ah yes, another 6pt vs 12pt

[toolstools]

Someone, please tell me why you feel it is you must use a 12 point on a 6 point bolt. I think its just plain lazy. I don't see how tight space is an excuse either. 6 starting positions means at any one time, you only have to turn the socket 1/12 of a turn to get it to fit. Yes 12. At any one time you are only 1/2 way to a starting point. 30 degress of turning? Someone school me.

 

[Chuck122]

The 12 point socket on 6 point fastener is mostly for when you need to use a breaker bar or if it is inconvenient to use a ratchet. They are also good for those old school guys that use sliding tee bars.

 

[toolstools]

That makes no sence at all to me. Care to rephrase?

 

[abvw]

Because breaker bar.

 

[toolstools]

What a breaker bar have to do with anything?

 

[CWP1616L]

12 points are a little bit faster to engage the fastener; not whole lot faster, but they give you a little bit faster engagement. With today's modern off corner engagement, there's really no reason to use a 6 point anymore.

 

[86k10]

Does it matter? It's just a socket, use it if it works.

 

[Chuck122]

When space is at a premium and the ratchet head does not fit Or it may be necessary to use a non-ratcheting drive tool. In that situation if there is not 60° of swing angle available you need a 12pt socket, which gives you 30° of angle. Cuz you may be able to put it on and spin it but if the angle you spin it is under 60° you will be unable to put the socket back on the fastener to spin it some more If you ask me it's kind of a stretch but hey you know how it is...

 

[toolstools]

12 points are a little bit faster to engage the fastener; not whole lot faster, but they give you a little bit faster engagement. With today's modern off corner engagement, there's really no reason to use a 6 point anymore.

Yes there is. Every tool has a job. 12 points are for 12 point fasteners. Yes it does matter because people aware its theonly thing to use in a tight place.

 

[kossuth]

Plenty of reasons actually. As others mentioned indexing a breaker bar (not often but does occur from time to time so definately viable).

Some guys won't like this but I'll say it being there are plenty of folks that have done it. Sometimes it's the only tool available that will fit over that rusted bolt/nut. I'm guilty, I've smacked one or two onto a well rusted fastener that a 6 point won't bite onto when all else failed and it's good and rounded off. Hey, I had a job to get done and had to make due with what I had onhand.

 

[CWP1616L]

12 points are for 12 point fasteners.

Not necessarily. A 13/16'' 12 point works fantastic on a rounded off 21mm.

 

[abvw]

Yes there is. Every tool has a job. 12 points are for 12 point fasteners. Yes it does matter because people aware its theonly thing to use in a tight place.

Once you start to wrench for a living, you'd use a screwdriver as a prybar or chisel, and whack it with a ratchet. Sometimes, they're the only thing that'll fit, or the first thing you can reach for.

Warrantying a broken tool is a small price to pay for a job done on time.

Edit": I smell troll.

 

[Gmonkee]

Ummm, yeah....

90 years of tool history where 12 pt socket and T bar once ruled the mechanics little world goes down for this?
Really, when the average ratchet had 15 teeth and a sliding tee breaker bar was king of the drive tools, 12 pt made the big difference. ratchets were quite costly up to the 1940's too.
The common sets up to then didn't always carry a ratchet, just the more costly sets.

Now it the times of 45 to 140 T ratchets that advantage is mostly null. Ratchets are much cheaper now too.
I use 72 T ratchets mostly and 6 pt sockets now but own 12 pts too. All still turn bolts.

Read up on a site called Alloy Artifacts and look at what the sets looked like in 1920 or 1930. You may get help there to understand the answers.

 

[fivespdcat]

Seems like you've already made your decision, and it is also inline with your general attitude on this forum. There are more than enough times that using a breaker bar with a 6 point doesn't work out very well. Using your tools is generally the best way to figure out why you need them...

 

[alpinewhite]

Why was a new thread started instead of continuing the current one?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186329

 

[NHBandit]

Why was a new thread started instead of continuing the current one?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186329

I was just wondering the same thing myself. Maybe the guy just likes to argue ? Sure seems that way from some of his prior posts.... Just sayin. So.. Mr "tool" how many years have you been turning wrenches professionally cause you sure have alot of opinions on alot of subjects.

 

[OHMS LAW]

I have some 12pt 3/8s impact sockets and I love them. Does it really matter. Put a socket on the fastener and get the job done. The socket police won't issue a citation on the first offense.

 

[Haveblue]

When space is at a premium and the ratchet head does not fit Or it may be necessary to use a non-ratcheting drive tool. In that situation if there is not 60° of swing angle available you need a 12pt socket, which gives you 30° of angle. Cuz you may be able to put it on and spin it but if the angle you spin it is under 60° you will be unable to put the socket back on the fastener to spin it some more If you ask me it's kind of a stretch but hey you know how it is...

I agree with chuck. I prefer six point on six point fasteners, but in tight areas..certain situations..It only takes a turn or two with a 6 to realize the 12 point will work better.. pull a transfer case out of any truck, the clearance is tight...12 point is the way to go and thats what I grab off the cart.

 

[kc-steve]

Why was a new thread started instead of continuing the current one?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186329

He obviously didn't like the direction yours was going.
12pt sockets should be the starting set for any serious wrencher, just MY opinion.

Steve

 

[young_buck]

try climbing under the screed of a paver to remove kick plates in a tube 16" deep with ZERO visibility and no room to use a flashlight with only a couple inches on either end of your ratchet.

You will appreciate the extra 6 points

Tight space is not an "excuse" to use a 12 point, it is a reason and it is not lazy to use a 12 pt socket on a 6 pt bolt either, it is convenience and makes a job easier to complete, meaning you can move onto the next project (or job) more quickly.

using 12 point sockets with a breaker bar helps a lot, with a 6 point socket there are always those occasions where you need the socket to grip the bolt at a point where a 6 point will not, to gain the leverage or room that your hands need to get enough swing to crack the nut loose.

This forum is full of great people who will be more than happy to help you with any questions you may have, trust me, but being stuck in a one track, generalized mind set isn't going to help anything. Come into it with an open mind and take all information offered in a positive manner and your time on Garage Journal will be a pleasant experience.

 

[Haveblue]

as has been stated, Toolstools. in a shop where time is money..a man buys the tools he needs and uses them any way he can in a quick and efficient manner. Never question the way someone does something when you have no knowledge of how the job should be performed. I dont mean that as an insult to you. This is a great place to learn! Im a mechanic, and everyday I learn something new, on the job, or when I visit here!

 

[refried]

I only use 6 pt. if possible, If there's a a nut that wont turn without indexing I'll put a ratcheting adapter on the breaker bar after breaking it free. It's too easy to round off a nut with a 12pt.

 

[kc-steve]

I only use 6 pt. if possible, If there's a a nut that wont turn without indexing I'll put a ratcheting adapter on the breaker bar after breaking it free. It's too easy to round off a nut with a 12pt.

I think it's only "easy" to round a nut if you don't pick the right size. Just my opinion.

Steve

 

[86k10]

I think it's only "easy" to round a nut if you don't pick the right size. Just my opinion.

Steve

I have to disagree, I have bad experiences with IHC V8 exhaust bolts rather it is on the manifolds or turbo. Just did a exhaust manifold on a MF7 and one of the top bolts I rounded it right off with the proper size (10mm). I even just bought a 6 point 10mm SO wrench yesterday just for the IHC V8.

Don't have much experience with rounding off bolts on other fasteners but exhaust gets rusty and corroded in no time.

 

[refried]

I think it's only "easy" to round a nut if you don't pick the right size. Just my opinion.

Steve

I guess you don't see much hardware in Kansas city thats been exposed to salt water for years.

 

[Haveblue]

I think it's only "easy" to round a nut if you don't pick the right size. Just my opinion.

Steve

I agree! I dont see any issues with 12 point rounding nut or bolts, if the size is correct, and proper methods used. Ive seen kids (that dont work at our shop anymore) use the wrong size with an impact on exhaust, and wind up that fancy new impact they just got...now its ALL FU$%*dD UP!! They dont have a "feel" for what is happening as they loosen or tighten fasteners!! That is the key here!!

 

[tweedlestan]

I guess you don't see much hardware in Kansas city thats been exposed to salt water for years.

You can say that again!

 

[toolstools]

Once you start to wrench for a living, you'd use a screwdriver as a prybar or chisel, and whack it with a ratchet. Sometimes, they're the only thing that'll fit, or the first thing you can reach for.

Warrantying a broken tool is a small price to pay for a job done on time.

Edit": I smell troll.

Troll? How am i a troll?

To another guy, so what if i dont wrench for a Living? I still have useful information,ideas and opnions. I dont have a one track mind and i dont like to start an argument. I give up on this issue. I know its been beat to death.

 

[B17E1943]

 

[refried]

I've been to lots of service schools with guys that have only worked on fresh water boats, they have no idea what salt water will do.

 

[Haveblue]

What Steve means, is the socket that fits right. I work on many rusted exhaust systems on farm trucks that carry a permanent load of mud and cow $h!t under them. Its all about what works. If the manifold nuts, (bolts) are one size, but another can be hammered on and get em off, than thats what needs to be done!

 

[KPSquared]

This thread *****.

 

[tweedlestan]

Troll? How am i a troll?

I'll quote your opening post:

Someone, please tell me why you feel it is you must use a 12 point on a 6 point bolt. I think its just plain lazy. I don't see how tight space is an excuse either. 6 starting positions means at any one time, you only have to turn the socket 1/12 of a turn to get it to fit. Yes 12. At any one time you are only 1/2 way to a starting point. 30 degress of turning? Someone school me.

Either you don't have very much experience, or you're a troll. That's how some people (including me) see it.

 

[NHBandit]

Quote "Someone school me".. This comment by you would seem to indicate that you want to learn from those of us with many years of experience. But then when people tell you why they choose to own both types of sockets all you do is argue about why they are wrong instead of listening. This is what "trolls" do. They post on forums because it's the arguing they are looking for, NOT the education. At some point when this kind of behaviour becomes a pattern people simply ignore you. I hope this polite response has enlightened you in some small way. This place is chuck full of extremely smart folks who are more than happy to help those guys who really are here to learn. Buttt... some of us grumpy old farts don't take kindly to feeling like someone is wasting our time or baiting us into a pointless argument.

 

[toolstools]

Quote "Someone school me".. This comment by you would seem to indicate that you want to learn from those of us with many years of experience. But then when people tell you why they choose to own both types of sockets all you do is argue about why they are wrong instead of listening. This is what "trolls" do. They post on forums because it's the arguing they are looking for, NOT the education. At some point when this kind of behaviour becomes a pattern people simply ignore you. I hope this polite response has enlightened you in some small way. This place is chuck full of extremely smart folks who are more than happy to help those guys who really are here to learn. Buttt... some of us grumpy old farts don't take kindly to feeling like someone is wasting our time or baiting us into a pointless argument.[/QUa

Alls I can say: let by gons be by gons. I do want to learn that's why I am here. I am not a troll. While I can not see the point of the choice I'll take it with a grain of salt and do what I feel best. I am not experiencd enough to see the point. But, suppose that don't effect much lol. Can we get this thing locked or removed?

 

[Haveblue]

6pt vs 12pt = experience, use what works..NOW. You will NOT make a living standing around debating about it! You will learn nothing discussing a pointless topic such as this.. (yes, im guilty of finding it interesting) There is no clearly defined answer as to what tools to use, only experience in certain situations will bring them to light.

 

[AL`]

try climbing under the screed of a paver to remove kick plates in a tube 16" deep with ZERO visibility and no room to use a flashlight with only a couple inches on either end of your ratchet.

You will appreciate the extra 6 points

Tight space is not an "excuse" to use a 12 point, it is a reason and it is not lazy to use a 12 pt socket on a 6 pt bolt either, it is convenience and makes a job easier to complete, meaning you can move onto the next project (or job) more quickly.

using 12 point sockets with a breaker bar helps a lot, with a 6 point socket there are always those occasions where you need the socket to grip the bolt at a point where a 6 point will not, to gain the leverage or room that your hands need to get enough swing to crack the nut loose.

This forum is full of great people who will be more than happy to help you with any questions you may have, trust me, but being stuck in a one track, generalized mind set isn't going to help anything. Come into it with an open mind and take all information offered in a positive manner and your time on Garage Journal will be a pleasant experience.

Thought it might be worth repeating. Good answer Mr. Young Buck. Likewise with the comments about buggered and rusty bolts mentioned by others.

 

[Conductor562]

Tight areas, breaker bars, speed, 12 pt. fasteners, and a pro wrencher could probably name several more. 12 pt. sockets haven't been around for 100 years or so because they are useless. To take such a position is asinine.

After starting my own thread on the subject I opted to go with 6 pt. sockets for 1/4" and 3/8" drive and 12 pt. for 1/2". I expanded my 1/2" so that all but the 3 or 4 largest 1/2" drive sockets are duplicate sizes from my 3/8" set. This made sense to me because smaller fasteners that I will encounter with 1/4" and 3/8" can be turned with a 6 pt. to minimize risk of rounding while I still have a large selection of 12 pts. for 12 pt. fasteners and most of the larger sizes that I have in only 12 pt. don't pose much risk of rounding anyway. The only sizes I have only 12 pt. in are over 1".

No matter what your skill level is, what you think you know, or what you're opinions are, there is someone on GJ that has done more, knows more, and has enough experience to have a more valid opinion. In the future you might consider jumping into posts without alienating everyone who has a different opinion in the first couple of sentences.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

. I know its been beat to death.

^This

 

[redline380]

i think it breaks down to torque. a 6pt fastner that needs a lot of torque will require a 6pt socket so it doesnt get rounded. if it is a relatively small amount of torque, a 12pt will work.

if you know a 6pt fastner is torqued to over 200 ft/lbs, would you grab a 1/2 breaker bar with a 12pt socket? i hope not. goodbye knuckles in that case. using the proper tool for the job is important, but if you grab a 12pt socket for a nut thats only o with 20 ft/lbs, whats the difference?

just remember op, all things are relative