Where to not use Noalox compound?

[dimarcelli]

Alright well i know noalox is supposed to be used for aluminum to copper connections but is there anywhere where it's not supposed to be used? I only ask because when i installed my square d QO panel, i dabbed some on the breaker contacts where it slides onto the bus bar. Now im reading in several places that this is not recommended? I really don't know why i did it, maybe it was a bad idea. I tend to over think things.

The panel is an older QO panel, maybe twenty years old by looking at it. Came from an old house and i hated to throw it out. It has copper bus bars, i cleaned those up before putting it into service.

 

[Gooch]

No problem with that, New QO breakers have a dielectric grease inside the contacts of the breakers though.

 

[Falcon67]

I would not use it on coat hanger hot dog cookers.

 

[matt151617]

I don't think you're supposed to use it where you did, that connection is for dielectric grease. Just wipe it off. Use it on the feeder/neutral wire into the panel though if it's aluminum or anywhere there's aluminum wire outside of it's insulation.

 

[I void warranties]

please explain why not to use as he did? seems common practice to be used in bus/breaker... prevents arcing, prolongs connections.

 

[pattenp]

please explain why not to use as he did? seems common practice to be used in bus/breaker... prevents arcing, prolongs connections.

There is no reason to use Noalox on breaker connection points to the panel. Noalox is an anti-oxidant for aluminum wire to prevent aluminum oxide. Breaker terminals and buss bars are not aluminum.

 

[Gooch]

There is no reason to use Noalox on breaker connection points to the panel. Noalox is an anti-oxidant for aluminum wire to prevent aluminum oxide. Breaker terminals and buss bars are not aluminum.

every bottle I've seen says 'For all Aluminum to Aluminum, Aluminum to Copper, and Copper to Copper Connections'

 

[pattenp]

every bottle I've seen says 'For all Aluminum to Aluminum, Aluminum to Copper, and Copper to Copper Connections'

I just looked at a bottle and it does not list copper to copper.

 

[Gooch]

I just looked at a bottle and it does not list copper to copper.

Good for yours. still isn't going to cause any problems, although unneeded.

 

[rockwithjason]

you need to use the correct grease for the correct purpose. not all nolox greases are the same and they aren't all for copper. if you are working with breaker fingers use dielectric grease

 

[pattenp]

Good for yours. still isn't going to cause any problems, although unneeded.

I didn't know this was a competition. I just think it's a waste of Noalox Anti-Oxident to use it on non-aluminum connections.

 

[dimarcelli]

Thanks for all the replies, i feel better now. I was just mainly concerned it would cause an issue down the road. I did notice some dielectric grease on the tabs but most of it was gone due to the breaker being previously installed.

 

[rodm1]

In damp locations it's a good idea even if its copper to copper. In my basement the main feeders are becoming oxidized.

 

[Aceman]

I didn't know this was a competition. I just think it's a waste of Noalox Anti-Oxident to use it on non-aluminum connections.

Most of the time, I'd agree. But not always.

I have a couple places I do work at, that all the copper wiring turns greenish/black just from the air. Saying naolox on copper is a waste, simply isn't true.

 

[pattenp]

Most of the time, I'd agree. But not always.

I have a couple places I do work at, that all the copper wiring turns greenish/black just from the air. Saying naolox on copper is a waste, simply isn't true.

The green patina oxidation that copper gets and the oxidation that aluminum gets are different. If you want to use Noalox on copper it's your dime. I'm not aware that the chemical formulation of Noalox will even work on copper other than block air.

Copied from web....

Corrosion is the unwanted breakdown and weakening of a material due to chemical reactions. Copper resists corrosion from moisture, humidity, industrial pollution, and other atmospheric influences. However, any corrosion oxides, chlorides, and sulfides that do form on copper are conductive. Therefore, copper connections and terminations will not overheat from corrosion. Aluminium corrosion products, on the other hand, are resistive and therefore can cause unwanted heat. To prevent corrosion and protect joints, special surface preparations or oxide-inhibiting pastes are applied to aluminium. Copper connections do not require these preparations and their associated additional costs.

 

[Aceman]

I put it on the copper wire because 95% of the time it's getting inserted into a steel or aluminum lug. Between the copper wire and aluminum lug oxidizing or the steel set screw in the lug siezing, I know it's going to help the connection come back apart in a few years.

If you want to say Naolox is a complete waste of money on copper connections, that's fine. Maybe it just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling using it, I don't know.

But personally, I think it's worth a few pennies to dab a little on there now, to save myself a major headache later trying to get the connection apart again.

Have I had wires/lugs sieze with no visible deox? Absolutely, not uncommon.
Have I had wires/lugs sieze with visible deox? Not that I can remember.

The trick is remembering to put some on the set screw as well as the wire.

I actually use this type now, rather than Naolox:
http://www.penn-union.com/products/...-oz-cual-gelreg-oxide-inhibitor-compound.aspx

 

[awdblazer]

there is copper nolox out there

 

[Teken]

I put it on the copper wire because 95% of the time it's getting inserted into a steel or aluminum lug. Between the copper wire and aluminum lug oxidizing or the steel set screw in the lug siezing, I know it's going to help the connection come back apart in a few years.

If you want to say Naolox is a complete waste of money on copper connections, that's fine. Maybe it just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling using it, I don't know.

But personally, I think it's worth a few pennies to dab a little on there now, to save myself a major headache later trying to get the connection apart again.

Have I had wires/lugs sieze with no visible deox? Absolutely, not uncommon.
Have I had wires/lugs sieze with visible deox? Not that I can remember.

The trick is remembering to put some on the set screw as well as the wire.

I actually use this type now, rather than Naolox:
http://www.penn-union.com/products/...-oz-cual-gelreg-oxide-inhibitor-compound.aspx

Thanks for the link . . .

Teken . . .

 

[Aceman]

Todays repair. Wire blew up in motor j-box, pulled new wire and reterminated:

I like De-ox!

 

[gcronau]

Sorry for the late post to a slightly old thread, but this seemed like the right place.

I'm installing a small Square D QO sub panel, it's a 6/12 slot box. It has *aluminum* bus bars. Yeah, I know, I'd prefer copper too, but apparently you can't get copper bus bars from SqrD anymore until you get to the bigger panels, even in the QO series.
<grumble...>

Anyway, I was thinking about using a dab of de-ox on the bus bar contacts where the breakers plug in. The above conversation seems to lean towards this NOT being necessary, but everyone was also talking about panels with copper bus bars.

So, if the panel has an aluminum bus bar, would that change anyone's opinion on this issue? Would the use of some kind of de-ox help?

I actually popped one of the bus bars out of the black plastic frame to examine it. I snapped a 20a breaker onto one of the bus fingers. Even though the sides of the bus bar contact fingers are supposedly parallel, and the spring contacts on the QO breaker are parallel, when snapped together and wiggled back and forth, you can tell the breaker contacts are each making contact with the finger in only one small spot. It doesn't give me the warm fuzzies about sufficient surface area to make for good current flow.

I like the idea of having a compound in there that not only prevents future corrosion, but also has conductive properties to help increase the available square mils of conductive surface. And yes, I realize any paste of this kind is going to be *far* less conductive than a solid piece of copper or aluminum. But a little more conductivity couldn't hurt.

Of course, using it sparingly so it doesn't provide a path to ground, neutral, or another breaker or bus bar is obvious.

 

[Gokart]

QO load centers have a plated copper bus to ensure superior performance and durability. If you are looking at the buss connections , you are looking at tin plated copper. Which is why they appear to be made of aluminum.

 

[gcronau]

No, sorry, I know people get confused and think the plated copper buses are aluminum, but in this case, this *is* an aluminum bus.

This is a Square D QO 6 space 12 circuit indoor main lug load center.
Part#QO612L100SCP. This also applies to all the other small QO 6/12 and 8/16 load centers and the Homeline load centers of the same size range.

From the product description:
"The Square D QO 100 Amp 6-Space 12-Circuit Fixed Main Lugs Indoor Load Center is UL listed for residential, commercial and industrial power distribution. This load center is built with a rugged themoplastic interior and an aluminum bus bar plated for reliability."

As I said above, I took one of the bus bars out of the plastic frame to examine it. I know the difference between a piece of copper and a piece of aluminum. This is way too light to be a piece of copper. IT IS ALUMINUM.

At the end of the bus bar is the large lug for attaching the feeder wire. The lug is aluminum and even the big, 3/8" diameter, set screw that goes down into the lug to clamp the feeder wire, even it appears to be made of aluminum. It's too light to be made of steel.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I've NEVER seen an aluminum QO buss bar, but if you say so.

 

[Norcal]

When installing a breaker on a aluminum bus stab I use noalox & have had good results, have also used it on the threads of the set screws of AL lugs.

 

[gcronau]

I was surprised too. From what I had read on this forum and other forums, I had gotten the impression that all QO boxes were copper bus. When I popped the bus out to look at it, I realized it was *way* too light to be copper, and that's when I read the product description closer and realized it said aluminum. I also looked at all the other boxes in this size range to see if any of them were copper, and they were all aluminum too.

SqrD also makes a QO panel that's an 8/16 instead of a 6/12. The annoying thing about it is that the 6/12 is almost *exactly* identical to the 8/16, even has spaces in the plastic frame for 2 more breakers, and knockouts on the cover for 2 more breakers, but they machined off 1 finger on each of the bus bars so there are only 6 useable slots, instead of 8. Oh, and they put a different label on the cover. That's it. But the 8/16 costs nearly twice as much as the 6/12!! Ridiculous. I thought *maybe* the difference in price was that the 8/16 might have copper buses, but no, when I looked it up, it was listed as aluminum buses too.

One thing you should realize, is this box is one of the small boxes. No door over the breakers, no space for a main, just 6 breakers lined up left to right. It's a small box, not a full-sized box with 2 columns of breakers running down each side.

I *also* bought a larger SqrD QO box at the same time I bought the smaller one. The large box is a 2column 20/20 box with a Main 100a breaker. This box *does* have copper bus bars. When you look at them they are bright and shiny, almost reflective. They look like a metal that has had another liquid metal floated over them. They are definitely copper. In contrast, the bus bar from the 6/12 is a white'ish silver color with a matte texture. Definately a different metal.

Check out these 2 links, the first is the box I bought, the 2nd is the 8/16:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...th-Surface-Mount-Cover-QO612L100SCP/100148926
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...t-Main-Lug-Load-Center-QO816L100SCP/100136882

 

[ishiboo]

You can use noalox or dielectric grease. The purpose is to exclude oxygen which will prevent oxidation.

You can also do neither.

The Homeline panels have had aluminum bus bars with no issues, no surprise QO is going aluminum to cut costs.

 

[diyer999]

Alright well i know noalox is supposed to be used for aluminum to copper connections but is there anywhere where it's not supposed to be used? I only ask because when i installed my square d QO panel, i dabbed some on the breaker contacts where it slides onto the bus bar. Now im reading in several places that this is not recommended? I really don't know why i did it, maybe it was a bad idea. I tend to over think things.

The panel is an older QO panel, maybe twenty years old by looking at it. Came from an old house and i hated to throw it out. It has copper bus bars, i cleaned those up before putting it into service.

Anywhere the temp can potentially get close to 300F, using a conservative estimate.