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Fork lift propane regulators are freezing over...!

kevin47

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This suddenly started happening...Driving around in my Toyota fork lift and it stalls...Open it up and the two propane regulators are "frosty" and it won't run 'till they thaw out...Then it will only run for a few minutes 'till they frost up again...What to do...? Are they shot...? Why so suddenly...? Any waY to fix them with out rebuild or replacement...? Thanks Guys...!

I have other Toyota question I'll have to run by you guys...Just did a complete brake job...including master cylinder...Now, my transmission slips and I can't go up hills...Wonder if the "bands" are adjustable...? Maybe I better start a separate "thread for that...Kevin The fork lift is a 1983...
 
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GlassAnkles

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vaporizer/regulator broke? since you say it worked before but just happened that narrows it down alot.

ive seen a ton of reasons for lines freezing on forklifts but those were just recently converted over machines.
 

king nero

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High flow reg's might help, but if they used to work like they should, you've probably got other problems...
 

Gert

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Couple of possibilities:

- check if there is enough coolant in the radiator. A part of the hot coolant will run through the vaporizer/regulator to prevent freezing. No coolant = freezing.

- but mostly the rubber membrane (inside the vaporizer/regulator) have a leak or a burst.

- another possibily is the small flat piece of spring-metal with a piece of rubber on it (don't know the english name) that seals a small hole (all inside the vaporizer/regulator). Check that the piece of rubber is intact. If it is not too much liquid will vaporize = freezing.

Let us know what you found.

Cheers!
 
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kevin47

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Thanks guys , I'll go out there today and check it out...Check coolant first..I noticed there on rad. cap on the thing..So much dirt has built out on the core that it will over heat in about 20 minutes of running/idling...And I do have to add coolant a lot...The tank of propane that's on it I've been using for awhile so it's probably no that...If the thing still freezes I'll have to open the regulators...

While I'm here...Anyone know if the transmission bands can be adjusted...? The place I'm moving to has a slight grade I know the lift won't climb...Thanks guys
 

Hyster Gareth

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What gas system are you running? Impco or an old Beam. They do freeze up and sometimes all it takes is to put some warm water over the regulator and let it idle do not accelerate until it is warming up .

As Gert pointed out make sure your cooling system is in good order. Also check for restrictions in your water hoses and air locks. Check the vapor valve lever and pad.
 

Ron Swanson

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Couple of possibilities:

- check if there is enough coolant in the radiator. A part of the hot coolant will run through the vaporizer/regulator to prevent freezing. No coolant = freezing.


+1
We have an old Clark at work that freezes up when the coolant level gets too low.
 

spotco2

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Transmission slipping = hook up gauges and check your pressures. You can adjust it out some, but you might be bypassing in the valve body somewhere. Fairly easy to rebuild if bypassing.

Might want to check that fluid level first.
 

smothers33

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the regulator freezing over is going to have to do with your coolant flow throught it. when the truck is at operating temp put your hand over the 2 coolant lines running through the regulator. they should be warm. if they arent then you have a flow problem and you need to check level in the rad and assuming thats good bleed the regulator. open up 1 side of the coolant hoses just enough to bleed the air out.

for your trans slipping theres whats called a inching spool(basically just a trans brake type deal) on the transmission that either has its own pedal or in yuor case most likely is part of the brake pedal. look on top of the valve body on trans and as you press the pedal up and down youll see the spool moving back and forth. more than likely when you changed the master cylinder somehow the linkage got out of whack and needs to be adjusted.

if you have any more issues or have questions about anything i said feel free to shoot me and pm and ill get back to you
 

mech-tech

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Yep, agree with everything everyone added. Check water level first, then if need be, a new vaporizer is around $95 your cost and easy to change. Aso for the transmission, the inching valve should be set to where if you take off the floorboard and start the machine, sitting in the seat place the truck into gear and listen to the engine speed. If set correctly, with the pedal all the way up you should have slight freeplay in the linkage, once you begin depressing the pedal, the valve spool on the transmission should begin moving, at which point the engine speed will begin to speed up because the transmission is beginning to be disenguaged. If the inching valve spool is not all the way released due to a lower pedal high from the brake job, it would cause the transmission to slip. Also, depress the pedal all the way, and slowly let it rise up, you should hear a noticable engine speed drop when the transmission begins to pull in gear. If no big drop in speed sound, then loosen adjustment at pedal.
 
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kevin47

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Okay, Radiator was low...But not much...Added some anti-freeze and every thing is fine with the regulators...The outside of the radiator is so clogged with dirt I need to blast it off...I don't want to over heat and the sending unit on the head is kapoot...Gauge isn't working...Any way to test it or should I just find another sending unit...?

I had the floor plate off looking at the transmission...There is some type of plunger thing is all I remember seeing...I think it might be hooked to the brake...I'll look again tomorrow...What ever it is, it looks like the previous owner put in a new one...It's a rod that goes into a rubber boot, that disappears into the top of the transmission ...There's a spring hooked to it...I did notice that this is a 1978 Toyota 3711 hours...Motor runs so smooth...One thing I do remember is the ****** slipped going uphill before it did the brake job, too. Oh, you know, if I hold the forward lever hard-forward, it works better...Kevin
 

smothers33

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Okay, Radiator was low...But not much...Added some anti-freeze and every thing is fine with the regulators...The outside of the radiator is so clogged with dirt I need to blast it off...I don't want to over heat and the sending unit on the head is kapoot...Gauge isn't working...Any way to test it or should I just find another sending unit...?

I had the floor plate off looking at the transmission...There is some type of plunger thing is all I remember seeing...I think it might be hooked to the brake...I'll look again tomorrow...What ever it is, it looks like the previous owner put in a new one...It's a rod that goes into a rubber boot, that disappears into the top of the transmission ...There's a spring hooked to it...I did notice that this is a 1978 Toyota 3711 hours...Motor runs so smooth...One thing I do remember is the ****** slipped going uphill before it did the brake job, too. Oh, you know, if I hold the forward lever hard-forward, it works better...Kevin

you can test the sending unit by doing a couple things. 1 make sure you have continuity between the sending unit and the gauge. if you got continuity then backprobe the sending unit with 1 of your leads on your meter and ground the other lead. im not sure exactly what voltage it should be i believe its either 12 or 5 but i could be wrong on that. basically just make sure have voltage and as the engine temp goes up the voltage should go up as well.

as for the trans that rod is more than likely your inching valve. first move the brake pedal up and down and see if its moving the rod your talking about. assuming it is make sure that when the brake pedal is released that the valve is completely released. unhook the linkage if you have to. if that valve is slightly depressed when the brake pedal is fully released then the trans will slip

but from what your saying now it seems more like the forward valve is not fully engaging. older trucks have manual linkages that engage the forward valve vs newer trucks that have electronic solenoids. id guess that the spring in the valve body that snaps the forward valve closed is probably weak. but just a guess. check for slop in the linkage from the handle to the valve on the valve body.

1 last thing that can really narrow this down rather quickly. does in slip in reverse. if yes than your inching valve is probably the culprit. if no than its probably somewhere in the forward/reverse linkage from handle to valve body.
 
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kevin47

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Okay, I was out working on it today...Slippage doesn't seem as bad as I originally thought...I was out "climbing hills" lol...

But, the freezing is back... It's the regulator with the hoses running to the thermostat...The hoses aren't getting warm...The radiator is plenty warm...I wonder if I'm having problems with the water pump...? I'll bring my infrared thermometer with me to the shop tomorrow...Sure looks like the radiator will have to come out to remove the water pump...Probably should be removed for cleaning anyway...Hope I don't need a new radiator...Seems like the water would still flow to the regulator even if the thermostat isn't opening...? Thanks, Kevin
 

mech-tech

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Make sure you have water flowing through the lines. I am not sure if you have one, but some forklifts come with a valve hooked inline on one of the coolant hoses, they do fail and stick. If ya have one, remove it. Also, those vaporizers will freese over if they have an internal leak, usually these are accompanied by propane leaking past the internal valve in the vaporizer and coming out the air intake, and you can smell the propane if this is what is happening. If no propane smell, then its either a water flow issue or a faulty vaporizer.
 

mech-tech

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One other thing, these vaporizers operate by propane being supplier under pressure from the tank, past the fuel lockout, and into the vaporizer itself. The carburetor during engine starting and running creates a pulsing vacuum that backfeeds through the fuel line back to the vaporizer. Fuel will only flow out the vaporizer to the carburetor if there is a vacuum present. If the vaporizer fails, propane will constantly flow through the small valve in the vaporizer with or without vacuum present,or too much propane will flow through during operation, either way it causes it to freeze over. There is no adjustment for metering the gas flow on the vaporizer, either it works or it don't. Therefore if you have coolant flowing through the lines, the vaporizer is faulty. They do sell a rebuilt kit for them, but honestly I would just buy a new one.
 
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kevin47

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Thanks...I'm not sure water is flowing because the water lines are not warm...And I do smell propane...In fact, the tank volume has always seemed to drop too quickly...thought maybe it just needs a tune-up but, geez....No. shut-off valve, but the two lines are placed so close together I can't figure how there would be any flow...I've looked at what replacement reg. would cost on ebay and it looks like around $150 bucks...Even a rebuild kit is $125...I think your second post is opening my eyes...I feel like such a dummy lol This is the first propane powered engine I've had to deal with...What's that little spring loaded button in the middle of the reg...I push it and propane comes out....The tube from the reg. to the carburator is freezing up, too. and like i mentioned the water lines are not warm...I poured some water on the reg to thaw it and at least i could get it back in the shop...
 

Ironhorse

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Thanks...I'm not sure water is flowing because the water lines are not warm...And I do smell propane...In fact, the tank volume has always seemed to drop too quickly...thought maybe it just needs a tune-up but, geez....No. shut-off valve, but the two lines are placed so close together I can't figure how there would be any flow...I've looked at what replacement reg. would cost on ebay and it looks like around $150 bucks...Even a rebuild kit is $125...I think your second post is opening my eyes...I feel like such a dummy lol This is the first propane powered engine I've had to deal with...What's that little spring loaded button in the middle of the reg...I push it and propane comes out....The tube from the reg. to the carburator is freezing up, too. and like i mentioned the water lines are not warm...I poured some water on the reg to thaw it and at least i could get it back in the shop...

Just replaced all of mine on my Clark three months ago...the new ones do not have a purge button in the middle...that is there for cleaning **** out of the line..in case your tank line gets some rubber in it. The bowl bladders/gaskets are really cheap...but just replace the whole unit..or units (ours has two)...funny after all of that...the headgasket took a dive..so I just bought a diesel Linde 10klb full cab lift...tired of the propane lifts over the years...
 
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kevin47

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I wonder if the thermostat is stuck closed...Because the radiator sure gets hot but the lines to the regulator do not...I'll try to check it today...I'll thermal image everything and get back...

Diesel forklift...? Must not be from California...lol There having fits over the new smog laws in these here parts...On trucks AND forklifts...
 

Professur

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I've been following this closely .. I'm looking to add propane to my carbed SBC Parisienne ... when I inquired about whether or not the sub zero temps would affect fuel delivery, I was told that they didn't vaporize the propane at all .. they kept it liquid all the way to the carb and released it as an atomized spray. That forklifts don't do it the same way is fascinating.
 
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smothers33

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Thanks...I'm not sure water is flowing because the water lines are not warm...And I do smell propane...In fact, the tank volume has always seemed to drop too quickly...thought maybe it just needs a tune-up but, geez....No. shut-off valve, but the two lines are placed so close together I can't figure how there would be any flow...I've looked at what replacement reg. would cost on ebay and it looks like around $150 bucks...Even a rebuild kit is $125...I think your second post is opening my eyes...I feel like such a dummy lol This is the first propane powered engine I've had to deal with...What's that little spring loaded button in the middle of the reg...I push it and propane comes out....The tube from the reg. to the carburator is freezing up, too. and like i mentioned the water lines are not warm...I poured some water on the reg to thaw it and at least i could get it back in the shop...

you need to solve the water issue first and formost. do not replace or rebuild the reg till you get hot water to the reg. if you have a blown seal or diaphram in the reg youll know it. it will pour fuel with the engine off and also will either run like **** or not run at all as soon as you turn the key. if it water issue the truck will run fine till the reg freezes then die out because too much fuel. you probably need to bleed the air out of the reg. open up 1 of the coolant lines on the reg. doesnt matter which 1. dont completely take it off just pull it till its about to come off and you should hear some bubbling sound and when the bubbling sound stops and water starts coming out push the line back on and tighten down. if that dont work check thermostat and finally for any blockage in the lines
 
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kevin47

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Back from the shop...Found the problem...Geez, how could I have not noticed it before ( probably the shop noise ) The regulator is leaking out the top, thru that "purge" button...Leaking enough that I can put my hand over it and feel it...What do you think...? A diaphragm I can replace...? Or chuck the whole thing...Looks to have be opened before..Impco Model J...I'd rather do this on the cheap..The radiator is so clogged with greasy dirt it will have to come out (on the the outside of the core)...I only see two bolts on the sides holding the radiator in...Can it be that easy...?
 
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Gert

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Looks like you have to replace everything inside the vaporzer. Not sure what model you have, but for a mode J jou could use this one (just an example):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/17095548630...ries&cmd=ViewItem&hash=item27cdbdb45d&vxp=mtr

Before you buy a kit, open up your own vaporizer and see that the parts are identical. If it hasn't been opened for a long time, expect a lot of brown slime - a deposit of lpg. Make sure you remova all that dirt before installing the new parts.
 

Hyster Gareth

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Just as I mentioned leaking through vapor valve lever and pad. I would get a kit and replace everything. Also it might be prudent to replace the fuel filter assembly as well good luck:thumbup:
 

Garyss.smith

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If the reg is a Beam it is really important the surfaces are flat or the new diaphragm will not seal properly. I have seen many beam regulators that are warped and the new diaphragm will not seal it. For all of these the fix is replace it with an impco reg.

The impco will produce much better propane flow and give you better millage.

I would also consider replacing the carb with an impco also as these are much better.

Caveat: I haven't worked on any of these in over 30 years,

Gary
 
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kevin47

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Once again, my hats-off to you guy's for your help...And thanks Gert for that ebay kit link...That's the correct one..Guess I'll order it up "pronto" ( I'll open mine first )...Still have figure out my greasy-dirt caked radiator issue...Guess I'll pull it....Oh, joy...!

Hyster..? Where is the filter to be found...Poking around I didn't see any filter, Thanks...

Thanks, again...Noticed my hydrolic-fluid is awfully low...Anyone know where the cheapest place to buy it by the gallon...?
 
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mech-tech

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As for as a dirty radiator goes, pressure wash it to your hearts content. We intensly steam clean all forklifts at my work, the only ones it hurts are the new cat forlifts with electronics, as for the old forklifts, water wont hurt them. After washing it, just pop off the distributor cap and blow it out cuz the moisture gets in them. As for the fluid, even walmart sells hydraulic fluid. If its low, you really do need to degrease and pressure wash the entire forklift and find where ya leaks are coming from. Lots of leaks get fixed just by tightening up a hydraulic line or a hose clamp. Also check the transmission fluid, some forklifts use ATF and some use hydraulic fluid, hyster and yale come to mind as an example. Also brake fluid tends to get low over time, a small bottle goes a long way for that. You should also have a hydraulic filter either outside the tank or inside the tank on the suction. I've seem these things get neglected to the point of falling appart in the tank. I think toyotas have a transmission filter if I remember correctly.
 
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kevin47

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Thanks, mech-tech...A little up date...Today I went ahead and ordered the Impco kit...When out to the shop to take off the regulator...What a joke, I could wiggle the carburetor...! Not only were the 4 nuts hand tight that hold it to the manifold...The 4 slotted screws that hold the two body halves together were lose...! Got a new air filter for it, too. All the vacuum line's are oil bloated...I'll replace all the hoses...I found it easier to remove the carburetor and regulators as a whole unit rather than trying to twist it apart on the motor...

I tried blasting the radiator with degreaser it's hopeless while the thing is in the lift, I think the thing is shot...Called Part-R-Parts to ask about a quote...Says he can't even find it in the book...He'll get back to me...I noticed the fan blades are not even and at one time they rubbed against the radiator smushing over the fins...Just great...Hope it's not too expensive...If I'm going to bother taking it out, what the heck...Put in a new one...

The hydraulic leak is coming from the top seal on the lift ram...If you park it with the ram slightly up what a mess... I have a spanner wrench that's just the correct size...Doesn't look to be TO much trouble...To just put in a new seal...

My brakes are "****"...New thru-out...Shoes, Master Cyl. and Wheel Cyl....To the tune of $500 bucks...Ouch...
 
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Hyster Gareth

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The fuel valve and filter unit should be inline after the fuel tank. it provides a vacuam line to the carb and gas line to vapourizer unit.
 
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kevin47

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The fuel valve and filter unit should be inline after the fuel tank. it provides a vacuam line to the carb and gas line to vapourizer unit.
I see a small brass doo-hicky mounted on the top cover ( next to the seat ) it's in connection with the line from the fuel tank to the regulators...I guess this is what your referring too...? Always kinda wondered what that was...Should I attempt to take it apart for cleaning or what-not...?

I have inspected the LP carburetor and man is it filthy inside...I guess I'll do my best to carefully clean out the throat and butterfly(s)...

Three of the manifold studs came out while removing the carburetor...I'll clean the threads and (blue) lock-tight them back in...

I have contacted all salvage forklift yards in the lower 48...None appear to have a "used" radiator that might work...I think there are a couple more yet to "chime" in...One was helpful in identifying my motor as a 5R...

Going to make a list of all the hoses I'll want to replace and see if I can't find the time to pull the radiator while I wait for my regulator rebuild kit to arrive...
 

Hyster Gareth

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The filter is inside the gas lock off or gas valve. This unit looks very simlilar to the vapouriser. They are easy to strip apart and clean and Impco do kits with new filter screen and gasket and diaphragm etc.
 

mech-tech

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Another option for getting a radiator is going through a decent forklift shop and seeing what they can find aftermarket. But I will warn ya, my employer uses lots of aftermarket parts and while they are a very close match, they often times are no an exact match, but with a radiator, I am sure you can make it work if its not perfect. Like hyster gareth said, there is typically on an older forklift two propane components side by side, the first one being a vacuum operated fuel lock out valve and then the vaporizer. The fuel lock out is operating through small vacuum lines going to the carburetor/intake manifold and as vacuum is created through the engine spinning over, the fuel lock out opens and sends propane to the vaporizer. With 100% honest advise, if you are investing a little money into the forklift, ya might want to go just a tad bit further. Here is my honest advice, replace the fuel lock out with either a new one, or my preference, an electric shut off solenoid. The electric ones are very simple to wire up and have the advantage of doing away with all the small vacuum lines, therefore you wont have to replace them. The electric solenoid is $51 and is more reliable. Plus it makes a "click" noise when it operates so you know very easily of its working or not. Also, I would clean the carburetor and change the plunger kit in it. The kits is around $50 and will give you years of reliable service. Replacing these two items along with the vaporizer would pretty much be giving you an entirely new fuel system. As mentioned, the black tar looking residue in the fuel system is parafin oil residue that builds up over years from unclean propane. If ya don't find much, then that means who ever is supplying your propane is doing their job of draining their bulk tanks. As for the brass doo-hicky, I believe what you are looking at is the quick fill connector that is mounted near the tank. It is brass and is just there as a handy way to refill the tank without having to take it off, nothing more.
 

mech-tech

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Oh, one other tid bit of information, if on the vaporizer you see what looks similar to an old style oil pressure sending unit with two wires going to it, it is a switch that is connected to a light on the dash to let the operator know when they are low on propane. Some of the toyotas have them. If ya don't have one, then ignore everything ya just read.
 
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kevin47

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Thanks , buddy...There are some wires (two double connecters) hanging on the side thru some pig-tail...but it looks as though they've never been used...

I see under the radiator connected to the front of the crank-shaft harmonic balancer, a u-joint...Is that to the hydralic-pump...? Hard to see what's going on down there...Before I pull the radiator...All new to me...Thanks, Kevin
 
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kevin47

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Another option for getting a radiator is going through a decent forklift shop and seeing what they can find aftermarket. But I will warn ya, my employer uses lots of aftermarket parts and while they are a very close match, they often times are no an exact match, but with a radiator, I am sure you can make it work if its not perfect. Like hyster gareth said, there is typically on an older forklift two propane components side by side, the first one being a vacuum operated fuel lock out valve and then the vaporizer. The fuel lock out is operating through small vacuum lines going to the carburetor/intake manifold and as vacuum is created through the engine spinning over, the fuel lock out opens and sends propane to the vaporizer. With 100% honest advise, if you are investing a little money into the forklift, ya might want to go just a tad bit further. Here is my honest advice, replace the fuel lock out with either a new one, or my preference, an electric shut off solenoid. The electric ones are very simple to wire up and have the advantage of doing away with all the small vacuum lines, therefore you wont have to replace them. The electric solenoid is $51 and is more reliable. Plus it makes a "click" noise when it operates so you know very easily of its working or not. Also, I would clean the carburetor and change the plunger kit in it. The kits is around $50 and will give you years of reliable service. Replacing these two items along with the vaporizer would pretty much be giving you an entirely new fuel system. As mentioned, the black tar looking residue in the fuel system is parafin oil residue that builds up over years from unclean propane. If ya don't find much, then that means who ever is supplying your propane is doing their job of draining their bulk tanks. As for the brass doo-hicky, I believe what you are looking at is the quick fill connector that is mounted near the tank. It is brass and is just there as a handy way to refill the tank without having to take it off, nothing more.
Sorry , I just read this post...missed it earlier...I don't even see any plunger on this carb...Maybe I'm missing something...and I'm good with regular carbs....Yes, there is an additional regulator ...Looks a lot like the one I'm replacing the diaphragms on....So, I'd be getting rid of the other reg. all together..? Thanks
 

mech-tech

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Only the second one is a fuel regulator, the first one is a fuel cutoff valve, which is vacuum operated to open and close in order to keep the propane tank from venting when the engine is off, but this is older technology and required those old vacuum lines you see...thats why I suggest going with a more reliable electric one. They are easier to install and take up less room, plus will help keep you from having vacuum leaks due to the hoses in the future. The plunger I spoke of is inside the carburetor, it has a big spring under it and it pulses up and down. When they get old they stick and cause the engine to not start. The u-joint you see is connected to a short shaft that goes under the radiator to the hydraulic pump. Typically these go untouched until they start making a knocking noise while running due to slack forming at the u-joint/shaft splines. Only think to be advised on regarding the radiator, there are usually two push on hoses at the very bottom of the radiator, these are transmission oil cooler lines. If yours has them, remove them the best way you can, they are easier to get to after the radiator hoses are out the way. The radiator fins can be straightened, no need to replace it if it isn't leaking or overheating.
 
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kevin47

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Thanks for the info...I ordered the rebuild-kit already for the regulator so I guess I'll stick with it for now...I hadn't mentioned before I only use this fork lift a couple of hours a month...lol For about 15 minutes at a time...I don't have any problems starting the thing but I have a friend that does...I'll tell him about that...

Looking down under the radiator I didn't see any transmission lines...Perhaps I missed them...Still no luck on even finding a new radiator so it looks like some fin straightening and a flush will have to do...Someone told me to use miratic acid for swimming pools to clean it out with...Any one try that method before...? This thing is pretty clogged...No leaks or green patina... But it's not circulating well...
 
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kevin47

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Location
Concord California
Received the rebuild kit today...Guess I'll get on that...

Here's the new "glitch"... A new radiator is the longer made...No word on even a core replacement...Used one's cannot even be found...Wonder it a Toyota truck radiator could fit...I'll go out and measure mine...(from a 1982...) lol
 
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kevin47

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
383
Location
Concord California
Well, I back with an up-date...I guess the problem with the freezing up was because the water hose from the thermostat housing was blocked up with crystalized anti freeze...No water flow at all...Geez, Have to replace the diaphagms anyway...There leaking...And now I have to try and find another thermostat (lower) housing as the hose ****** corroded and broke-off...And it's cast on not threaded...The radiator appears to be clean enough after all that work..

Here's a new one...The radiator's out of the way and I see the Hydro-pump back there and it's obviously leaking from the seal at the shaft/u-joint...I wonder what I'd be getting into w/that...? If I COULD break that "out going" line nut...There's only an 1 & 1/2", I could move the pump back...If that would be enough to slip out the shaft/u-joint w/out having to take the u-joint apart, too. That would be great...! I think I'm dreaming...lol It sure would be great to have a fork-lift that didn't leak...!
 
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