Asbestos Popcorn Ceiling Options?

[littlebritishcar]

A popcorn acoustic ceiling was added to the garage ceiling at some point and it is flaking off. I have not had it tested yet but based on age I am afraid it may have asbestos in it. I would like to get rid of it but what are my options?

 

[Gary S]

I have a friend trained in asbestos abatement. He says that in most cases, safe removal will cost you more than you can afford. He recommends that you seal it in place using approved paints for this purpose.

 

[Randy in Maine]

For about $25 a lab can test it to see if it really does contain asbestos.

If it only a problem if you get it in your lungs.

 

[littlebritishcar]

Don't know when it was sprayed but guessing the late 60s to early 1970s

 

[rockwithjason]

well, there are "legal" and "less than legal" methods of doing this. the legal removal method comes with a hole in your wallet big enough to drive a box truck thru. the sealing paints are the only affordable way to do it legally. if you have a spirit of adventure then you can wet down the coating with a spay can full of water and scrape it off, then seal it in trash bags. the hazard of asbestos is sort of overblown imho. long term exposure by people who worked with the dust over years are where the real problems are at. the home guy who scrapes a ceiling one time in his life isn't in any real danger if he is smart and keeps everything wetted down to hold down the dust. again, just my humble opinion.

 

[Davefr]

If it's asbestos just get a garden sprayer and spray is so it's very wet. Now use a sidewalk scraper to scrape it all off. Wear a mask and make sure you only work with wet asbestos (not dry).

 

[Jackfre]

When I was a kid my next door neighbor was a mechanical contractor. At 16 I was stripping boiler jackets on big boilers. Those jackets were about 12-16" of asbestos with chicken wire laid in for binder. You used a pick and a pair of tin snips. I'd come out at coffee time looking like frosty the snow man blowing wads of that stuff out. No masks or respirators. Asbestos was a wonder drug and was used everywhere. Once it became known that it was harmful I was concerned. I decided to treat it mathematically, you know where two negatives equal a positive, so as a pipe fitter/welder I went into nuclear powerhouse work. After a few shutdowns where I picked up a few "zoomies", as we called the radiation, I figure that the negative aspects of the asbestos are offset by the radiation. At 64 I have nothing to report but I remain convinced that if the left one don't get you then the right one will! Good luck with your ceiling.

 

[Norcal]

Don't know when it was sprayed but guessing the late 60s to early 1970s

If done prior to 1978 it's most likely the "A" word, nothing brings fear like the "A" & "M" (mold) words.

If it was me, I would wet it down & scrape it off, then skim the ceiling w/ drywall mud & do a spray knockdown texture. Sort of like ranchers where wolves were reintroduced, the three "S's", Shoot em, Shovel em, & Shut up.

This is the type of decision that the OP will have to make for themselves.

 

[littlebritishcar]

I have an ideal. I been thinking about doing a corrugated tin ceiling when I remodel. What if I paint the acoustic with that sealer paint then screw the corrugated panels over it?

 

[WhyMe]

pump sprayer with warm water. wet down till it absorbs water. drywall knife and scrape. thousands, if not millions of rooms have been done this way.

 

[Modern Jess]

If you want to do the removal yourself, and you want to at least attempt some semblance of "correct" removal, here are some comprehensive instructions regarding the procedure. Note that these are fairly in-depth and very detailed:

PDF: http://www.pscleanair.org/regulated/asbestos/homeowners/asb-popcorn.pdf

 

[jdsac]

You have good advice. The drywall guys just use a garden hose & mist it until it's wet, scrape it & let it drop onto some thin plastic. Don't scrape anything that is dry- it's the particles in the air that if asbestos are potentially harmful.
Wear a mask & take a cool shower after. Hot shower opens your pores & allows
fiber in. Do it with the door down- your neighbors & passer bys don't need to see you. Dispose of it in your trash can.
What ever you do DON'T call any agency for advise (caller I.D.) if you do it the way they would require it will cost a LOT plus there would be a record of your house having had asbestos (if that's the case).
When in doubt follow the Schultz method:

 

[Kevin54]

well, there are "legal" and "less than legal" methods of doing this. the legal removal method comes with a hole in your wallet big enough to drive a box truck thru. the sealing paints are the only affordable way to do it legally. if you have a spirit of adventure then you can wet down the coating with a spay can full of water and scrape it off, then seal it in trash bags. the hazard of asbestos is sort of overblown imho. long term exposure by people who worked with the dust over years are where the real problems are at. the home guy who scrapes a ceiling one time in his life isn't in any real danger if he is smart and keeps everything wetted down to hold down the dust. again, just my humble opinion.

If it's asbestos just get a garden sprayer and spray is so it's very wet. Now use a sidewalk scraper to scrape it all off. Wear a mask and make sure you only work with wet asbestos (not dry).

This^^^

If it has been painted over a few times though, forget it. The paint will seal a lot of water from soaking it enough to get off. Try a small area with a small bottle of spray water and see if it peels easy with a putty knife. If it does, then get a garden sprayer with water and the scraper and go for it. It pays to be safe, but your parents and grandparents more than likely works around more asbestos than you will ever see. Just use caution, be safe, and keep it wet or damp and you'll be fine. Asbestos is only bad if you breathe in dry dust floating around in the air. It's not going to turn you into a leper if you touch it. A lot of people blow it so far out of proportion that they make a person feel like you shouldn't be in the same state.

 

[bighouse01]

Put plastic down so you can roll up the messy wet down scrapings easily.

-or-

Sheetrock over it.

 

[Randy in Maine]

Do yourself a favor and read this....

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...J04wRk9oSuOOPAasERBg_BA&bvm=bv.42768644,d.dmQ

There are usually some exemptions in the NESHAP requirements for a single family home where the homeowner will likely only do one in his life, but proper disposal is still required.

DO NOT JUST PUT IT IN YOUR TRASH.

 

[38Chevy454]

well, there are "legal" and "less than legal" methods of doing this. the legal removal method comes with a hole in your wallet big enough to drive a box truck thru. the sealing paints are the only affordable way to do it legally. if you have a spirit of adventure then you can wet down the coating with a spay can full of water and scrape it off, then seal it in trash bags. the hazard of asbestos is sort of overblown imho. long term exposure by people who worked with the dust over years are where the real problems are at. the home guy who scrapes a ceiling one time in his life isn't in any real danger if he is smart and keeps everything wetted down to hold down the dust. again, just my humble opinion.

If it's asbestos just get a garden sprayer and spray is so it's very wet. Now use a sidewalk scraper to scrape it all off. Wear a mask and make sure you only work with wet asbestos (not dry).

pump sprayer with warm water. wet down till it absorbs water. drywall knife and scrape. thousands, if not millions of rooms have been done this way.

You have good advice. The drywall guys just use a garden hose & mist it until it's wet, scrape it & let it drop onto some thin plastic. Don't scrape anything that is dry- it's the particles in the air that if asbestos are potentially harmful.
Wear a mask & take a cool shower after. Hot shower opens your pores & allows
fiber in. Do it with the door down- your neighbors & passer bys don't need to see you. Dispose of it in your trash can.
What ever you do DON'T call any agency for advise (caller I.D.) if you do it the way they would require it will cost a LOT plus there would be a record of your house having had asbestos (if that's the case).
When in doubt follow the Schultz method:

Put plastic down so you can roll up the messy wet down scrapings easily.

-or-

Sheetrock over it.

This method works, is relatively easy to do yourself. Just wet it down and scrape it off. Wear a dust mask for extra safety. Don't overthink this.

 

[ThomasWinfrey]

I have a friend trained in asbestos abatement. He says that in most cases, safe removal will cost you more than you can afford. He recommends that you seal it in place using approved paints for this purpose.

Thanks Gary.

 

[dw1]

A popcorn acoustic ceiling was added to the garage ceiling at some point and it is flaking off. I have not had it tested yet but based on age I am afraid it may have asbestos in it. I would like to get rid of it but what are my options?

AS stated above, I double bagged a sample and sent it off:
http://asbestostesting.com/
Check with your state regulations and see what you are able to dispose of legally!! I just tore a house down that had asbestos siding on it, I (It) met the criteria for me to dispose of it in the landfill and not have to be abated, this job was permitted and inspected.

 

[billspit]

In SC, a homeowner can remove his own asbestos. It does have to be properly disposed, which means you have to notify the environmental agency where you want to dispose of it.

BTW, get it tested.

 

[The Cobbler]

Every house built prior to the 20th millennium likely has asbestos in varying degrees.
If the popcorn is falling off it probably is loose all over.as a homeowner I would wet it and scrape it off onto plastic tarps and roll it up and dispose.buy a good mask intended for asbestos . asbestos either kills you or it has no effect on you, there's no inbetween really. asbestos is the hot topic these days. I remember in the 60's my Uncle cut a piece of asbestos to put beside the furnace , he said not to breathe the dust cause it's bad for you. they knew back then the dangers of it but it was a good product so it was used for many years .

 

[rlitman]

...buy a good mask intended for asbestos ...

That would be an N100 or P100 rated mask FYI. P100 is preferred if you're doing the wet removal method. Those 3m masks with the pink filters generally fit the bill. A tyvek suit, or disposable clothing is probably a good idea too if you're doing a substantial amount of removal.

BTW, if you're wetting down the asbestos, I recommend adding a little dish soap to the water. Not enough to make it foamy, but just enough to break the surface tension. It wets out much better.

In SC, a homeowner can remove his own asbestos. It does have to be properly disposed, which means you have to notify the environmental agency where you want to dispose of it.

BTW, get it tested.

In most places, a homeowner can remove their own asbestos. Yes, it must be properly disposed of. In NYS (and in most states for that matter), every town is required to have a way for homeowners to dispose of household hazardous waste. In my town, they have around 10 days a year that they accept drop-offs of household hazmat. Asbestos just needs to be wet, and double bagged to be accepted. NO notification is required.

I would advise against testing. Just handle it safely and remember that the assumption of asbestos is better for you than the positive finding of it in a test.

 

[RVDan]

The problem with getting it tested is that it's difficult to get them to be honest. I took in three samples, one of which was from my garage which was done in 1998 and they all came back as 1% asbestos content. The testing place is just covering their *** by labeling it as asbestos even if it isn't.

 

[rlitman]

The problem with getting it tested is that it's difficult to get them to be honest. I took in three samples, one of which was from my garage which was done in 1998 and they all came back as 1% asbestos content. The testing place is just covering their *** by labeling it as asbestos even if it isn't.

Perhaps. Or perhaps there is just more asbestos in things than most people would believe. It's all around us, but it's also mostly nothing to be concerned with.

 

[Backyard Imports]

The problem with getting it tested is that it's difficult to get them to be honest. I took in three samples, one of which was from my garage which was done in 1998 and they all came back as 1% asbestos content. The testing place is just covering their *** by labeling it as asbestos even if it isn't.

In my area this wouldn't even matter. The threshold is 3% before the EPA cares. I got this info from my buddy that does asbestos removal for a living. We ran into it in this house that was built in the early 40's. I still took precautions when removing it. It wasn't popcorn ceilings though, it was just in the joint compound on the drywall.

As far as popcorn goes, we had asbestos popcorn ceilings in our condo that was built in 1978. When we were updating it to get more money out of it (we rent it out) we got estimates for removal. The numbers were crazy. What we ended up doing is hiring a drywall company to come in and cover it. I think they used 1/4" thick sheets. All said and done, it lowered the ceiling around 3/8" (from the face of the popcorn). It looks great and was a fraction of the cost of removal.

 

[strutaeng]

Why can't you just screw some 1x4 furring strips and cover with new gypsum board? You'll lose a few inches of headroom, but so what.

I wouldn't mess around removing (if it tested positive) it unless I trained myself on the proper measures, which surely you can find online. I recall I worked on this renovation where a portion of the ceiling on a church collapsed. It turned out only the mud had asbestos, but not the popcorn. The insurance company paid for the abatement.

 

[Casey69]

well, there are "legal" and "less than legal" methods of doing this. the legal removal method comes with a hole in your wallet big enough to drive a box truck thru. the home guy who scrapes a ceiling one time in his life isn't in any real danger if he is smart and keeps everything wetted down to hold down the dust. again, just my humble opinion.

agreed, but (iirc) since he's the homeowner, he can do the "abatement" himself w/out running afoul of the authorities.

like another poster mentioned, try a small test area to see if it's easily removed. if so, i'd get a good respirator, get the ceiling moist, then have at it. really shouldn't take long to remove once you get started.

 

[billspit]

The problem with getting it tested is that it's difficult to get them to be honest. I took in three samples, one of which was from my garage which was done in 1998 and they all came back as 1% asbestos content. The testing place is just covering their *** by labeling it as asbestos even if it isn't.

Yes they are. Reporting 1% means they saw an asbestos fiber in each of the samples.

 

[Daedalus]

OP, get it tested. For $30 it's worth a shot. I bet the odds are fair it's not asbestos, as the stuff cost more, so wasn't used unless someone really wanted it. Worst case, you're out $30. Best case, you have peace of mind and won't have to worry about it.

I've sent 6 samples from my 1940s home at different times to western analytics. Only 1 came back positive for 1-3% asbestos, and this was in the mastic holding the ceiling tiles in the kitchen/dining room. I paid an abatement company for a guy to spend 2 days chipping away all the tiles and the mastic off the plaster ceiling. He double bagged the entire room (walls and floor) and vented everything out 1 window through a large tube into a HEPA filter box. Cost me $1000. Not money I wanted to spend, but it definitely wasn't unaffordable.

And on the flipside, a lot of folks think maybe we've gone too far overboard with the asbestos warnings. The guys working with the dust for 20 years might be in trouble, but a 1-time popcorn ceiling removal maybe isn't too big a deal. FWIW I kinda think the guy who removed my ceiling didn't even wear a respirator or a suit. He said he did (it's required), but I never saw him go in or out with anything other than street clothes.

 

[rburke65]

But if you send in a sample, then they have your name and adress just like if you call then thy have your number. My opinion, if it comes off easily I ththe spray water, I'd takeit off. If not...paint and screw your metal ceiling to it.

 

[crguy]

I took all of mine off, even some newer stuff that didn't have asbestos. Did a room at a time over a period of time. Then sprayed a new light knockdown texture.
A lot of home buyers nowdays are aware of the asbestos issue. It can come up when you're trying to sell your house, and cost you big money to have it abated at the time of the sale.
If you do it now, there will be no problem later.

 

[billspit]

But if you send in a sample, then they have your name and adress just like if you call then thy have your number. My opinion, if it comes off easily I ththe spray water, I'd takeit off. If not...paint and screw your metal ceiling to it.

The lab has your name, not a state regulatory agency. After 30 days, they will dispose of the sample.

 

[tcianci]

Just board and tape over it. No test, no mess, no disposal. Plus it's likely that you will spend less time taping a new ceiling than you will repairing the one you scraped

 

[PDM]

LBC...you state it's in the garage, so that's easier than being inside a living space.

First check your area regulation and rules about removal and disposal. It varies all across the world. (we have VERY strict rules about Asbestos removal here in B.C. and no contractors in 2017 will touch a house with asbestos in it as per Workers Comp. rules.

But as others have noted.... the danger lies in breathing in the fibers..... - not in touching it (or even ingesting it) The fibers get into the lungs and over time cause issues (cancer)

I was told AFTER I just went through Asbestos Abatement in my very large reno that technically in B.C. the homeowner can legally remove the asbestos on your own....and the wetting down and scraping was the proper method.

HOWEVER the issue up here for me is disposal as no land fill will accept ANY drywall in the Lowermainland without a certified and inspection verified document stating that the waste you are dropping off does NOT contain asbestos.

PLUS my legit contractor would not continue working on my build without having proper removal of all drywall, mud and asbestos in the affected area...... so I was damned if I tried to remove myself with delaying the build, disposal of the drywall, and still having legal responsibility to my contractor to ensure all was safely removed. (not to mention risk delaying my already behind schedule reno by trying to remove it ourselves......... what's the saying...happy wife..... happy life ??)

Our house was sealed off from the entire basement, all vents and doors with a pathway straight to a disposal bin....heat and all shut off for 2 days while the temps dropped below -16 C...and a full crew in hazmat suites with purifying machines filtered the air while they removed all the drywall from our basement ceilings and walls.

Final cost..... a lot. (this company came in the cheapest at $18K Cad for removal and disposal.... - we had others as high as $40K in quotes) So yeah.... it's not cheap for the pro's to remove.

Was it in our scope and budget ? nope. In all by the time we add new insulation, electrical and water (to bring us up to new codes) and drywall with mud, primer and paint - it blew my budget open by over $30k.

But having piece of mind that my family can live in an asbestos free house is something you can't put a price on.

don

 

[58Yeoman]

I worked as a mechanic through high school, later went to college to be a mechanic. I quit that job and went to work in a factory for 40 years. In the 70's and 80's when things were slow, we stripped old piping of the asbestos coverings and took down the pipes. We seldom, if ever, wore masks. No asbestos related problems with me now, and I'm retired for almost 3 years.

My sister, on the other hand (one year older than me), died of mesothelioma in 2013. The closest that she got to asbestos (that we know of), was being married for a time to a mechanic, then later to a handyman. Neither of them has a problem.

I think it's like all cancers...some people are affected and some not.

 

[rlitman]

I worked as a mechanic through high school, later went to college to be a mechanic. I quit that job and went to work in a factory for 40 years. In the 70's and 80's when things were slow, we stripped old piping of the asbestos coverings and took down the pipes. We seldom, if ever, wore masks. No asbestos related problems with me now, and I'm retired for almost 3 years.

My sister, on the other hand (one year older than me), died of mesothelioma in 2013. The closest that she got to asbestos (that we know of), was being married for a time to a mechanic, then later to a handyman. Neither of them has a problem.

I think it's like all cancers...some people are affected and some not.

Exposure does not guarantee disease, but it does shift the odds. Asbestos is easily carried home on clothing invisibly.

The problem is that the decades between exposure and disease, blur the evidence, and make it just about impossible to correlate the two.

 

[btdobie]

Whatever you do, don't test it. Plausible deniability is your friend. As others have said wet it down, scrape it off, and send it to a land fill. Once it is in a landfill it will be burried underground where it came from in the first place. While it is unlikely that a single exposure will cause harm, I would still wear a respirator and throw away the clothes you wear.

 

[billspit]

HOWEVER the issue up here for me is disposal as no land fill will accept ANY drywall in the Lowermainland without a certified and inspection verified document stating that the waste you are dropping off does NOT contain asbestos.


don

Oh the irony. Most of the chrysotile in a finished ceiling is from CANADA!!

 

[millsrv]

If it's asbestos just get a garden sprayer and spray is so it's very wet. Now use a sidewalk scraper to scrape it all off. Wear a mask and make sure you only work with wet asbestos (not dry).

I believe that this is excellent advice and have done this myself. Or last house had popcorn in every room except the bathrooms. The house was built in 1969 so it may not have been the asbestos kind?? I did the entire hose myself one room at a time. You really need to spend a lot of time covering the floor with plastic and then soak the stuff with warm water and let it soak in for 30 minutes. It comes off so easy you won't believe it. The tape joints on the drywall looked pristine. New texture, primer, and paint and wow, no more popcorn!

I will never again buy or even look at a house that has that kind of texture, that stuff is horrible and a deal killer as far as I am concerned. I think it was used as a labor saving way to texture ceilings.

 

[pcmeiners]

"Just board and tape over it. No test, no mess, no disposal."
When you sell a home lawyers can add a clause making you responsible for the cost of removal of any asbestos found after the home is sold. Remove the **** now if it test positive for asbestos.