Battery backup just for the well pump?

[Cadillac STS]

We get power outages here. When it happens I have a generator and I have an on-off-on switch box by the fuse box that I can flip switches to power most of the building. So start the generator, connect the wire to the plug coming up from the fuse box and switch over box, go and throw switches for the things I need power to.

Many times the power is off only a few hours and I only really would need the water pump in the well to run, so I can get a quick shower and get off to work for example.

Is there a product like a computer UPS that I could connect that has a battery in it that would run the pump a few hours. Would be more convenient to be able to just go throw the pump switch at the fuse box and go with that.

 

[aandpdan]

How much power does your well pump require? What voltage?

Odds are it wouldn't be cost effective. You'd need a large battery bank to get any runtime with a motor load.

 

[sparky67]

I think you need to build your own UPS. Not really hard just need an inverter/charger like outback power offers, and some batteries for as long as you want to run.
http://www.outbackpower.com/products/sinewave_inverter/

 

[G_P]

110 or 220 volt?

A 220v inverter big enough is going to be stupid expensive.

If its 110v you just need an inverter sized to the pumps amperage draw and enough deep cycle batteries to keep it going for an hour or so.

Oh and a battery maintainer to keep it ready to go.

Sent from my C5120 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Cadillac STS]

Great ideas thanks. It is 120 volt.

I guess price limits would be relative to putting in a natural gas automatic generator for the whole building..

Does anyone have info on where to get inverter gear at low cost?

 

[ddawg16]

Given the cost of the typical UPS's....you could toss one on there cheaper than you can build one.

To figure out what you need....look at the amps on your motor....mult that by the voltage...that will give you the watts....then browse the APC (one of the better ones)....they will give you the run time for a given load. Note...for a typical motor, anything over about 10 min of run time will most likely bump you up into some really expensive UPS's.

With that said....your going to reach a price point where a generator is going to be cheaper....

You might want to keep an eye on used RV generators....

 

[Norcal]

I use my Miller Bobcat 225NT for running my pump during a power failure, but have never had to use it yet, but the Bobcat is sitting there sans fuel as this is being typed out. There is a transfer switch there to make it EZ to power up in the event of a power outage.

 

[Cadillac STS]

Given the cost of the typical UPS's....you could toss one on there cheaper than you can build one.

To figure out what you need....look at the amps on your motor....mult that by the voltage...that will give you the watts....then browse the APC (one of the better ones)....they will give you the run time for a given load. Note...for a typical motor, anything over about 10 min of run time will most likely bump you up into some really expensive UPS's.

With that said....your going to reach a price point where a generator is going to be cheaper....

You might want to keep an eye on used RV generators....

Thanks for the help. I do have a nice generator but I need to roll it out, start it, etc.. When I just want to get a shower and leave. So the idea of an UPS type setup that would give me 10-15 minutes of power is all I'd need.

Motor is in the bottom of the well 100 feet down so looking at it is not easy...

 

[DekeT]

Thanks for the help. I do have a nice generator but I need to roll it out, start it, etc.. When I just want to get a shower and leave. So the idea of an UPS type setup that would give me 10-15 minutes of power is all I'd need.

Motor is in the bottom of the well 100 feet down so looking at it is not easy...

You probably have a control box/shutoff on your utility room feed to the pump. The electrical specs should be diagrammed inside the box.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I think you need to build your own UPS. Not really hard just need an inverter/charger like outback power offers, and some batteries for as long as you want to run.
http://www.outbackpower.com/products/sinewave_inverter/

Outback inverters are way overkill for this application. Plus you need 2 to make 240V 60 Hz !

This is probably what you want

AIMS 5000 Watt Power Inverter 12Vdc to 240Vac 60Hz

• Not a true UPS (you have to flip a switch to start it)
• You need a DPDT (on-off-on) 2 pole switch so you are not backfeeding the house and power lines
• Need a charger (Battery Tender would be adequate, because you do not need quick recovery)
• Modified sine wave (not good for electronics)
• Not split phase (120v not possible without a transformer)

Around $500, plus battery and cables (a couple of 6V golf cart batteries would be good). It has some kind of weird "universal" 240v plug

 

[Speedy Petey]

110 or 220 volt?

A 220v inverter big enough is going to be stupid expensive.

What does the voltage have to do with the size??

 

[Speedy Petey]

Thanks for the help. I do have a nice generator but I need to roll it out, start it, etc.. When I just want to get a shower and leave. So the idea of an UPS type setup that would give me 10-15 minutes of power is all I'd need.

Motor is in the bottom of the well 100 feet down so looking at it is not easy...

A deep well pump is definitely going to be 240V.

A generator (that you already have) with a simple transfer switch/panel is BY FAR the easiest and cheapest route. Even for one shower.

 

[Speedy Petey]

This is probably what you want

AIMS 5000 Watt Power Inverter 12Vdc to 240Vac 60Hz

Even with this he still needs some sort of transfer switch, or put the well circuit on a cord and plug.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Even with this he still needs some sort of transfer switch, or put the well circuit on a cord and plug.

NO !

That is why I said he needed a DPDT switch (Leviton 1286, 20A 1HP or Leviton 1288, 30A 2HP). If you don't know how to wire that, hire an electrician.

 

[DHCrocks]

what ever you do make sure you get a full/pure sine wave output. Motors will not work on typical UPS since it has a modified sine wave output. I'm not to sure about inverters and the output. the typical UPS will have an output that is squared off like a step and not a smooth curve. motors will not run on this type of sine wave. I tried hooking up a UPS to my aquarium filter motors and they would not run properly. I had to get a APC smart-ups to get the pure sine wave output to run the motors.

 

[Teken]

If you want quick and dirty. You can go out and buy a moderately priced APC UPS system. Purchase the correct sized Anderson Power Poles plugs. Remove the standard UPS battery. Install several deep cycle batteries and wire it in series / parallel and have the run time you require.

Go with Trojan 6 volt golf cart deep cycle batteries with 100 Ah rating, as they can be had for under $85.** in your American market. Wire in 2-4 of these (depends on your run time needs) and go to town.

You would have more than 8 hours of run time, well above your requirements.

EDIT: I just looked at some of my larger APC units. If you go with the larger units you will need to wire them to provide 24 volts. So in that case you will need 4 x 6 volt batteries
wired in series.

Going with the smaller APC UPS single 12 volt cells, would be better than you could wire them in parallel to increase the current / run time.

Teken . . .

 

[ishiboo]

NO !

That is why I said he needed a DPDT switch (Leviton 1286, 20A 1HP or Leviton 1288, 30A 2HP). If you don't know how to wire that, hire an electrician.

SUPER easy way to wire this... you just need one SPDT relay with 120v coil and one DPDT relay with 120v or 240v coil.

The small SPDT relay's "normally closed" terminal connects to the power switch on the inverter. The large DPDT relay has two contacts on the house power, the other two on the inverter, and the common go to the well pump.

When the power goes out, one relay will turn the inverter on and the other will transfer power.

Keep in mind, I am still 10,000% for using a generator for this and not an inverter.

 

[ishiboo]

If you want quick and dirty. You can go out and buy a moderately priced APC UPS system. Purchase the correct sized Anderson Power Poles plugs. Remove the standard UPS battery. Install several deep cycle batteries and wire it in series / parallel and have the run time you require.

Go with Trojan 6 volt golf cart deep cycle batteries with 100 Ah rating, as they can be had for under $85.** in your American market. Wire in 2-4 of these (depends on your run time needs) and go to town.

You would have more than 8 hours of run time, well above your requirements.

EDIT: I just looked at some of my larger APC units. If you go with the larger units you will need to wire them to provide 24 volts. So in that case you will need 4 x 6 volt batteries
wired in series.

Going with the smaller APC UPS single 12 volt cells, would be better than you could wire them in parallel to increase the current / run time.

Teken . . .

No need to go with Trojan 6's as they will be infrequently cycled... just use a couple normal deep cycle batteries. Trojan's are great for cycles/cost effectiveness/etc. but you will be half the price with 12v deep cycles.

 

[Teken]

No need to go with Trojan 6's as they will be infrequently cycled... just use a couple normal deep cycle batteries. Trojan's are great for cycles/cost effectiveness/etc. but you will be half the price with 12v deep cycles.

True, but going the other way ensures long term use and a robust system at the ready.

There is always going to be a element of *Oh **** I forgot*. Then again, if cost is a factor as its always is for most folks. Trying to balance value vs performance is ultimately up to the OP.

I try to build my systems with a margin of safety, oh **** factor, because I am not going to be the only one around when an emergency happens. It has costs me more to make things dumb down, redundant, and secure.

But, hey its only money!

Teken . . .

 

[theoldwizard1]

what ever you do make sure you get a full/pure sine wave output. Motors will not work on typical UPS since it has a modified sine wave output. I'm not to sure about inverters and the output.

I have 2 issues with your statements.

First, motors WILL work with modified sine wave inverters, Maybe not as efficient as pure sine wave, but the will work. Being a well pump, the motor runs intermittently so I don't see the problem (especially when the one I linked specifically said it was for use with well pumps).

Second, all of the UPS I have seen in my many years of working in the computer industry ARE pure sine wave. Most "general purpose" inverters are NOT !

 

[theoldwizard1]

SUPER easy way to wire this... you just need one SPDT relay with 120v coil and one DPDT relay with 120v or 240v coil.

The small SPDT relay's "normally closed" terminal connects to the power switch on the inverter. The large DPDT relay has two contacts on the house power, the other two on the inverter, and the common go to the well pump.

When the power goes out, one relay will turn the inverter on and the other will transfer power.

+1 !

Keep in mind, I am still 10,000% for using a generator for this and not an inverter.

I never said it was a good idea ! But it is the OP's money !

 

[ranger_dood]

If you want quick and dirty. You can go out and buy a moderately priced APC UPS system. Purchase the correct sized Anderson Power Poles plugs. Remove the standard UPS battery. Install several deep cycle batteries and wire it in series / parallel and have the run time you require.

Go with Trojan 6 volt golf cart deep cycle batteries with 100 Ah rating, as they can be had for under $85.** in your American market. Wire in 2-4 of these (depends on your run time needs) and go to town.

You would have more than 8 hours of run time, well above your requirements.

EDIT: I just looked at some of my larger APC units. If you go with the larger units you will need to wire them to provide 24 volts. So in that case you will need 4 x 6 volt batteries
wired in series.

Going with the smaller APC UPS single 12 volt cells, would be better than you could wire them in parallel to increase the current / run time.

Teken . . .

The larger APC units have plugs right on them to add battery packs. Even if you wanted to source your own external batteries, you wouldn't have to hack the unit up to do it.

Plus, to get the additional runtime, you're going to put more load on the charger (longer charge times than spec'ed), so you want a fan-cooled unit anyway.

 

[RickP]

Thanks for the help. I do have a nice generator but I need to roll it out, start it, etc.. When I just want to get a shower and leave. So the idea of an UPS type setup that would give me 10-15 minutes of power is all I'd need.

Motor is in the bottom of the well 100 feet down so looking at it is not easy...

I agree with others who said your generator is by far the cheapest way to go.

Have you thought about building a small shed-type structure attached to the outside of your garage or wherever you keep the generator? If you could store it inside a locked shed that had adequate air/exhaust vents, it would be pretty simple to fire it up just to power the well pump. As a bonus, it would be a lot quieter and would probably be easier to use during extended power outages. You could probably figure out a pretty simple way to power only your well pump, which would be a lot less involved than powering the rest of your house. You might be able to build it in a weekend with only $200 or so in materials. Of course, the $500 UPS option would be more convenient... but then you have figure out the time and cost to maintain the batteries long-term.

 

[VHF]

Keep in mind that a well pump has a serious starting surge, so the inverter needs to be able to start the well pump as well as run it.

I measured my submersible well pump (which is on a 15A 240V breaker) with a continuous running load of 7A but a statup surge of 35A!

That would take a pretty heafty inverter, with short heavy gauge wire to an adequate battery bank. A generator with ATS might be cheaper than doing it properly with an inverter. I spent about $3,300 total for my 10kw Generac, doing my own electrical install.

 

[VHF]

Thinking outside the box, if the only problem we are trying to solve is being able to take a shower when the power is out, how about adding a second pressure tank to your system?

It should be as large as possible, say 40 gallon, so you would have enough water to finsih a shower even if the well pump isn't running.

Of course, it won't help if the pressure is low when the power goes out, so you would probably want a check-valve to let water into the tank and a manual valve to open to let it back out when you need to use your reserve supply.

 

[GMBracing]

IF youre going to take a shower with the power out How about the hot water?

 

[D.J.]

I'm guessing he has LP or natural gas for water heating!

 

[eljefino]

Get one of these, fill it, and leave it in the attic or somewhere warm. By a window over a baseboard heat. Hang it off your regular shower nozzle and just be speedy about it.

A generator/ transfer switch is the obvious choice but after you shower you have to go shut the generator off, get exhaust on you, and maybe fuel fumes, then drag it back to its safe place, breaking a sweat.

A quick camp shower will get the worst of the funk off you and a mental exercise in finishing quickly.

 

[Cadillac STS]

Get one of these, fill it, and leave it in the attic or somewhere warm. By a window over a baseboard heat. Hang it off your regular shower nozzle and just be speedy about it.

A generator/ transfer switch is the obvious choice but after you shower you have to go shut the generator off, get exhaust on you, and maybe fuel fumes, then drag it back to its safe place, breaking a sweat.

A quick camp shower will get the worst of the funk off you and a mental exercise in finishing quickly.

Good idea, I can even leave it empty and use the last bit of pressure to pump it with hot water from the tap.

Looking into an automatic natural gas generator now for whole house.

 

[ckucia]

I know this is an old thread but being we live out in the sticks, maybe our experience will have some benefit.

Rather than trying to power the deep well pump with the power out, how about plumbing in a small cistern, such as by using one of those IBC totes that hold a bit over 200 gallons?

That would put the water storage around ground level, and then you could plumb in either a 12VDC RV pump or a 110VAC mobile home pump.

Either way, the amperage draw would be a trickle compared to trying to pump water out of a deep well. You may not have the pressure you're accustomed to, but you would have pressure. The Oxygenics line of shower heads are for this type of system and can really make the most of an RV pump.

Could even run it off a car battery or your car in a pinch.

IBC totes are generally available for about $100 (look for one that had a food-safe material in it previously). Pump should be less than $100. Maybe add some check valves to isolate from the normal plumbing and some plumbing for the tank. I'd bet you can have an alternate system on standby for about $300 or less. You'd just need to fill and drain the cistern occassionally to keep the water fresh. Maybe use it to water plants outside or wash the car, then you'll always know it's in working order.

 

[ddawg16]

Yup...old thread.....but....a very good suggestion.....

 

[firebirdparts]

I know it's an old thread, but if you're going to take a 1 gallon shower anyway, you just need to use the pressure accumulator that's already there. No need for cisterns, the system you have will already do that. If you want it all luxurious, look to see what is the biggest pressure accumulator that you can cheaply buy.

If you want to add a pump from the cistern, you can add it to pump out of the accumulator.