Why Craftsman is dying...or is dead
- Thread starter SC-AW11
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cburnscrx
Well-known member
As a former retail manager (Fortune 500 company stores), it's better and easier for the company just to take most things back without hassle. It isn't in the clerks best interest for them to offer any sort of resistance on a warranty claim either. In truth it really doesn't matter if the clerk is right, the clerk is going to have to deal with the backlash from management, not the customer. I have never had a regional manager ask me why I, as a store manager, did take something back, but I certainly did have one ask why I didn't. Lesson learned. Pick your battles. If you're going to resist, then you better be darn sure it's not going to come back and bite you. Those guys who say they're going to call the corporate office...well they do. And you know how much corporate likes hearing from customers? Zero. So, the moral of the story is, take it back and give the squeaky wheel the grease.
Right or wrong is irrelevant in this scenario, it's a matter of policy and keeping your job.
sparky7
Well-known member
video no longer available
You didn't miss much.
I bet Sears had the video pulled based on a DRM violation. Retailers don't take too kindly to photos or videos being filmed within their stores without their permission.
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expatriated
Well-known member
That's what I found more shocking than the return--that Sears would allow their employees to be filmed as well as the entire process.
cburnscrx
Well-known member
I have a very uneasy feeling that somebody lost their job over this. I certainly hope not. Wish I could have seen the video...
Conductor562
Well-known member
Assholes like this are part of why we now have Chinese tools at USA prices. Who could blame Sears if they changed their warranty today? You'd think the tool should at least have to be broken or defective in some fashion to warranty it. It's disturbing that Sears would rather offshore their **** than tell this guy to f$ck off.
John316
Well-known member
Brownsfan
Well-known member
Sorry but it is. Trading in a screwdriver that is almost new because it has a spec of grease on it? And you didn't even buy it at sears? That's not abuse?
That would never happen at an industrial store. If you take a tool back to an industrial store, you better have a damn good reason. The tool has to be completely broken and the reason for it breaking has to be due to a factory defect; NOT user error. And those guys working there are pretty smart; you're not gonna fool them. But the thing about it is, rarely does an industrial tool have a factory defect bad enough to cause it to break. When I buy an industrial tool, I know full well ahead of time that I won't be taking it back; it's mine forever.
RedFordTruck
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
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I would much rather Sears keep USA made tools and go to Receipt-only warranty. All of my purchases in recent years are on my craftsman club membership anyway.
expatriated
Well-known member
I'd go a step further and say I'd rather see Sears keep USA made tools with NO warranty rather than go to China.
I find it odd that we all expect a tool never to break when we expect everything else to break or wear out.
Conductor562
Well-known member
I mean, I understand that Craftsman is their warranty. The majority of Craftsman's customers are homeowners/DIY'ers who buy (or bought) Craftsman instead of cheaper Chino **** because of the ease of warranty. I truly understand why Sears goes to great lengths to maintain the best warranty in the business, but to cater to dickheads like this who don't like a spec of rust/paint on their tools the bought at a yard sale for pennies at the expense of those of us who valued Craftsman as a decent quality, American made, tool, just seems like a bit much to me. Rust and paint are abuse and neglect. It's incomprehensible to me that Sears was willing to sell out and abandon their American made heritage to facilitate these types of people who make videos on the Internet about how they're playing the system into the ground. That's indicative of my generation I suppose. Be a freeloading ******* and spend every waking moment trying to get something for nothing and take the position that you're entitled to it just because you're you. This guy is no different than the 25 year old, able bodied, dope heads, that live off the system they never contributed to just because they can. I'm starting to ramble here, but I just get sick of people like this who want something for nothing and ruin it for everyone else. I hope Sears did see this video. I hope they realize the types of people and behavior they're facilitating. I hope they understand that they alienated a customer like me to cater to assholes like this guy who bought some stuff for pennies at a swap meet.
woody 73
Well-known member
I never got to see the video, I bet the guy must be thinking how wonderful he came out in the deal, but in reality he must be getting a lot of new chinese replacements!
Sears is in a tough situation, if they change their warranty, then people that bought the tools because of the warranty will sue them, if they don't take this guys tools back for warranty, then he will sue them. They are stuck in a no win situation.
Conductor562
Well-known member
Most warranties have a "subject to change without notice" clause effectively negating any lawsuits of that type. How would he justify the expense of a lawsuit for failure to warranty a handful of swap meet tools? Sears had to make a decision, either change the warranty or cheapen the tools. They chose the latter and here we are on the Internet bitching about it. I don't pretend to believe that warranty obligations were the only factor in their decision, but they did cite it as being a factor.
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cburnscrx
Well-known member
I've had exactly one tool go back to Craftsman that I can remember...it was a legit claim in my opinion and it was handled nicely. That being said, if they go to a receipt policy...I'm done. At that point there's no benefit of buying Craftsman. I can go to Lowes and get similar quality tools in Kobalt, and warranty them without a receipt any day of the week. Do you really think I am going to be organized enough to keep a receipt from a screwdriver set I got for Christmas 10 years ago. If you're that organized, good for you. I'm not.
cburnscrx
Well-known member
The backlash of changing the warranty would be the final nail in an almost closed coffin.
What I really want to know is who will buy the Craftsman brand when Sears goes under....
Seems to me a lot of over reaction to this thing. Sure the guy is a slimy POS, but some random guy doing his warranty bull is hardly the reason Craftsman is going down the drain. It's more than a believable stretch to say the warranty issue is bad for Sears business model. For all we know Sears may be getting a huge tax deduction on donation of used tools to charities. Do you think they justmthrow that stuff in the trash? If that were the case then it is an example of larger problems. If sears is losing out somehow to warranty problems the issues with the company are far more serious.
that would never work with those of us that havent kept reciepts for stuff that we bought in the 80s. there would need to be a redesign of the tools and anything that looks like the "old design" could never be held to that but maybe start with any tools of the "new design" from some date forward...
yes Deke you wouldnt believe the amount of stuff they throw away at the local store level, I remember many items having to destroy and make unusable before tossing into a dumpster, not just Sears tools... car stereos lawnmowers, it's mind boggling
sberry
Banned
I had a pair of Klein's I bought at an electric supply, about a month later they got a smiler in the cutter and it wasn't an arc, it was a little defect like cavity. I remember I took a glass with me when I went back, they kicked a little but said,,, hey,,, I bought these here and point out this was not me cutting a live wire.
Sears never a gripe all the socket replacements are fine and n the grand scheme considering the duty level all has been well, someone said here recently had rounded up tools from 15 yr and had snappy,,, well just rounded up here and sounds similar but Cman so he had 50$ broke stuff and I got 5. Not sure how I would have improved my odds with better tooling, certainly don't feel like I would have been helped significantly by adding 75K to the cost to insure against half a dozen busted sockets.
Sears never a gripe all the socket replacements are fine and n the grand scheme considering the duty level all has been well, someone said here recently had rounded up tools from 15 yr and had snappy,,, well just rounded up here and sounds similar but Cman so he had 50$ broke stuff and I got 5. Not sure how I would have improved my odds with better tooling, certainly don't feel like I would have been helped significantly by adding 75K to the cost to insure against half a dozen busted sockets.
zx2slow
Well-known member
I know of people that go to swap meets, flea markets, etc looking for craftsman tools. They will return these for warranty and sell the replacement tools for a profit or just horde them. Sears must be aware of these people because it seems like it is a common scheme that's been going on for a few decades now.
Its part of the reason the quality of the tools has declined and the production has moved offshore. All of sears remaining customers pay in one way or another for these slime balls.
Its part of the reason the quality of the tools has declined and the production has moved offshore. All of sears remaining customers pay in one way or another for these slime balls.
sberry
Banned
I know a couple guys that work at parts counters 40 something and one said to me yesterday easily has 100K of shiny stuff from the truck. Wonder how that worked out, 55 hrs a week locked in a store for half scale with all the stuff riding a box on the porch back home.
Statistically most people,, if they have a sense of want and are concerned about value are stupid not to buy sears especially with start up sets. Sears is stupid for selling them that low, they lowered it to HF prices. They should have raised the pricing a bit on everything, about a penny a piece and put 10% in to fixing that junk ratchet and they couldn't be beat.
The faulty small sears ratchet starting several years ago was a mistake, Napa uses that same pos chassis with a finer shine. Only other real sorry spot was the tubing wrenches, maybe they fixed some??? But those were no real deal.
Statistically most people,, if they have a sense of want and are concerned about value are stupid not to buy sears especially with start up sets. Sears is stupid for selling them that low, they lowered it to HF prices. They should have raised the pricing a bit on everything, about a penny a piece and put 10% in to fixing that junk ratchet and they couldn't be beat.
The faulty small sears ratchet starting several years ago was a mistake, Napa uses that same pos chassis with a finer shine. Only other real sorry spot was the tubing wrenches, maybe they fixed some??? But those were no real deal.
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Higgins
Well-known member
Hell, I havent kept reciepts for stuff that I bought in the 60's and 70's. Let alone, 80's, 90's 00's, and 10's. I would need a full time administrator and a couple of 5 drawer file cabinets to keep all the receipts!!!!
I vote for Dead... I've only purchased closeouts deals of late, and at a price that if they fail its not gonna hurt. I used to spend at minimum 30 min scouring the sears tool isles back when I first got into tools (90's), now it makes me sick to my stomach.
you didn't see the video but you know it was not abuse. the guy returned stuff that was like knew along with the stuff that was broken(much of it only appeared to be slightly worn or rusted). he as much as said there was nothing wrong with most of it and was only putting away new tools for some catastrophic event. what a tool!
this guy was a certified douchebag and to say otherwise makes you look like a fool.
sberry
Banned
Hiball, I would think your assesment may have changed, now more critical and less needy?
Conductor562
Well-known member
I do not believe warranties should be limited to the original purchaser. I do believe the tools should have to be broken or defective to be warrantied.
Exactly.
Definitely "less" needy, most of the tools I purchase Now are based off specific jobs or a tool that might make the task easier or Just curiosity. I can promise from a "personal" value's standpoint not much has changed. I grew up wrenching with my grandfathers Sk and at when it became time to purchase my first set, I couldn't afford Sk so I went with a 300+ Craftsman set that IRC was probably more expensive that what they cost today.
kythri
Well-known member
I think he's saying that it's not abuse, because of how the warranty is worded, and based on the statements of Sears executive staff that make it very clear that the warranty is (was?) based on the customer's satisfaction.
If one isn't satisfied with a speck of rust (which, I agree, is asinine), then warrantying that per the language of the warranty really CAN'T be abuse.
I saw the video. There were some tools in there that I'd warranty. I also don't have any issue with someone buying used/damaged tools and warranty replacing them, since the warranty never was to the original purchaser, it was a warranty "forever" on the tool itself. I really can't think of many Craftsman tools that I need at this point, and especially can't think of any that I'd find used, but if a piece caught my eye, and it was worth warrantying? Yeah, I'd totally do it.
That said, there were some tools that were in decent shape that there's really no reason to warranty, and I wouldn't have.
I wouldn't post a video of me warrantying tools - regardless of the situation, it's just dumb.
Conductor562
Well-known member
I would agree with that now, but had they have simply said " look, due to warranty abuse we are changing our warranty to require that a tool must be broken or defective to qualify for a replacement because the only other option we have is to outsource production to China " Who could argue with them? That ship has now sailed, but the fact remains that countless Americans at the Apex factory and others lost their jobs IN PART because of garbage like this douche in the now deleted video.
alpinewhite
Well-known member
The lifetime warranty works for Sears in my case. Since I know that I can return any of the lifetime warranty tools at anytime, I don't bother to do so. My hammer is >25 yrs old and looks like ****. I know I can have it replaced anytime but I don't (yet). In my case, Sears came out ahead.
X2 ^^^^^
but I can kinda tell what the vid was probably about.
I worked 13 years at a Sears in the auto center and swore off of ever giving them another dime for the way they parted company with me, vs how others there were treated (basically, if they fired me, the whole shop should have been canend for the same reason) I was fired christmas week 2001 and have not spent a nickel there since though I do get their product from auctions and flea markets. (at least I am not giving anything to Sears themselves this way I am still pissed) I have thrown away and give naway a bunch of broken craftsman since then, not even wanting to go into their stores.
For the 1st time since, I actually took 8 or 10 broken tools I found in my box last week (extensions with weak springs on the retainer BB's and a couple cracked sockets) Most that I exchanged, I have had for over 20 years.
About half, they had to order for me... still waiting.
When I worked there even the tool dept manager put a 15 tool limit on exchanging broken tools, in any one transaction; and I have seen them deny exchanges for frivolous things like a chip in the chrome...
I did not see a single familiar face in tehre when I was there last week, most were young enough they "could have" been my kids (they aren't, dont go there) My son was 8 when I was fired, now almost 20>> most I saw (even "managers") didnt appear they could be much older than that, the day I went.
One thing I noticed that day i was in there something they used to pound in our heads when I worked there; Used to be a saying over every door you could walk into at every Sears store nation wide; Underthe "SEARS, ROEBUCK and CO" it used to say "Satisfaction Guaranteed or your Money back" It don't say that no more.
Among the employees we always used to say they needed to put an asterisk on teh end of that statement with the following disclaimer below that; "except if you work here" as several of us had "beefs' many legit, that if it were a regular customer they would have made right but if you were an employee it was like, "you don't like it? Too bad youre stuck with it" a regular customer could squeak and ***** and get their way but with an employee making the same complaint? They dug their heels in and said "too bad"
Among the employees we always used to say they needed to put an asterisk on teh end of that statement with the following disclaimer below that; "except if you work here" as several of us had "beefs' many legit, that if it were a regular customer they would have made right but if you were an employee it was like, "you don't like it? Too bad youre stuck with it" a regular customer could squeak and ***** and get their way but with an employee making the same complaint? They dug their heels in and said "too bad"
I didn't get to see the video either, but I assume the guy was exchanging a bunch of used stuff for new? If that's the case, I'm REALLY pissed.
I took a broken ratchet back to Sears this weekend. It still looks new but was slipping under torque. The girl behind the counter said it would only be replaced with a refurbished one. She brought over 3 of them that had refurbished tags on them. 2 of them looked like they had been dragged behind a car for a few miles. The 3rd one was all nicked up and had someones initials carved into it. I didn't have time to hassle with her, so I took my broken one back and said screw you. WTF? Last year I brought another ratchet back and the guy went over to the rack and handed me a new one. I'm going back next week and will either get a new one or I'll cause the biggest friggin scene that place has ever seen. Anyone else run into this?
I took a broken ratchet back to Sears this weekend. It still looks new but was slipping under torque. The girl behind the counter said it would only be replaced with a refurbished one. She brought over 3 of them that had refurbished tags on them. 2 of them looked like they had been dragged behind a car for a few miles. The 3rd one was all nicked up and had someones initials carved into it. I didn't have time to hassle with her, so I took my broken one back and said screw you. WTF? Last year I brought another ratchet back and the guy went over to the rack and handed me a new one. I'm going back next week and will either get a new one or I'll cause the biggest friggin scene that place has ever seen. Anyone else run into this?
petty4243
Well-known member
probably sell on ebay as new items