black and galvanized pipe for air lines - 150psi max?

[tk06]

I am running new lines for a machine, I was told better to go with black pipe over galvanized, (IMO I don't think I would live long enough for galvanized to flake, but that is not my question now ) - we wont go after the pvc debate which I ran for years but only on about 100 psi (grin)

anyhow I was about to purchase and I see schedule 40 black pipe is only rated to 150psi,

my plan is to run 1" direct out of compressor (with water separator at tank) then run and regulate with filter at various places, one machine requires 120 psi constant pressure and it is about 175 ft down line

am I going to have to buy all schedule 80 pipe to safely keep 175 psi in the lines? (that is my compressor, 22 cfm at 175 psi, and if I add a machine I may have to go to a larger compressor one day..... next step up seems to carry about 200 psi of line pressure

thanks!

 

[DirtRoad]

Have you thought about rapidair? Im gonna go with it myself, looks to be cheap and easy and has really good reviews.

 

[CNGsaves]

I am running new lines for a machine, I was told better to go with black pipe over galvanized, (IMO I don't think I would live long enough for galvanized to flake, but that is not my question now ) - we wont go after the pvc debate which I ran for years but only on about 100 psi (grin)

anyhow I was about to purchase and I see schedule 40 black pipe is only rated to 150psi,

my plan is to run 1" direct out of compressor (with water separator at tank) then run and regulate with filter at various places, one machine requires 120 psi constant pressure and it is about 175 ft down line

am I going to have to buy all schedule 80 pipe to safely keep 175 psi in the lines? (that is my compressor, 22 cfm at 175 psi, and if I add a machine I may have to go to a larger compressor one day..... next step up seems to carry about 200 psi of line pressure

thanks!

Black pipe for air lines . . . . . .

that's black STEEL pipe like used for Natural Gas.

Call a plumber . . . . he'll know what to do!!

 

[tk06]

Have you thought about rapidair? Im gonna go with it myself, looks to be cheap and easy and has really good reviews.

No, but I'll take a look, thanks

 

[tk06]

Black pipe for air lines . . . . . .

that's black STEEL pipe like used for Natural Gas.

Call a plumber . . . . he'll know what to do!!

i am going to do the work myself. I'm not going to call a plumber and bother one, if I'm not going to hire one.

but thanks anyhow.

 

[cbacres]

Pressure ratings for sch. 40 steel pipe is much higher than 150 PSI. Just google "pressure rating for schedule 40 steel pipe" and there plenty of hits.

 

[akdiesel]

Go with Stainless

 

[tk06]

No, but I'll take a look, thanks

ok just found the website, the "hose" is rated to 150psi, the fast-pipe is rated to 190 psi, which would work for now, but if I have to upgrade later?

 

[tk06]

Go with Stainless

I would if it weren't so high, 1" stainless pipe at about 200 feet.... ouch.... it might be cheaper to buy another compressor and put it 2 ft away from the machine (grin)

 

[NUTTSGT]

Maybe I should researched this a bit more. I'm finding places that say 150 psi and other places that state 214 for 1/2" black pipe.

Now, that fact being I have a compressor that runs at 175 psi and alot of others are set to run at 150. So, the majority of guys that have used black pipe for airlines are maxing out the the rated pressure at 150.



Oh the irony of the PVC vs black pipe for airlines. Sorry, I need to LMAO.

 

[tk06]

Pressure ratings for sch. 40 steel pipe is much higher than 150 PSI. Just google "pressure rating for schedule 40 steel pipe" and there plenty of hits.

ok I just looked at lowes for black 1" steel pipe it said 150 psi, ill do some more looking thank you!

 

[tk06]

Maybe I should researched this a bit more. I'm finding places that say 150 psi and other places that state 214 for 1/2" black pipe.

Now, that fact being I have a compressor that runs at 175 psi and alot of others are set to run at 150. So, the majority of guys that have used black pipe for airlines are maxing out the the rated pressure at 150.

that is what caught my attention, it did not make sense to me though, heck when you look at schedule 40 pvc at home depot it says 480 psi on it, why in the world would steel pipe only be 150 psi I don't know, and no I do not know anything about pipe as everyone can tell! but I do not want to over pressure the rated psi of the pipe even if I did regulate down to 150 psi -

Oh the irony of the PVC vs black pipe for airlines. Sorry, I need to LMAO.

thought someone would get a laugh out of that! , but I did run it for years , like I said though much less pressure though.

 

[rumpity_z28]

Ya I'm sure it's rated for well over 150psi

 

[NUTTSGT]

thought someone would get a laugh out of that! , but I did run it for years , like I said though much less pressure though.

If check out the refurb thread in my sig, you'll see my latest project is removing PVC and switching to black pipe.

 

[hedhunter9]

What was the problem using PVC pipe ?
We have had it in our bike shop for about 20 years.
600psi rated if I remember right (1/2")

Bob

 

[Exit 61]

here you go... 600 for 1/2 around 480 for 3/4 to 1 " . You wont live long enough to rust out black pipe in air service

http://www.northamericanpipe.com/downloads/prod_specs/ASTM_1785-D2665_Schedule_40_DWV_Spec.pdf

 

[ddawg16]

Where are you guys getting your numbers?

Try this one.....

http://www.kalhour.com/downloads/psi_chart_as_per_pipe_wt.pdf

Schedule 40 3/4" pipe should be good for about 2000 PSI.

Don't even bring up the PVC for airline issue.....it's been beat up too many times on this site....

Another option is copper pipe......

 

[NUTTSGT]

Where are you guys getting your numbers?

Try this one.....

http://www.kalhour.com/downloads/psi_chart_as_per_pipe_wt.pdf

Schedule 40 3/4" pipe should be good for about 2000 PSI.

Don't even bring up the PVC for airline issue.....it's been beat up too many times on this site....

Another option is copper pipe......

I just did a few quick searches with Google. Never trust just one or two internet sites.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_pressure_rating_of_schedule_40_black_steel_pipe


When I did my original search it brought up an old GJ thread from 2007, I forget what I used for search words though.


Hey, I have black pipe now and I'm not changing it again. I don't really give a ****.

 

[Alchymist]

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/astm-steel-pipes-working-pressure-d_775.html

ASTM specs

 

[NUTTSGT]

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/astm-steel-pipes-working-pressure-d_775.html

ASTM specs

Yep, that one shows 214 for 1/2"

 

[tk06]

What was the problem using PVC pipe ?
We have had it in our bike shop for about 20 years.
600psi rated if I remember right (1/2")

Bob

I had it at two home shops for years, but once you start putting some pressure out and look into the problems with pvc, you will find the stuff from 20+ years ago was much better built, and find that basically pvc is chalk and glue, a shop not far from me had some explode according to a frind of mine in the sign business and put three workers in the hospital, so I started doing some digging myself, and see one of the problems when it does get lodged into someones body, it's hard to find to take out! now mine has never been subject to day light so that may have something to do with it

 

[Alchymist]

Schedule 40 3/4" pipe should be good for about 2000 PSI.

That rating is for grade B seamless pipe. Not what you find in your local BBS.

The stuff sold there is rated at 217 in schedule 40, and only 681 in schedule 80. Look at the pipe - see that ridge running down the inside? That's not seamless pipe.

 

[tk06]

Where are you guys getting your numbers?

Try this one.....

http://www.kalhour.com/downloads/psi_chart_as_per_pipe_wt.pdf

Schedule 40 3/4" pipe should be good for about 2000 PSI.

Another option is copper pipe......

lowes black steel pipe 1" 10ft sections was 150 psi

thanks, I was hoping to get some of it started this weekend, but no supply places are open on Saturday up here, just home depot or lowes, I will call a industrial supply place monday

 

[DekeT]

If you check the specs on BBS black or galv fittings you will see 150psi max for them. AFAIK this is something new or I just have not noticed it before. Could be because they are crappy chinese. Any BBS fitting i have bought inthe last decade or so is remarkably less quality. Like i said i have only recently noticed the 150 psi max spec. Troubling, since i put 175 into the lines.

 

[cbacres]

I was refering to manufactures pipe charts, I agree, be careful whats online.
Sch 40 pipe and fittings, without looking at any charts, is more than enough for our shops. Look at the charts, thier ratings have at least a 4 to 1 safety factor.
Check with a Hughes supply, Whitecap, your local plumbing or pipe supply and They will have the charts for thier product. The pipe will all be the same as it is to a ASTM standard.

The supply houses are often cheaper than Lowes & Home Depot, you get raped on the fittings there.

 

[Fueler]

Black pipe here, 175+ all day long.
PVC. Been there BOOMED that. damaged building.

 

[hedhunter9]

After reading some of the post's here, I went and googled PVC eplosions. Seems most were larger diam. stuff and high pressures...
I think the 1/2" stuff we have had in our shop for 20 years that was rated 600psi was ok for us as we only ran 125 psi thru it.. That gave us a pretty good margin to work with.

Now as I am just about ready to run air lines in my new pole barn, I think I will run the black pipe instead. Still only going to run 125psi thru it, but since it is stronger as far as
damage if hit by something it give us a better margin of safety.
Bob

 

[Kevin C]

I saw a problem with the pressure rating of the fittings. Most common parts store are rated as class 150, 150 PSI max. The medium pressure fitting are a lot more expensive and not stocked at most big box's.

The upside with steel fittings is they are a lot more temperature tolerant. There is no de-rating to 350°F. Not so much for PVC.

PVC is OK as long as you line it with copper tubing.

 

[cbacres]

Here is just one one the many links on ratings for class fittings. we are good to 300 PSI.
WOG= water - oil-gas.

Recently was putting together a test wellhead for a 1000 PSI test, Had class 900 flanges that I think were around 1460 PSI. Well above what we were doing plus the 4 to 1 safety factor.

Dont think any of us here can get into trouble with black steel or galv pipe.

http://www.indpipe.com/images/PDF/m...l_and_nipple_standards_and_specifications.pdf

Oh, PVC is safe when incased in steel pipe.

Just had to say something about PVC.

 

[DekeT]

Here is just one one the many links on ratings for class fittings. we are good to 300 PSI.
WOG= water - oil-gas.

Recently was putting together a test wellhead for a 1000 PSI test, Had class 900 flanges that I think were around 1460 PSI. Well above what we were doing plus the 4 to 1 safety factor.

Dont think any of us here can get into trouble with black steel or galv pipe.

http://www.indpipe.com/images/PDF/m...l_and_nipple_standards_and_specifications.pdf

Oh, PVC is safe when incased in steel pipe.

Just had to say something about PVC.

Thanks for that link. Explains a lot.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Now as I am just about ready to run air lines in my new pole barn, I think I will run the black pipe instead. Still only going to run 125psi thru it, but since it is stronger as far as
damage if hit by something it give us a better margin of safety.
Bob

The biggest plus for the PVC was ease of assmebly or modifying location of lines. The black pipe did take me longer but the delay was manually cutting threadsand routing it around things. Making straight runs in apole barn will be a piece of cake.

The upside with steel fittings is they are a lot more temperature tolerant. There is no de-rating to 350°F. Not so much for PVC.

If I still had the PVC airlines and my shop got to 350 degrees, I believe I have more to worry about than the airlines.

 

[Kevin C]

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermoplastic-pipes-temperature-strength-d_794.html

OK I could have stated that better Iron and steel , no derating to 350°F.

PVC.... 110°F gets you a 50% derating.

 

[Falcon67]

I think the 1/2" stuff we have had in our shop for 20 years that was rated 600psi was ok for us as we only ran 125 psi thru it.. That gave us a pretty good margin to work with.

Now as I am just about ready to run air lines in my new pole barn, I think I will run the black pipe instead. Still only going to run 125psi thru it, but since it is stronger as far as
damage if hit by something it give us a better margin of safety.
Bob

Read the mfg specs - the rating is for water, not air. Big difference and the mfg will not recommend using PVC for air.

 

[tk06]

If you check the specs on BBS black or galv fittings you will see 150psi max for them. AFAIK this is something new or I just have not noticed it before. Could be because they are crappy chinese. Any BBS fitting i have bought inthe last decade or so is remarkably less quality. Like i said i have only recently noticed the 150 psi max spec. Troubling, since i put 175 into the lines.

I did find a commercial plumbing supply open yesterday, they only sell it in 21ft lengths, and their pipe and fitting is rated to 150psi as well as the stuff in home depot, and said not to worry about putting 175 psi in them, (ok that is bothersome a bit) anyhow their price is about 40 cents a ft less than home depot or lowes anyhow,

so where do I find 1" pipe that is rated above 150 psi,

why chance it, what about if there is a problem and you have a ins claim, putting only 150 psi to the line will be fine for now as it is only about 170 ft to machine that requires 120 psi, and using 1" there would not be enough psi drop to worry about it, but that is only the one machine requirement, and if anything else gets used at once, that kind of blows away the psi drop that far down line, plus I want to add a air activated scribe to this setup as well. which can eat up some cfm


thanks

 

[tk06]

ok I found a general information pdf about pipe here http://www.tmcinc.org/CATALOG PDFS/tmc_2009_fittings_web.pdf, but I am attaching apic of it as well - so assuming this is correct, which I am, schedule 80 will handle 200psi safely, and class 300 fittings are safe at those pressures?

 

[CNGsaves]

Since now it's clear that you are trying to install black pipe STEEL for air line system, you're Over-Worrying about the pressure rating!! Relax. Millions of home shops and businesses around the world are using black pipe steel for air line system and they are LIFETIME systems. Build it once, and you're done!

Black pipe steel is MOST SAFE material to build air line system on a budget. Now that you've found wholesale supplier of 21 ft sticks of black pipe steel, that's where you need to spend your money as now you're convinced it's the cheapest source (no need for the higher rated pipe).

Now, your idea of NEEDING to put 1" black steel pipe in home garage is way overkill. A 3/4" main line with 1/2" drops will be more than enough to handle anything you plan on doing with 22 cfm compressor. Or you can keep it simple and make everything out of 3/4" or everything from 1/2" . . . either will be more than adequate.

Tools you'll need are pipe cutter, 3/4" threader, 1/2" threader, pipe vise, and pipe wrenches. If you are fine working with these, then jump in and do it yourself. Otherwise layout the whole system and pay a plumber to make the cuts and threads on pipe pieces with you putting together after.

Good luck.

 

[AndyA]

I have black pipe in my shop. If I were to do it again, I would probably use copper. The ease of assembly outweights the extra cost, imho. Also you can cut the copper pipe and add a tee way easier than with black pipe (unscrew large sections, cut, thread ends, screw it all back together). Threading tools for black pipe are quite expensive. Copper can be worked with a cheap wheel cutter, some emery cloth and a propane torch. Personally I'd use sil-phos braze, but that'll require an oxygen-fuel torch.

 

[premierplayer]

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/schedule-40-pipe-pressure-capcity-76885/

 

[djjsr]

The dead horse is coming alive.


For those of you who choose plumbing air with PVC for home use, that's your decision and I hope none of your loved ones are around if it explodes.

For those of you who choose plumbing air with PVC in a business, you could be in for problems if something goes bad.

Read this ...............

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=21567

 

[hypnolobster]

Copper is the way to go. Easier to install (no threading helps a lot), 1/2" is rated to 600 PSI, easy to uninstall/modify and it looks good.