilities. I'd shop for another lawyer.
I learned that lesson when I sold my house in Florida--the real estate agent came in and said "This is what houses are going for in your area, this is what we can get for yours, and I've got a great track record of closing deals in a month to six weeks." Her face went blank when I said "No, we're not listing it for $83K, we're listing it for $103K." With the difference between asking price and selling price usually a few thousand dollars, at her professional estimate we could have gotten less than $80K for the starter home. When it sold, I got my full asking price.
My brother and sister-in-law had the exact same deal: they owned several acres with a horse pasture and barn. They interviewed five (FIVE!) real estate agents until they found a sixth that said "Yes, with the pasture and barn, your house is worth much more than all your neighbors, who have neither a pasture or a barn." The first five said the barn didn't count for anything, and the extra land was only worth what unimproved land in the surrounding area was worth. They cleared $150K MORE than what the other 5 agents wanted to list their house at.
I would seriously sit down with a couple more lawyers and see what they say.
And again, if there are no terms or conditions on the lease, honest to God, what's the farmer going to do if you erect a fence in the middle of the night? Really and truly...he could sue you, and could probably sue you for lost income on the property, which is what the title company should be willing to pay anyway.

If the farmer refuses to settle, I'd plant a couple dozen 2-foot lengths of rebar with 8-inch nails welded to them like Jacks, about every hundred yards, 6 inches under the dirt. If he won't settle for fair value of future crops, he's a *******.

And furthermore, you're tract of land is worth more than the sum of its parts. A 4 acre tract with improvements isn't worth as much as a 6 acre tract with improvements. I'd file a lawsuit against the title company for the entire value of your property, and work down from there.

-Brad

 

[jay50]

Find you another lawyer; one that has some balls and eats raw meat, 3 times a day. The one you got sounds like one of those 1-800 lawyers that advertise on TV...They always settle your case, but not in your best interest....

 

[dfrace]

If you are a reasonable person with a reasonable claim (And it seems like both criteria are met here), the difference between winning and losing is the attorney you pick. I have been down that road with bad ones, and I can tell you the peace of mind that comes with having one that actually takes your side is worth gold. And the kicker in my case, the good one is charging less and working quicker than the last 2 I tried.

Don't be afraid to shop around.

 

[toxicz28]

Which farm land in this area is worth $5000 - $5500 per acre.

And what is a 2 acre building lot valued at? Because that's what it is, not 2 acres of farmland.

 

[aarosco]

make the land un-plantable. Like build a 2 acre pond there.

 

[ddawg16]

Take no prisoners............

Once again....do some research.....what does the guy really want.....why are those two acres so important? Talk to people in town......

 

[55dude]

just some heads up: you say that you don't want to be the "bad" neighbor" yet if it was me and somebody was holding my property hostage i would have no problem being the bad guy because in the end if/when you regain control of your property their will be hard feelings you can count on it. don't give up!

 

[toxicz28]

make the land un-plantable.

good idea
http://www.epinions.com/reviews/Ortho_GroundClear_Triox_Total_Vegetation_Killer

 

[Hades12]

If the farmer refuses to settle, I'd plant a couple dozen 2-foot lengths of rebar with 8-inch nails welded to them like Jacks, about every hundred yards, 6 inches under the dirt. If he won't settle for fair value of future crops, he's a *******.

-Brad

I would help the Farmer Kick Your *** for doing this.

A fence in the way would be fine, but to try and hurt his equipment on purpose could get you killed in this area.



Your fight is not with the farmer, it is with the title company, Closing Lawyer, and Last owner, the farmer is in the right if he has a good contract on the land.

 

[Coach James]

I would second not seeding the ground with rebar etc. This isn't worth destroying thousands of dollars of equipment and/or getting someone hurt. The farmer hasn't broken the law and this agreement was made before you bought the land. If I was the farmer, I would probably work out a deal but some people just figure they have a contract and that's the end of it. My main gripe would be with the previous owner and title company.

Coach

 

[Jaguar Fan]

...C) If that meeting does not result in a figure then it looks like the lease is going to stay and remain binding, not much options to break the lease, as it has no conditions to it...

Ok, the lease doesn't have a liquidated damages clause. I'm not sure why your attorney would then say "... not much options to break the lease..."

 

[Brad54]

Yeah, you guys are right...seeding the land with rebar and spikes is NOT a good idea.
I'm upset about this whole situation, and I don't even know the guy!

I hate it when good people get screwed. And the property owner has been screwed.

And while the farmer may be legally right, he certainly isn't doing the right thing. He isn't being a good neighbor, and he's not being a good person--even if he does have a contract.

If I were in a similar situation as the farmer, and someone was going to stroke a check to me for the amount of crops I expected to take off that land for the next 26 years?! And I didn't have to do a thing for it?!?!?!?! Who would NOT take that deal? It's all upside for the farmer, but he's sticking to his guns and wants to stay on the land. When you keep putting the screws to somebody when you have the option of getting what you want (in this case, he wants money, and plants the crops to get it), you're a bad guy.

-Brad

 

[Woodsrider]

Some of the replies here are borderline ridiculous.
The farmer didn't say ****-all to you when you confronted him about the land. He waited until it was planted and you had contacted him a few times about it. He knew what he was doing. He is being the jerk and 'bad neighbor'. If he was any kind of 'good neighbor', he would have pointed out the fact he has a lease right at the beginning when you asked him not to till it. I wouldn't hesitate to point this out to him the next time you see him.

Your lawyer is an idiot. Get a new one. He is right, there is nothing in the lease about breaking it, so go ahead and do it. And since there is no wording about ramification about breaking it, no court would award him anything more than what he originally paid. Especially if you offer to let him get his crops off.

And get a refund from the Title company. They charged you for services NOT rendered.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I'm taking the high road on this and yes I agree the farmer is being an *** for not settling. He is in the legal right and I have no arguement with that, just that if someone is willing to work with you on settling something you should atleast set down and discuss it. That is what our Lawyers will do hopefully this week.

Yes the Title company is completely at fault, the previous owner who we bought the property from was Fannie Mae as it was a forclosure and they pretty much release all liability to the land with the documentation they issued at closing. Not that they won't be involved if this goes to court, but at this stage Fannie Mae is not on my hit list just the Title Company.

The Title Company is 100% at fault in the situation, the farmer and I are just the ones who have to try and resolve it as the title company is not trying to hard if at all to get it resolved.

Therefore me hiring my own laywer to get it resolved. We are taking this approach as it is the most cost effective approach, if it works great and I get out of it for the least amount of money needed. If I was to start filing suits against everyone that does not gaurantee a resolution only more money out of my pocket faster. If it gets to that point fine, but we will resolve it the "easier" way first if possible.

Don't worry, I grew up on a farm and I'm not about to plant spikes into the field or damage anything the farmer owns including his crops on the property.

 

[UnionWelder]

bump please

 

[ovilla]

I'd break the lease and start building your garage (or a fence) on YOUR land. Then you'll find out how "friendly" the farmer really is. At least then he'll cough up a number that he feels truly compensates him for these fricken TWO tiny acres (out of the thousand or so that he farms). I still don't get why he's so hung up on these two acres, especially when you've already asked him to give you a number. No matter how you look at this, he's putting you in a position in which you can't build or even sell this land now.

Let him take you to court. At least your case would be heard in court, and hopefully all of the other "parties" would want to avoid further legal issues/fees and want to simply get this matter settled out of court. I really do think that you're going to lose the small town friendship with the farmer in the end so there's nothing to save here except your land. Sorry, this situation really pisses me off. I hate seeing this type of injustice.

 

[CalGeo]

Hey NWOhioChevyGuy,

I'm bowing in late on this and I want to preface my comments by saying I am not a lawyer but I am a CPA who works in a real estate law office.

I had one of our attorneys look at the lease language and he laughed at it. He said technically the lease does transfer from owner to owner but you have a very strong case to break this lease. Since there is no termination clause you would have to refer to your state/county laws with respect to what actions would need to be taken and what, if any, damages would need to be paid to the farmer.

If I read and remember correctly, Fidelity was suggesting compensating you for the 2 acres. My attorney said, although he's not sure of Michigan laws, but in Florida money can not cure the issue because of the uniquess of land. He said you are the land owner, so the only way to correct the issue is to return the rights to your 2 acres to you. The only way to do that is to buy out the farmer or break the lease.

Do not accept any soulution that involves Fidelity compensating you. Fidelity should be contacting the Farmer and making him aware that they intend to break the lease and determine what his buy out number is. There is absolutely no reason they should ask you to try and get this information from the farmer and then tell you that you do not speak on their behalf.

We are in Jacksonville and do a lot of work with their corporate office. If you need further assistance. Shoot me an email and give me the names of Fidelity employees that have contacted you and their communications to you. I can't make any promisses but I can try to get the issue into the right hands.

No matter how you view the farmer...he is not your friend and probably will not be after this gets resolved.

Kevin

I hope you haven't forgotten this offer!


I have watched this one for a while and am amazed at what people will do to other people. You are following the right path, but you have this offer to help, I would take it. Good luck!

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I have not forgotten about that offer from Slicktoptt, we have exchanged a couple private messages nothing yet on that front.


I have hired a lawyer and he talked to the farmers lawyer and he then talked to the farmer. No numbers came out of that conversation, even when they were hypothetically throwing around $10K, $20K, & $100K.

The next meeting with my lawyer will be further discussion on what will happen if they do not sell back the lease or settle.

The Title company has done nothing, with the exception of the couple communications with me via email! They will be notified by my lawyer of the status of the situation after our next meeting.

Slow and steady will hopefully win the race, nothing will settle this other than my 2 acres being back in my control and use!

 

[55dude]

i really would wonder what is so important about the 2 acres to the farmer? i would have your lawyer ask him to sign a deposition as to the importance of having this property. is their any laws that can grandfather somebody to property after x amount of years of use? their is a snake in the grass somewhere.

 

[jay50]

I'd break the lease and start building your garage (or a fence) on YOUR land. Then you'll find out how "friendly" the farmer really is. At least then he'll cough up a number that he feels truly compensates him for these fricken TWO tiny acres (out of the thousand or so that he farms). I still don't get why he's so hung up on these two acres, especially when you've already asked him to give you a number. No matter how you look at this, he's putting you in a position in which you can't build or even sell this land now.

Let him take you to court. At least your case would be heard in court, and hopefully all of the other "parties" would want to avoid further legal issues/fees and want to simply get this matter settled out of court. I really do think that you're going to lose the small town friendship with the farmer in the end so there's nothing to save here except your land. Sorry, this situation really pisses me off. I hate seeing this type of injustice.

Just wondering if a "mysterious" crop failure on those two acres would expedite the settlement of this...

 

[UnionWelder]

I know this has been said but man you are way to nice to someone who doesnt give a **** about you at all. what is two acres? I would give him two choices, Take money offered still be good neighbors. Or harvest what he has planted this year and starting next year anything planted on MY land lease or not will be plowed up and we will be feuding neighbors. Give him the option and let him pick which he wants.

 

[Junkman]

I know this has been said but man you are way to nice to someone who doesnt give a **** about you at all. what is two acres? I would give him two choices, Take money offered still be good neighbors. Or harvest what he has planted this year and starting next year anything planted on MY land lease or not will be plowed up and we will be feuding neighbors. Give him the option and let him pick which he wants.

Is this the way that law abiding civilized people act where you live?

 

[Brad54]

Is this the way that law abiding civilized people act where you live?

Probably not...but that IS the way Karma works in a lot of places.

-Brad