Just bought a mill... now what do I do!?

[FastKat]

I bought this mill last week. It's a Cincinnati vertical mill, I believe from 1947. I think the model is "0-8". It is built like a tank. Actually, it's built like a tank was built back when things were made to last.

I have never owned a mill, but I have a general gist of how one works. The machine came with no tooling, except a single end mill installed in the... not sure that that's called... end mill holder? I see collet thrown around a lot, but it looks more like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281062851070&item=281062851070&vectorid=229466

A monoset collet? What is that, and what does it mean for me?

The machine also came with a vice, which seems self explanatory. I plan on hooking up the power tomorrow and getting it running. I sprayed down the bare metal areas with WD40 when I got it home. It was kept in a nice garage, but got just a little wet on the ride home.

The machine also has a power X-axis table and an oil/coolant circulation system, where a movable spout pours oil onto the work area and the base acts as a recovery basin and sump. I think I'll leave these features alone until I start to get the basics down.

So where do I start? Is there a set of instructional videos I should watch? Or maybe a book that I should read? Can't wait to get started!

Thanks, -Dave

 

[sharkytm]

A) Find a machinist locally, and have them show you the ropes.
B) Buy a machining textbook (the older the better), and read up.

Basically, you need to figure out how to clamp your work down, how to select a speed and feed for the material/tool, and how to measure things so you can be accurate. Three items that you'll chase for the rest of your life.
Oh, and no gloves (other than nitrile), wear eye protection, and no handling chips barehanded.

 

[P0234]

Just like anyone learning for the first time, start out making a bong, knife or gun. (man do I miss shop class antics)

 

[454ragtop]

That's a strange one! Does the table only move left to right? Don't see any means to move it in-out, up-down. First thought was it was a Cinncinati Bickford drill, but that wouldn't have a power feed on the X axis. Hopefully someone will chime in who is more familiar with these. Might ask about it on OWWM and Practical Machinist (antique forum!).
HTH, Jim

 

[FastKat]

Thanks for all the practical info guys. You just doubled my knowledge of mills.

The table moves on the X-axis, and the whole top of the machine (the ram?) moves on a set of beefy dovetails in the Y-axis. The quill moves up and down along the Z-axis.

It is belt drive, and like many drill presses I've used, moving the belt from pulley to pulley changes the engine speed from 150rpm to... hm, not sure what the top speed is.

 

[454ragtop]

Dave, does the ram have a handwheel and graduated dial? Usually the ram is moved to the desired position and locked down, with no allowance made for moving it while cutting. I'm afraid you may be very limited in what you can do with that "mill". Wouldn't mind seeing more pics showing some of the details.
Jim

 

[zkling]

I believe that is called a "production mill". They also made a horizontal 0-8 which is much more common. It is kind of limited in the home shop due to the lack of a knee and thus long z travel and limited y axis travel. I believe the head transverses on dovetails to facilitate the y axis movement, more for positioning than milling. It will however excel at cutting slots and the like. Cincinnati did not make junk, so you don't have to worry about that.

You may want to hop over to the practical machinist forum. I know a few guys over there own one. A quick google search and I couldn't find a free manual for it. Here is a non free one though. May be worth the cost depending on quality. http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/CINC...-8-Model-EA-OT-Service-Part-Manual_p_130.html

Hopefully you won't need any parts for it as I have read they are really hard if not impossible to come by.

As for learning how to use it... Do you know any retired machinist that would be willing to donate their time? Running this will be a little different than a standard bridgeport, but the same principles apply (cutting speed, feed rate, etc).

 

[FastKat]

If I remember correctly, there is a handwheel that moves the ram back and forth. There is also a graduated dial at the handwheel. The ram does have a lock. The ram also has a set of stops that can be placed at either end of the ram's travel which can be set to limit the ram's travel in either direction.

I'm going to take a some pictures tomorrow and post them up. I've figured out how most of the controls work, but there are still a few that stump me. In the meantime, you can look at these pictures - this machine is pretty much the same as my machine, except mine has the coolant bath parts.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cincinnati-Vertical-Mill-with-Phase-Converter-Model-1400-/130852117080

Dave, does the ram have a handwheel and graduated dial? Usually the ram is moved to the desired position and locked down, with no allowance made for moving it while cutting. I'm afraid you may be very limited in what you can do with that "mill". Wouldn't mind seeing more pics showing some of the details.
Jim

 

[spongerich]

There's some info on Cincinnati milling machines over at owwm.com http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=2097

If the collet is an oddball size, be prepared to spend a bunch of money on a set.
Worst case, look for one that's got a Jacobs taper and install a chuck. It won't be as good as a using a collet, but you can at least get started that way.. it'll also make a fine drill press.

 

[iron_worker]

Check out Keith Fenner, MrPete222 (ie Tubalcain), or JohnNYCCNC on Youtube. I believe they all have over 200 videos and all are very educational. I have watched all of their videos and have learned tons.

The Machinist Handbook is also a great reference that no machinist should be without.

That's a beefy machine you got there. It may be somewhat limited in it's capabilities but still could be very useful for a lot of projects.

IW

 

[ilovevocs]

Here is a great intro series from MIT. This is video one of..i belive 8.

http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/142-machine-shop-1

 

[Davefr]

Check out Keith Fenner, MrPete222 (ie Tubalcain), or JohnNYCCNC on Youtube. I believe they all have over 200 videos and all are very educational. I have watched all of their videos and have learned tons.

The Machinist Handbook is also a great reference that no machinist should be without.


IW

The other video series that's excellent is Darrell Holland. (There's a series for mill and lathe)

 

[larry_g]

As zkling said that is a production mill that is to be set up with the Z and Y axis fixed in one position and then do the same machining process on thousands of parts all the same. Think like many shafts that need a keyway or a flat machined on them. I don't know for sure but I doubt if that machine is made to cut while moving the head in the Y coordinate.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[FastKat]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys - keep 'em coming!

I just submitted my registration at Practical Machinist - that seems like a good forum for more specific info.

Yea, I understand that machine isn't full of great/modern features and is production-oriented, but it seems like a good enough place for me to start. I think I did okay for $300.

Unfortunately, I don't know any machinists around where I live that would let me watch them work, teach me, etc. I have went into a couple places for quotes, but that's about it. Maybe I'll stop by there and see what I can do.

Oh, and all of those videos look good too!

 

[AndyA]

At $300, that's a good deal even if you just use it as a drill press.

 

[Cryptic1911]

Check out Keith Fenner, MrPete222 (ie Tubalcain), or JohnNYCCNC on Youtube. I believe they all have over 200 videos and all are very educational. I have watched all of their videos and have learned tons.

The Machinist Handbook is also a great reference that no machinist should be without.

That's a beefy machine you got there. It may be somewhat limited in it's capabilities but still could be very useful for a lot of projects.

IW

^ Yup, I've watched a bunch of tubalcain's videos.. very informative. He's an old shop class instructor, so he gets right to the point. I'll have to check out the others

as for the the machinery's handbook, try this link: http://www.brightonk12.com/webpages/mjourden/general.cfm?subpage=1305723

 

[ScubaSteve]

That is the mother of all Mill-Drills!

This is a great way to start out.....get your feet wet machining some stuff....with some creative fixturing you may be able to get around the Y axis, at least for a while.

I wouldn't go nuts investing in special collets or tooling in that unique taper. Enjoy the mill, work with it....then when/IF you ever outgrow it, sell it for twice what you paid (minus the vise) and it'll STILL be a good deal for the next guy....

 

[383 240z]

Superflex Collets work in the Monoset. I have a Cincinnati Toolmaster. The Superflex's are not cheap, I expect to pay at least $25 each when I can find them. I have paid as much as $60 each for them. I did luck out and get a set of 10 in 1/4" increments for $200. They are on eBay all the time but not cheap a 3/4", 1/2" and a MT 3 taper will take care of 90% of the tooling I use.

 

[MarkG]

Brave guy, buying a big beast like that without any milling experience! Nothing like jumping in with both feet.

I'm kinda the opposite-----I research everything to death before purchasing. Especially easy to do in this 'information age', so why not?

But like you said, if it's not what you thought, you can probably resell. I probably would look for something more common like a Bridgeport 2J, but I'll probably never buy a mill of my own anyway. I did enjoy the machining classes I've had, though.

 

[FastKat]

Thanks again for all the info guys.

I've been busy with other stuff and haven't had a chance to get to the mill - I hope to move it across the shop to it's permanent spot, and then put a plug on it and see how it runs.

I am a little concerned about lubrication and maintenance. There appears to be some sort of broken sightglass on the front of the machine. I am wondering if it has something to do with a system that keeps the spindle/quill lubricated? I really need to find a manual somewhere so I don't ruin it!

Brave guy, buying a big beast like that without any milling experience! Nothing like jumping in with both feet.

Yea, I was really leaning towards a Harbor Freight mill that had a similar X, Y, and Z axis travel. This Cincinnati mill is built so much better than the HF model, I don't even know where to start. It was really a no-brainer for me!

 

[KMScott]

I would guess it is 3-phase machine and it would not surprise me that the Y axis can be moved by a power feed lever. The X looks like it is power feed. Most Cincinnati's I ran had power feed, even the old ones. Figure out how to remove the tool holder then you can find a few on e-bay. The tool holder should have a taper in it above the flange, the draw bar is above, close to the pulleys and after loosening it you might have to tap the draw bar to drop the collet. Take your time, use sharp cutters, and get a good hold of your work piece and you will have a ball.

 

[MarkG]

This guy could help you for sure!!

Hey FastKat, it just occurred to me to refer you to this guy's You Tube channel if you haven't seen it yet! Keith Fenner, Turnwright Machine Works. He has a lot of experience in the field and has great vids on everything machining! I love watching them. Check it out----he could probably get you going in the right direction!

http://www.youtube.com/user/KEF791?feature=watch

 

[nine4gmc]

I think I just got the same mill, in for info!!

 

[cnc-me]

Looks like it has a #40 NMTB spindle, which is the easiest to find tool holders for.

 

[FastKat]

Well, it took almost a couple months, but I am getting close to starting this thing up. I cleaned it up for the most part. The work area had cutting oil baked on that I couldn't get off, and that's fine. Today we moved the machine over to where it will be wired up. It shouldn't be long now!

 

[kazlx]

Looking good man. Way better than before. Then you'll wonder what you did without one.

 

[FastKat]

The power has been run, an electrical cord has been put on, and everything works! The spindle spins, the coolant pump works, and the table feed works both in both directions and in both speeds. Everything sounds nice and quiet and smooth.

I didn't have much time at the end of the day, so I clamped a big bolt in the vise and made a few passes on the head. It cut effortlessly, even with an old beat up endmill.

Now I have to get a clamp-down kit and find some projects to do!

I think this was a winner, unlike the Atlas TH-54 10" lathe that I bought at an estate sale... that one is being sold for parts. Can't win 'em all.

 

[kazlx]

That thing is definitely a beast. You should be able to hog on that bad boy.

 

[Brunow]

Sweet small mill!!

First thing to do is build make your own tooling.
Angle plate, Clamp sets, ...

Some idea's:

Good luck!

 

[Kevin54]

Bruno.....nice job on the angle plate. I am assuming that it is not a precision Sine Plate though, but more for machining angles? Do you have a drawing of it?

 

[zoowho2]

I bought this mill last week. It's a Cincinnati vertical mill, I believe from 1947. I think the model is "0-8". It is built like a tank. Actually, it's built like a tank was built back when things were made to last.

I have never owned a mill, but I have a general gist of how one works. The machine came with no tooling, except a single end mill installed in the... not sure that that's called... end mill holder? I see collet thrown around a lot, but it looks more like this:


Make sure it is well clean and lubed, adjusted and safe from movement.
Then LEARN HOW TO SAFELY CLAMP THE WORK PIECE, repeat after me....LEARN HOW TO CLAMP THE WORK PIECE and make sure it stays that way. Nothing will waste ruin, damage or destroy a workpiece faster or more severley than having it come loose or slip, move or fly off the mill. Now you may begin...