whats all the fuss about sockets?

[ddo]

Kinda wondering if its worth investing in top dollar stuff. I go for premium german or american made stuff with ratchets, pliers and screwdrivers and the like. With sockets i just have usa craftsman.

Am i missing out on anything with this approach besides the finish and feel of quality? Ive never rounded a bolthead with the right sized socket - usa chinese or otherwise. Is it more of a car thing for when theres not much clearance to have specialty sockets? What does a snap on have that low grade sockets don't?

If im going to invest in top quality sockets what should i look for besides a nice finish and a brand name?

 

[Conductor562]

Snap-On, Matco, Proto, etc. might have a little bit better fit on the fastener in some cases, and they might be a little better steel, but if the Craftsman's are working for you there really isn't a reason to change unless you just want to.

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

it all about the manufacture's tolerance.

another reason why I will never buy Craftsman small torx/hex screwdrivers.

 

[Douglas733]

Why do you single out craftsmans torx Hex - I am getting ready to buy a set from Mac and was just interested in what your thoughts were on Craftsmans hex/torx was actually considering them also.

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

it's from my personal experience.

I needed t-6 driver for my spyderco knife. so I figure craftsman t-6 driver will do the job just fine.

boy I was wrong, I manage to strip every bolts. then I bought wiha t-6 driver. I was very impressed with the fitment. craftsman had a lot of play on the tip compare to wiha. wiha had very tight fit on the screw. I threw away craftsman and never looked back.

 

[CWP1616L]

If im going to invest in top quality sockets what should i look for besides a nice finish and a brand name?

Look for good quality detents and a good fit between the square drive and the extension.

 

[tweedlestan]

Look for good quality detents and a good fit between the square drive and the extension.

Merk speaks the truth.

 

[dirtydogintex]

CM hex have been ok
torx is hit n miss like most
6 & 12 pt sockets chrome and impact are ok except for chrome deeps - they're pretty easy to crack when I'm too ________ to use a impact deep when breaking things loose.

Rumor has it higher price tool truck deeps don't have this prob nearly as often.
Suppose I'll check it out one year if someone else doesn't do/publicize trials....

 

[mailpup]

When you experience a loose torx fit, any chance the fastener is a torx plus instead?

 

[sberry]

There are cases where something else is better but in todays world I would use what I had if it worked, replace or aguire as needed. You can buy 3/4 of this stuff at a Walmart anymore for 15$ a set and it works good, open 24 hrs a day. There is even a time policy I believe, if you walk out the door, come back soon they will instore replace.

Cheap stuff has some higher defect rate but its getting more competitive and better all the time. Went in to a Sears last night, just looked, for 5$ more than rock bottom get 10 more sockets and extension with that little evolve set for 15$ That stuff iss good and hard to beat, I got no idea how much a 22 pc truck set costs but I bet you dont get a single socket for 15$.

I still did see the set of old,, a 40 pc set 3/8 drive and it is now 10$, whicj considering 30 yrs later still a deal but its junk, not worth carrying around but that 22 pc thing is a deal at 15 This is a small store in a Kmart in a ****** town but in gteneral today wouldnt buy anything I couldnt get off the shelf and while warranty sounds great I am a big who cares, lost a wrench out of a set a while back and havnt really broken but a few minor sockets, not worth the worry, replace for 3$ and if I was stranded again full replacement set 24 hrs for 18$.

 

[dirtydogintex]

When you experience a loose torx fit, any chance the fastener is a torx plus instead?

Yes - a very good chance.
In addition, I'm thinking many bits are actually on/over the large side of mfg tolerances.... hence the bits are said to be high quality because they fit 'tightly'.... and cost a lot of $$ from a land far away.

'Course one can cram a 6mm hex bit into a 5.5mm socket too!! *L*

 

[KinzeMech]

When you experience a loose torx fit, any chance the fastener is a torx plus instead?

Torx plus wouldn't allow insertion of a torx tool to a depth sufficient to strip out the fastener.

Torx plus is seriously annoying though.

 

[shocksandstrutz]

i think if you are a mechanic by trade, then the truck is sought after for reliability, service and you dont have to leave to exchange on your own time....the truck come to you.....for the DIY guy..or gal....cmans should be fine, or whatever brand you are happy purchasing with your money and what makes you happy to see when you open your toolbox.....thats how im rolling....cmans all the way, look good, feel good, work good and pretty good to my wallet

 

[CNGsaves]

i think if you are a mechanic by trade, then the truck is sought after for reliability, service and you dont have to leave to exchange on your own time....the truck come to you.....for the DIY guy..or gal....cmans should be fine, or whatever brand you are happy purchasing with your money and what makes you happy to see when you open your toolbox.....thats how im rolling....cmans all the way, look good, feel good, work good and pretty good to my wallet

^^^ This explains WHY someone would buy SnapOn or Matco tools or boxes at exhorbinant prices. First, professional tech is making good money and can afford it, and Second the truck comes right to business and provides top quality tools that the business needs. You'll likely never see the day that Harbor Freight van is allowed to pull up to Porsche dealership and sell HF tools to the techs working there!!

Snappy/Matco salesman are getting paid to be resource to the tech, providing specific tools that help the tech make money. Snappy tools are the Bentley/Lambo of tools, while CM are the Chevy's.

 

[ajchien]

I only have a few gripes about my CM sockets. First is the 5/8, 3/8 drive deep socket. It's too small, it dosent fit. SO, SK, Sunex fit. The 5/8 CM shallow fits. I had to tap with a hammer to get the deep CM on. I warrantied it. The replacement is the same, too tight. Same thing with my 5/8, 6 point wrench. Other brands fit. Thanksfully its a near never used size for me.

Also, Ive warrantied my 1/4-1/4 drive deep socket twice because Ive worn down the 6 point hex on the inside. It rounds out with use. Would a different brand fares better? Dont know. Ive got a SK 1/4-1/4 drive that seems to be holding up.

Ive got hundreds of CM sockets. Overall quite happy.

 

[dirtmister16]

ive had Craftsman sockets since i was a kid and dad's had his longer. im only 25, but ive never broken a socket of any kind yet. even when i worked as a mechanic at the local small engine shop the majority of our tools were craftsman, didn't break any sockets. did wear out a 1/4" ratchet though, but thats use.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Kinda wondering if its worth investing in top dollar stuff. I go for premium german or american made stuff with ratchets, pliers and screwdrivers and the like. With sockets i just have usa craftsman.

Is it worth investing in top dollar stuff...it depends. I wouldnt go 1 cent in debt to do it, put it that way...All my tools are cash on the barrel head. Always will be.
While I've gone this far with a mix of tools...Mostly CMan, Some SnapOn and Some MAC...I can tell you that I'm all done with CMan completely. I dont care about COO...so thats not a factor in my decision making. Cman of today isnt CMan of yesteryear when I started. Either the competition was not as good or CMan quality has gone to junk. I'd say its both.

If I were starting out today, I'd go with Kobalt chrome stuff...IMO the Ratchets, Sockets, extensions etc are all great quality for the price...and as you break stuff or what have you, replace with a SnapOn or MAC...easier to swallow a couple bucks here and there then it is to start from scratch thousands of bucks in the hole.

As someone else on here has said, a fastener doesnt know if your using a HF 13mm or a SnapOn 13mm wrench...both will get the job done, but you will love using your Snappy much more then an HF.

 

[donnykooy]

if ur not a professional than i think craftsman work fine...u got a lifetime warrenty. the only time i have seen a craftsman socket break is when it was used as an impact socket....use them correctly on they will do just fine...just make sure it is american made...dont buy craftsman chinese stuff

 

[dirtydogintex]

If I were starting out today, I'd go with Kobalt chrome stuff...IMO the Ratchets, Sockets, extensions etc are all great quality for the price...and as you break stuff or what have you, replace with a SnapOn or MAC...easier to swallow a couple bucks here and there then it is to start from scratch thousands of bucks in the hole.

Were you thinking of the Kobalt/Williams era?
If so isn't Williams good enough to be warrantied w/more Williams?
After all isn't it essentially rebadged SO stuff?

...
As someone else on here has said, a fastener doesnt know if your using a HF 13mm or a SnapOn 13mm wrench...

yep

both will get the job done, but you will love using your Snappy much more then an HF.

until one starts to calculate the cost of Snappy love!! *L*

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Were you thinking of the Kobalt/Williams era?
If so isn't Williams good enough to be warrantied w/more Williams?
After all isn't it essentially rebadged SO stuff?

I was actually thinkin current Kobalt stuff...got my first Kobalt socket 2 months ago. my CMan 1/2" Drive, 12pt, Std 17mm cracked...They shut down the local sears here, so I got screwed with no service/warranty. So I bought a Kobalt to replace it while I drove around for the last 2 months with a broken socket in my cupholder. last Thursday I'm driving by a sears...swing by, and of course they have no 17mm Shallow's in stock...so they swapped it out with a deep. Most of the allure of Sears/Craftsman was excellent service and warranty. Not anymore.

until one starts to calculate the cost of Snappy love!! *L*

IMO The truck brands really arent as bad as many people make them out to be..they are just good quality tools. AND its a business model really geared towards customer service and support. If you just cold call a dealer out of the blue, expect to pay MSRP...but if you forge a relationship its really not hard to get discounts, specials, and "favors"... I know there are alot of MAC haters here at GJ, but I for one can not and will not say a single bad word about my MAC guy...and in turn, I plan on a whole lot more MAC tools in my future.

 

[purpurite]

Caveat: home and hobby mechanic when life and wife allow. I wrench for fun and not for career.

When I was a kid, my dad bought me a silver Craftsman tool box and a starter tool set. I still have many pieces from that original set.

When I got older, I built my tool collection up with mostly Craftsman items when they were needed, and filled in holes and gaps as I went. The Sears was always close, usually open and they had everything I ever needed.

As I have matured, I have a mostly complete set of Craftsman deep and shallow SAE and metric sockets—some were original pieces that I got as a kid, some were purchased as recently as last year. I can say that I have noticed a drop-off in tolerances and quality, especially in the finish and fit of newer sockets. I didn't spend a lot on them, but I can't say that I'm happy to own a lot of it now, either. I have often picked up a Craftsman "made in USA" socket and have been disappointed in the fit on a ratchet, extension or a bolt head.

I play with tools. I play with cars. I generally enjoy having nice things to play with. As I can afford it, I buy much nicer quality (and a lot more expensive) European tool brands like Hazet, Gedore, Stahlwille, NWS, Felo, Wera, PB Swiss and others. It makes me happy to own nice tools. I appreciate the craftsmanship in the manufacturing of these tools. I'm happy opening the drawers of my tool chests to see these tools. Do I need them? No. Do I want them? Every last one of them.


If I could afford it, I would replace every single Craftsman socket with an equivalent Hazet or Gedore. But I can't, so my eclectic Craftsman socket collection will continue to take apart and fix my cars and home projects.

If your tools are part of your hobby or career, and you enjoy having nice tools, and you can afford to have nice tools, by all means, buy the best you can afford. If not, then Craftsman, Kobalt and Husky are honestly very good alternatives.

 

[TangoFoxTrot]

My issue with the idea that only expensive sockets can have the "right" tolerances is, how do you then explain the tolerances on a 10 cent fastener? If it was so hard to make the "right" size socket consistently, wouldn't fastener tolerances also be wrong from bolt to bolt?

That logic contradicts itself.

So only a $30 socket can properly fit a 10 cent bolt head, because someone can manufacture a consistent, perfectly sized bolt head for 10 cents but it's absolutely impossible to properly make a socket that perfectly fits a 10 cent fastener for under $30? Does anyone else see that paradox?

 

[GIJoe4500]

I have owned a ton of craftsman tools over the years. That use to be the primary tool company I purchased. But now, I find myself scouring pawn shops for used Proto, Snap-On, etc. My issue with the Craftsman stuff isn't the fit. Almost every single one of my Craftsman sockets is rusting down the inside of them, whereas my other random tools, even some cheaper quality stuff, isn't doing that. They all still work fine, but it is a nuissance, and something I would really like to avoid.

I still have a lot of craftsman stuff, and am not getting rid of any of it, but as I get better tools, I am slowly replacing the craftsman stuff in my primary socket set, and bumping it down to my backup set (in case I misplace a socket, need to "modify" a socket, or need to take some with me on an offroading trip)

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

When you experience a loose torx fit, any chance the fastener is a torx plus instead?

No, spyderco knives don't use torx plus.

 

[richfinn]

1/4 I like Snap-On sockets as the walls are thinner (but still strong).

3/8 I like a decent brand like Snappy/Mac/Older Britool

1/2 and impacts I will use any old **** that I can buy cheap (I dont use them very often)

 

[hifi_hokie]

So only a $30 socket can properly fit a 10 cent bolt head, because someone can manufacture a consistent, perfectly sized bolt head for 10 cents but it's absolutely impossible to properly make a socket that perfectly fits a 10 cent fastener for under $30? Does anyone else see that paradox?

I'd bet the economies of scale aren't similar for the socket vs. the bolt.

 

[cammok5]

My issue with the idea that only expensive sockets can have the "right" tolerances is, how do you then explain the tolerances on a 10 cent fastener? If it was so hard to make the "right" size socket consistently, wouldn't fastener tolerances also be wrong from bolt to bolt?

That logic contradicts itself.

So only a $30 socket can properly fit a 10 cent bolt head, because someone can manufacture a consistent, perfectly sized bolt head for 10 cents but it's absolutely impossible to properly make a socket that perfectly fits a 10 cent fastener for under $30? Does anyone else see that paradox?

i have thought the same thing. every one says you need qulity made in usa tools but what are you working on? overseas imports most of the time?

 

[pipsters]

My issue with the idea that only expensive sockets can have the "right" tolerances is, how do you then explain the tolerances on a 10 cent fastener? If it was so hard to make the "right" size socket consistently, wouldn't fastener tolerances also be wrong from bolt to bolt?

That logic contradicts itself.

So only a $30 socket can properly fit a 10 cent bolt head, because someone can manufacture a consistent, perfectly sized bolt head for 10 cents but it's absolutely impossible to properly make a socket that perfectly fits a 10 cent fastener for under $30? Does anyone else see that paradox?

You're exactly right. My less expensive Craftsman sockets have tighter tolerances than my expensive SK sockets.

People talk out their *** a lot on this forum.

FWIW a typical 14mm bolt will measure 13.85-13.90 mm across.

 

[chrisbooth08]

My experience with Kobalt is a sore topic. Not sure how they warranty the tools but if its anything like the compressors i'd be worried. Bought a 30G 5hp Kobalt compressor to keep in the basement workshop and it crapped out in 5 weeks from purchase. Took it back to the same Lowes I purchased and was told it wasn't under warranty. Was my first and last Kobalt purchase of any kind.

 

[pipsters]

No, spyderco knives don't use torx plus.

From the looks of the imagine they don't use torx either LOL, no wonder he bad mouthed the Craftsman torx...this is why I don't listen to people on the internet...

 

[sberry]

Cman of today isnt CMan of yesteryear when I started. Either the competition was not as good or CMan quality has gone to junk. I'd say its both.

I will agree with your assesment of the quality situation, absolutely no doubt it isnt the same tool but its so much cheaper now, thats what makes it such a deal. If you were paying 10$ a set Cman is junk but for a buck a pop in sets with lots of big wrenches sockets etc its hard to beat. Throw in a few things a guy uses, no one says you cant refine or add a few things but at these prices a guy could come up to speed in a hurry.

Got a couple friends that bought some of those blow cases sets of a few things, ideal in her situation. I can open a box find a socket and tighten a bolt without having to bring something etc works great.

I have a load of Cman, over the years, some I inhereit, bought lots over 30 yrs, have a half a dozen sets of general hard lines, I bought a set in about 80or so, the biggest one they had, cost 3500 or so at the time. I had walked on the truck a couple times, I already had a few things here and there but pissed my pants when I priced a few things and could see 15K not putting a dent in it and I wanted to gear up then, fast, didnt want to collect at the time so 3500 plus a couple boxes looked pretty good. Think I went to the bank. It had big everything, 3/4 taps dies, 3/4 sockets to 2 3/8, big wrenches in both flavors, all the sockets full spectrum.

There must have been a period of 10 yrs some sockets broke when new out of box, the ones that didnt fail early all but,,, maybe half a dozen out of 500 or so. Yes, have stripped a couple 5 16 and a 1/4 or 2, never any more, have found other options not used as not intended or bought a couple extra etc.

I have often thought about how much stuff a guy could get with a grand with careful shopping. Between Walmart, Cman, HF. It takes about 20 socket sets not including 3/4 in both flavors, but lets say automotive etc. At discount cheap most not more than 20$ and a few could be had for less, less complete but maybe ok, fill it easy for 400, stuffed for 5, wrenches about half a dozen sets, even tossing in a vise grip or 2, a channelok, a couple adjustables, a couple hammers a guy could be quite the warrior. I could make a living with it easy.

 

[rhastings80]

I have to agree with you. I think it's insane what the truck prices are on tools. 590 bucks for a general service set from Snap-on come on + tax. I don't see how the average tech can afford those prices. I know they have credit but it just seems crazy. I like Snap-on and do think it's the best quality but my rule of thumb is I want 75% off when looking on CL or I'm not interested. I just wonder how much more they can raise prices. There must be a breaking point.

100 bucks retail:
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-48-pc-1-4-in-drive-socket-module/p-00934270000P

590 bucks retail:
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=674757&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Guess for an extra 490 bucks you get the best and made in USA but...

There are cases where something else is better but in todays world I would use what I had if it worked, replace or aguire as needed. You can buy 3/4 of this stuff at a Walmart anymore for 15$ a set and it works good, open 24 hrs a day. There is even a time policy I believe, if you walk out the door, come back soon they will instore replace.

Cheap stuff has some higher defect rate but its getting more competitive and better all the time. Went in to a Sears last night, just looked, for 5$ more than rock bottom get 10 more sockets and extension with that little evolve set for 15$ That stuff iss good and hard to beat, I got no idea how much a 22 pc truck set costs but I bet you dont get a single socket for 15$.

I still did see the set of old,, a 40 pc set 3/8 drive and it is now 10$, whicj considering 30 yrs later still a deal but its junk, not worth carrying around but that 22 pc thing is a deal at 15 This is a small store in a Kmart in a ****** town but in gteneral today wouldnt buy anything I couldnt get off the shelf and while warranty sounds great I am a big who cares, lost a wrench out of a set a while back and havnt really broken but a few minor sockets, not worth the worry, replace for 3$ and if I was stranded again full replacement set 24 hrs for 18$.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I have to agree with you. I think it's insane what the truck prices are on tools. 590 bucks for a general service set from Snap-on come on + tax. I don't see how the average tech can afford those prices.

Not saying its "Considerably Cheaper" by any stretch of the imagination, but all the truck brands have great sale flyers...ironic that CMan rarely if ever goes on sale anymore...so if your not in a rush and you can wait and get only tools on sale when you can afford it...little here, little there..next thing you know you got a box full of Truck brand tools.

AND...while I dont make my living turning wrenches, as I mentioned earlier, they closed my Sears...makes having a truck around that much better. I know every wednesday he'll be across the road. Better then driving 40 miles to hit sears.

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

From the looks of the imagine they don't use torx either LOL, no wonder he bad mouthed the Craftsman torx...this is why I don't listen to people on the internet...

You clearly don't know about spyderco knives.

I would not use Craftsman torx screwdrivers, even if it was given to me for free.

 

[MG44]

Kinda wondering if its worth investing in top dollar stuff. I go for premium german or american made stuff with ratchets, pliers and screwdrivers and the like. With sockets i just have usa craftsman.

Am i missing out on anything with this approach besides the finish and feel of quality? Ive never rounded a bolthead with the right sized socket - usa chinese or otherwise. Is it more of a car thing for when theres not much clearance to have specialty sockets? What does a snap on have that low grade sockets don't?

If im going to invest in top quality sockets what should i look for besides a nice finish and a brand name?

Its just tool jewelry. I am the same, I won't invest big dollars in sockets for the most part.

When I opened up my new shop, I bought new craftsman sockets in all sizes and depths. I have a set of metric 1/2 impact in shallow and deep. Other then that I use all chromes. On my 3/8 guns (very powerful) I only use chrome craftsman sockets, never once had a break, shatter, or damaged socket/bolt from this. Even on my 1/2 gun I have a few metric chromes I use because my impact sockets either grew legs and walked away or the sets skipped.

Every once in a while I will wipe down my sockets with a towel or hit them with some brake cleaner. Generally I am to busy working to worry about it, unless I am working inside a transmission or engine and they are just too slippery to handle.

Some of my mechanics have impact and chrome sets of both, waste of money to me.

 

[MG44]

I have to agree with you. I think it's insane what the truck prices are on tools. 590 bucks for a general service set from Snap-on come on + tax. I don't see how the average tech can afford those prices. I know they have credit but it just seems crazy. I like Snap-on and do think it's the best quality but my rule of thumb is I want 75% off when looking on CL or I'm not interested.

Thats the thing, most mechanics can't afford the tools. That is why they are on a truck account making payments everyday. Think about all of the mechanics you know, do you know many that are really living the high life? I bet not many.

At my shop I have two SnapOn Solus scanners for the techs to use. I had a tech spend $3800 on one for himself a few months ago, and all I have heard about the last week (we have been slow) is his pay. Sorry Johnny, its not your pay, its your spending. Why would you spend $3800 for a tool at work that is already there for you to use? Tool man talked him into it, said it would speed him up and make him more money. Ok Johnny, talk to me in 6 years when you have finally recouped the cost of the scanner in terms of labor minutes.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

My issue with the idea that only expensive sockets can have the "right" tolerances is, how do you then explain the tolerances on a 10 cent fastener? If it was so hard to make the "right" size socket consistently, wouldn't fastener tolerances also be wrong from bolt to bolt?

That logic contradicts itself.

So only a $30 socket can properly fit a 10 cent bolt head, because someone can manufacture a consistent, perfectly sized bolt head for 10 cents but it's absolutely impossible to properly make a socket that perfectly fits a 10 cent fastener for under $30? Does anyone else see that paradox?

In the fantasy world where every truck-brand tool is better than every non-truck-brand tool, each and every fastener is exactly the same every single time.

In the real world, there's such a huge variance in the tolerances of hardware that there's an equal chance a $1 Chinese wrench will fit a bolt better than its $45 Snap-on counterpart. Course, you can't tell that to the guy who just spent $45 on a wrench, because it'll upset his feelings.

On the subject of sockets, I've got a full Craftsman chrome set I've been beating the hell out of for going on 13 or 14 years now. The only problem I have with any of them - 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 - is that the 5/8" deep-well 3/8" drive has some flaking chrome at the end. Probably because it sees as much use by itself as a full half of the rest of the 3/8" set. I'd put my <insert truck-guy insults here> Craftsman sockets up against anything Snap-on, Gedore, or Hazet makes.

If I were buying things brand-new now? SK. Craftsman warranty isn't worth a piss-soaked damn now that everything is imported from Chicom land, so on the off chance that I break something, guess what I get? Chicom junk. SK makes truck-quality tools, good prices, reasonably good availability.

 

[donnykooy]

im never giving my craftsman stuff either...try soaking those rusty craftsman tools in a rubber container full rust stain remover...they will look brand new

 

[dsmnickk90]

In the fantasy world where every truck-brand tool is better than every non-truck-brand tool, each and every fastener is exactly the same every single time.

In the real world, there's such a huge variance in the tolerances of hardware that there's an equal chance a $1 Chinese wrench will fit a bolt better than its $45 Snap-on counterpart. Course, you can't tell that to the guy who just spent $45 on a wrench, because it'll upset his feelings.

On the subject of sockets, I've got a full Craftsman chrome set I've been beating the hell out of for going on 13 or 14 years now. The only problem I have with any of them - 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 - is that the 5/8" deep-well 3/8" drive has some flaking chrome at the end. Probably because it sees as much use by itself as a full half of the rest of the 3/8" set. I'd put my <insert truck-guy insults here> Craftsman sockets up against anything Snap-on, Gedore, or Hazet makes.

If I were buying things brand-new now? SK. Craftsman warranty isn't worth a piss-soaked damn now that everything is imported from Chicom land, so on the off chance that I break something, guess what I get? Chicom junk. SK makes truck-quality tools, good prices, reasonably good availability.

I'm sticking with Armstrong and SK as well. If i never to warranty any Craftsman I will be getting a refund and replacing it with Armstrong or SK

 

[rhastings80]

I'm sticking with Armstrong and SK as well. If i never to warranty any Craftsman I will be getting a refund and replacing it with Armstrong or SK

The Armstrong and Craftsman sockets look identical to me. At least the more recent made in USA Craftsman before they moved to China. Pretty sure they were made at the same Apex/Danaher plant. They sure look like it even down to the detents. You may want to check out this thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50681