Snow Blower Fuel? Follow up #2

[Greatwhitewing]

In some of the recent snow blower discussions someone mentioned using summer fuel? Would that be worth the effort of buying a few gas cans to keep the summer blend around for the blower?

Gas varies quite a bit by area or state. My state has ONLY 10% ethynal. I love the ferral gooberment making my choices for me... (sarcasm)

My state has virtually NO options for anything else either. Love to find a source of pure gas but http://pure-gas.org/ doesn't even list MA and nothing in any reasonable driving distance.

I got this special pre-mix fuel for the string trimmer, seems to really help for that usually persnickety device.

Let's talk fuel, specifically as it relates to the use a snow blower gets. Intermittent in cold/wet conditions after sitting idle for a long time.

 

[CNGsaves]

Yep, you're stuck with spending more money to stabilize that gas/ethanol blend if it sits a while. Some good brands are Stabil or Lucas Oil. Google "fuel additive for ethanol" and you'll get lots of options.

Would be best for the snowblower to run the carburetor empty of fuel when you are done using it. Also, pull the sparkplug out and fog the cylinder with some WD40 then turn over the engine before putting plug back in.

 

[helgrind]

I run 100LL AvGas in all of my outdoor power equipment. Never had a problem

 

[Terra Nova]

Take this for what it's worth as it's anecdotal evidence but:

13 yrs or so ago I was doing cold testing on engines in dynos cells (huge chillers would chill the coolant to -40 in a matter of minutes and then the engines would fire up and go to WOT instantly, run at WOT to operating temp, shutdown, chill to -40, and repeat... They made some nasty nasty sounds doing this). We had some engines that wouldn't start. The OEM engineers came out and said it was due to our tanks holding summer gas. We all scoffed but sure enough after switching to winter gas the starting problems went away.

I use winter gas and treat it with Stabil. No problems so far. I also run the carb dry if it'll be sitting more than a couple days between uses (the dealer recommended this). It's a good way to let the engine cool down anyway and it doesn't seem to impact how it starts next time. A couple pumps of the primer bulb and it starts on the first pull.

 

[Greatwhitewing]

Yep, you're stuck with spending more money to stabilize that gas/ethanol blend if it sits a while. Some good brands are Stabil or Lucas Oil. Google "fuel additive for ethanol" and you'll get lots of options.

Would be best for the snowblower to run the carburetor empty of fuel when you are done using it. Also, pull the sparkplug out and fog the cylinder with some WD40 then turn over the engine before putting plug back in.

That's what I did last srping running the tank and carb dry. I used gas with Sta-bill in it and was less than 6 months old but the chinese POS wouldn't start.

 

[Greatwhitewing]

Take this for what it's worth as it's anecdotal evidence but:

13 yrs or so ago I was doing cold testing on engines in dynos cells (huge chillers would chill the coolant to -40 in a matter of minutes and then the engines would fire up and go to WOT instantly, run at WOT to operating temp, shutdown, chill to -40, and repeat... They made some nasty nasty sounds doing this). We had some engines that wouldn't start. The OEM engineers came out and said it was due to our tanks holding summer gas. We all scoffed but sure enough after switching to winter gas the starting problems went away.

I use winter gas and treat it with Stabil. No problems so far. I also run the carb dry if it'll be sitting more than a couple days between uses (the dealer recommended this). It's a good way to let the engine cool down anyway and it doesn't seem to impact how it starts next time. A couple pumps of the primer bulb and it starts on the first pull.

Interesting data. In another thread I stated my blower had just been serviced a few weeks ago for not starting. He put in dry gas which was still in there.

Seems I did nothing wrong just have a POS blower.. All my other power tools run well but mostly in the warmer weather. Not much call for grass cutting with snow cover..lol

 

[justanengineer]

Call me crazy, but for me life is too short to screw around with small engines. Typically I buy something, spend a few hours doing my best to tune it properly while the novelty of "new" still exists, then on the rare occasion it becomes a PITA I get rid of it in favor of one that isnt. I see absolutely no reason to dicker around with fuel stabilizers or additives of any kind, much less "summer/winter" fuel. I keep fuel and oil topped off year round in everything and just run them every 2-3 months for a few mins to keep everything lubricated and moving.

 

[rlitman]

So you keep your equipment for 2-3 years and then replace it?

I don't have many hassles with my equipment, but I sure do pay attention to the fuel going in it.

Summer blend fuel will be harder to start in a cold engine than winter blend. It is just less volatile. If you have an electric starter, it may not make a difference. If you're pull starting, you'll be happy you bought winter blend gas.

OTOH, winter blend gas vents more and goes bad faster in warm weather. In the spring, dump that winter gas you had in the can for the snowblower into the car. Don't put it in your mower.

 

[Gary S]

I don't worry about winter or summer blend. I just use G100. I fill my gas can when it is empty. I fill the lawnmower, rototiller, and snowblower from the same can until it is empty. Some times it will be gas I bought in the summer and sometimes gas I bought in the winter. I've never had any fuel issues with any of my engines.

As long as you don't try to feed your engines corn syrup, you shouldn't see any difference.

 

[rlitman]

I don't worry about winter or summer blend. I just use G100. . . As long as you don't try to feed your engines corn syrup, you shouldn't see any difference.

Thanks. Gloat all you want, but that isn't an option in a lot of places (like for the OP, and myself, among others).

 

[supra90turbo]

Have a Sunoco station nearby? They sell race fuel by the 5 gallon pail.

My friend was given a snowblower a few years ago with the reason it wouldn't start or run. He filled it with race gas from his race quad, and it fired right up.

A couple snow storms later, he runs out of gas and heads to the station and fills up a can with 87 octane and no matter what, that blower wouldn't run.

After a while, he dumps the tank, refills it with vp101 and it fires right up. I was sold on the idea from then on.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I am going "against the grain".

First, there is nothing inherently wrong with using E10 in small engines (as long as it meets the manufactures octane recommendations). If you have a clean gas tank (and storage container) and a good clean carb, and relatively fresh gas, you will have no problems.

I have been using E10 on everything, lawnmowers, 50 year old rototiller, string trimmer, 2 stoke snowblower, 4 stroke EFI outboard and have only had 1 issue. 2 year old fuel in the outboard.

Best thing to do for your snowblower is drain the tank at the end of the season and run the carb dry. Don't refill until the following season. If you are like most of use, you only have 1 gas can. Empty it in the car and fill it after the gas stations start pumping winter blend. If you are paranoid, add a double dose of SeaFoam when you fill your gas can in early winter.

Always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS make sure your snowblower and generator starts and runs a day or 2 before any big storms.

 

[stratman977]

I treat my 1970 cub cadet plow tractor with ethanol medic. It always fires right up after sitting a few weeks. I keep the bottle in my truck and just add it before I pump the gas into my can at the gas station.

 

[Terra Nova]

I am going "against the grain".

First, there is nothing inherently wrong with using E10 in small engines

I agree. There is nothing wrong with using Ethanol fuel in small engines. Where people get into trouble is with storing fuel in them for a length of time or over the off season. They may have gotten away with it pre ethanol gas but the new stuff has about a 30 day shelf life without treatment.

I was in a power equipment dealer just the other day and overheard a phone conversation about an issue. After the guy hung up I asked if they see a lot of fuel related issues now. He rolled his eyes and pretty much said that's most all of the problems they deal with now and educating customers has been hard.

 

[NJJer]

Gas is reformulated about 14 or so times a year depending on you local.

Using gas "in season" is your best bet.

Ethanol, even just 10% does and will harm fuel hose, and your carbs float seat (if not Viton) Rubber hose will turn to jelly, or just "flake apart" from the inside.

Use Stabil, even double the dose, keep tank and fuel jugs topped off and closed, and you will have much less problems with the fuel.

Higher octane fuel stays "fresh" longer, as the volatile components do not evaporate as fast.

AV gas is not good for use in small engines. The octane rating is not the same, and it is formulated for use in very cold temps at altitude.

I could go on for days, but this is Garage Journal, not small engine central.

 

[NJJer]

I agree. There is nothing wrong with using Ethanol fuel in small engines. Where people get into trouble is with storing fuel in them for a length of time or over the off season. They may have gotten away with it pre ethanol gas but the new stuff has about a 30 day shelf life without treatment.

I was in a power equipment dealer just the other day and overheard a phone conversation about an issue. After the guy hung up I asked if they see a lot of fuel related issues now. He rolled his eyes and pretty much said that's most all of the problems they deal with now and educating customers has been hard.

Ask this dealer if he knows the difference between R7 and R8 fuel line? And just what it is. Then ask him about R9. If he knows this, he will know each ones intended use.

Most fuel problems in small engine today are from the end user, and The Shop mechanics not knowing. They are stuck in the 70's for the most part and are not even close to being up to date on technologies in the industry.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Ethanol, even just 10% does and will harm fuel hose, and your carbs float seat (if not Viton) Rubber hose will turn to jelly, or just "flake apart" from the inside.

True, but they have not used natural all-rubber hose in over 50 years ! Same with "rubber" parts inside carburetors !

 

[NJJer]

True, but they have not used natural all-rubber hose in over 50 years ! Same with "rubber" parts inside carburetors !

Rubber today is used in a generic meaning

Please look up ratings for R7 and up fuel hose.

Then you will see why they fall apart.

Wanna see some "rubber" float seats? New in package straight from one of my parts suppliers?

Check out Briggs "new" "emission" fuel hose. Still not even rated for use with any Ethanol.

Stuck in time most are....

 

[justanengineer]

So you keep your equipment for 2-3 years and then replace it?

Nope. IME small engines are either great or terrible, meaning they will run irregardless of the situation or be a PITA throughout due to some factory build issue.

Maybe its just my luck, but I dont have problems with fuel, just with an occasional engine. My old carbed 2-stroke sled (97 MXZ) sat in the unheated shed for a bit over two years before I got it out in December. According to some here it should not have started at all with old fuel and being fairly well frozen, but it fired on the second pull as always and ran through the full tank to include a thorough warmup idling without issue. Similarly, the weedwacker has been running fine on gas thats ~10 months old and will likely run most of the upcoming summer on that old mix.

Personally, I suspect most of the fuel issues people have are due to not storing the tank full and moisture getting into the gas.

 

[MikeF2316]

In some of the recent snow blower discussions someone mentioned using summer fuel? Would that be worth the effort of buying a few gas cans to keep the summer blend around for the blower?

Gas varies quite a bit by area or state. My state has ONLY 10% ethynal. I love the ferral gooberment making my choices for me... (sarcasm)

My state has virtually NO options for anything else either. Love to find a source of pure gas but http://pure-gas.org/ doesn't even list MA and nothing in any reasonable driving distance.

I got this special pre-mix fuel for the string trimmer, seems to really help for that usually persnickety device.

Let's talk fuel, specifically as it relates to the use a snow blower gets. Intermittent in cold/wet conditions after sitting idle for a long time.

I have to say, I've bought into the whole summer/winter gas thing. I always put the remaining fuel for my mower or snow blower into my car at the end of the season and get some new gas for the new season. I always stabilize it immediately.

My lawn mower always starts on the first pull, even the first time in the season, and doesn't even need anything more than a half hearted pull. My snow blower, on the other hand, I don't think I would get going without the electric start if it's been sitting more that a week or so. If it's been a day or 2 or just sitting for a few minutes, it starts no problem.

 

[skiingman]

Gas varies quite a bit by area or state. My state has ONLY 10% ethynal. I love the ferral gooberment making my choices for me... (sarcasm)

You're the guy who can't even get a small engine to run properly, and you are qualified to comment on what fuels are available on the market?

Why don't you quit posting three threads a day about this and go out there, take it apart, and LEARN something?

 

[skiingman]

Gas varies quite a bit by area or state. My state has ONLY 10% ethynal. I love the ferral gooberment making my choices for me... (sarcasm)

You're the guy who can't even get a small engine to run properly, and you are qualified to comment on what fuels are available on the market?

Why don't you quit posting three threads a day about this and go out there, take it apart, and LEARN something?

Yes, some of the Chinese engines can be difficult and parts can be difficult, but the vast majority of small engine fixes cost 0-25 bucks and take an hour or less.

 

[TDLMOMOWERS]

Okay, my view may differ from some, but here is what works for me. I run Stabil all year long in all my power equipment and I never run the Carb. dry. I run 2 ounces of Stabil to 5 gallons of gas. My Homelite weed eater is now18 years old and will start on the 3rd pull. My Lawnboy mower is a 66 model and it will start on the 2nd pull. I use a synthetic 2cycle oil, that is made for all ratios. My MTD snow blower with a Tecumseh 5hp engine is 12 years old and still has the original spark plug. I have been a small engine mechanic for over 25 years and have seen all kinds of screwed up fuel systems from ethanol. I had one last year, where it looked like the carburetor was full of baking soda. It was corrosion caused by ethanol. There is a new Stability out on the market that is made especially to combat the effects of ethanol. Now I hear where the federal government wants to allow gas refiners to use 15 percent alcohol instead of the current 10 percent. This problem is not going to go away, so be prepared.
Be cautious about buying any power equipment with an engine made in China. Most of these engines have no manufacturers name on them. Where are you going to get parts for an engine when you don't know what company made it? You can walk in most part stores and buy tuneup parts for a Briggs and Stratten engine. I had a guy last year that couldn't get his snow blower started. I went and looked at it and it had a Chinese engine on it with no manufacturers name. I didn't even know where to go for a Carb. kit. Turned out that it still had some warranty left on it, so he took it back where he got it, Home Depot.

 

[Laker]

On my 2005 Ariens 1128, I use Sta-bil Marine formula (specifically for ethanol blended fuel) with 93 octane Sunoco gas. I close the fuel valve and let the carb run dry after each use. Starts on the first pull.

I had a small "Featherlite FL1500" from 2000 and the fuel/primer lines turned to jelly from untreated gas with ethanol.

I'd rather have a 30 year old blower with an engine from a company that went out of business (Tecumseh), than a brand new blower with plastic parts and a Chinese Engine.

 

[24X26]

Just go down to the local marina or the dock at the nearest lake and pick up some fuel there. No ethanol.

 

[NJJer]

Okay, my view may differ from some, but here is what works for me. I run Stabil all year long in all my power equipment and I never run the Carb. dry. I run 2 ounces of Stabil to 5 gallons of gas. My Homelite weed eater is now18 years old and will start on the 3rd pull. My Lawnboy mower is a 66 model and it will start on the 2nd pull. I use a synthetic 2cycle oil, that is made for all ratios. My MTD snow blower with a Tecumseh 5hp engine is 12 years old and still has the original spark plug. I have been a small engine mechanic for over 25 years and have seen all kinds of screwed up fuel systems from ethanol. I had one last year, where it looked like the carburetor was full of baking soda. It was corrosion caused by ethanol. There is a new Stability out on the market that is made especially to combat the effects of ethanol. Now I hear where the federal government wants to allow gas refiners to use 15 percent alcohol instead of the current 10 percent. This problem is not going to go away, so be prepared.
Be cautious about buying any power equipment with an engine made in China. Most of these engines have no manufacturers name on them. Where are you going to get parts for an engine when you don't know what company made it? You can walk in most part stores and buy tuneup parts for a Briggs and Stratten engine. I had a guy last year that couldn't get his snow blower started. I went and looked at it and it had a Chinese engine on it with no manufacturers name. I didn't even know where to go for a Carb. kit. Turned out that it still had some warranty left on it, so he took it back where he got it, Home Depot.

I like this person. ^^^^

No BS and to the point, while also being correct.

 

[Steve_P]

I've had no issues with today's E10 gas in any of my small engines. You do not need to run anything more than 87 octane in a snowblower- most briggs/tecumseh engines have a ~7:1 compression ratio

 

[rlitman]

On my 2005 Ariens 1128, I use Sta-bil Marine formula (specifically for ethanol blended fuel) with 93 octane Sunoco gas. I close the fuel valve and let the carb run dry after each use. Starts on the first pull.

Yes, 93 gas ages a little better. That's all I use in my small equipment.

If it's getting put away for a couple of days, I don't bother (like the lawnmower from week to week)
Between storms, I'll close the fuel valve on the snowblower and run it dry. If you choke it as it starts to sputter, you'll draw even more from the carb.

For seasonal storage, after doing that, I'll pull the carb bowl and dump the contents in my bad gas container, leaving the carb totally dry. That then goes in the car a few quarts at a time as it accumulates.

 

[Greatwhitewing]

I am going "against the grain".

First, there is nothing inherently wrong with using E10 in small engines (as long as it meets the manufactures octane recommendations). If you have a clean gas tank (and storage container) and a good clean carb, and relatively fresh gas, you will have no problems.

I have been using E10 on everything, lawnmowers, 50 year old rototiller, string trimmer, 2 stoke snowblower, 4 stroke EFI outboard and have only had 1 issue. 2 year old fuel in the outboard.

Best thing to do for your snowblower is drain the tank at the end of the season and run the carb dry. Don't refill until the following season. If you are like most of use, you only have 1 gas can. Empty it in the car and fill it after the gas stations start pumping winter blend. If you are paranoid, add a double dose of SeaFoam when you fill your gas can in early winter.

Always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS make sure your snowblower and generator starts and runs a day or 2 before any big storms.

Everything you mentioned I did except not sure exactly how old the fuel was and if it was winter or summer blend. But in the can I amost always including this time used Sta-bill in it. The blower started two days before the storm came.

I am getting the strong impression the blower is a POS I will get running and sell and buy a Ariens or Simplicity if I can't find the Ariens I want.

 

[Greatwhitewing]

You're the guy who can't even get a small engine to run properly, and you are qualified to comment on what fuels are available on the market?

Why don't you quit posting three threads a day about this and go out there, take it apart, and LEARN something?

Yes, some of the Chinese engines can be difficult and parts can be difficult, but the vast majority of small engine fixes cost 0-25 bucks and take an hour or less.

Thanks for all your helpful insight, that and $1.50 will get me a cup of coffee.

I did take it somewhat apart with nothng apparent. We all can't be superman.