Strange Electrical problem Electrical Newbie

[Threadkiller]

Hi all, I have a strange electrical problem going on in my garage. Strange at least to me, I am a first time homeowner, I am 29 years old and my knowledge of home wiring and electrical is very novice at best.

Onto the problem. Long story short, out of nowhere the electrical outlets in my garage dont work. First thing I did was check the breaker of course, not tripped. So first thing I assume is the breaker went bad. So I took another 15 amp breaker (for the garage lights and I knew it was working) and I switched it out for the garage outlets breaker, still nothing. I take the breaker I thought was bad and switch it to the garage lights slot and it works. So now I am stuck. Both breakers are good, nothings tripped, oh and there are no GFI outlets in the garage. Being the electrical newbie that I am, I am at a loss. If anyone has any ideas it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Teken]

Go to the beginning of the circuit and measure if there is voltage. Continue down this path and report back as to what you find.

You may find a loose wire, blown outlet, etc. Also just because you don't see a GFCI in the garage doesn't mean there isn't one in the house that is wired to the circuit. Check all the outlets in the home no matter how odd or strange.

Also turn all the breakers on and off and ensure they snap into place and are not in mid position.

Teken . . .

 

[2Big2Ride]

Check the first outlet on the circuit - it may have the connections for the remainder of the circuit connected at the first outlet, either to the screws or back stabbed and the outlet failed.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

More info. Garage attached or detached? How old is the house? Are the breakers in the garage? or on the main house panel? If in the garage, maybe there is a tripped breaker in the main house panel. Did you look for a GFIC outlet somewhere in the house? in the basement? near the main panel that is tripped? Do you know in what order the garage outlets are wired? Check the wiring on the first outlet (switch the breaker off first, then pull the outlet out of the box and look for a loose wire).

Keep us posted.

 

[Steve.S]

Check all the GFCI outlets in your house, even if they aren't located near the garage. Good chance you'll find one tripped. These are installed so that they are nearest to the breaker panel in the circuit and protect the "downstream" outlets.

 

[pattenp]

Depending on how old the house is the garage outlets should be GFCI protected. Look for a GFCI outlet elsewhere that the garage outlets are downstream from.

 

[Zelatore]

Did anybody suggest checking GFCI breakers everywhere in the house?

Sorry, but it's true. For example, the one in my upstairs bathroom also takes out the garage and the back porch exterior outlet if it trips. Odd grouping, but that's the way they did it.

 

[sparky36000]

Did anybody suggest checking GFCI breakers everywhere in the house?

Sorry, but it's true. For example, the one in my upstairs bathroom also takes out the garage and the back porch exterior outlet if it trips. Odd grouping, but that's the way they did it.

Very common when I wired houses and apartments in the 80's. GFI's were still fairly expensive, so one was installed in the bathroom and all other areas that were required by code at that time to be protected by GFI, were fed down stream from it.

 

[Threadkiller]

Ok Maybe I was a little preemptive in my posting for help on the issue. However I wouldnt have known/thought to look at the first outlet on the circuit had it not been for everyones help. I thank everyone for their input.

Turns out the first outlet on the circuit in the garage IS a GFI outlet, however there is a huge plug plugged into that outlet for my water softener. Its been there since I moved in. It was covering the GFI buttons. I assumed until about 5 minutes ago that it was just a regular outlet.

Thank you to everyone as this was driving me insane. I knew what GFI outlets were for, but I didnt know they also protected the entire circuit. I thought they just tripped themselves if something was overloaded in that one outlet.

Thanks again! I can sleep tonight!!!!!

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

If garage is attached check mud room/laundry room directly inside of house for gfi,ive found lots of them wired that way in newer houses over the years

 

[madosta]

Glad you found it!

 

[Teken]

Ok Maybe I was a little preemptive in my posting for help on the issue. However I wouldnt have known/thought to look at the first outlet on the circuit had it not been for everyones help. I thank everyone for their input.

Turns out the first outlet on the circuit in the garage IS a GFI outlet, however there is a huge plug plugged into that outlet for my water softener. Its been there since I moved in. It was covering the GFI buttons. I assumed until about 5 minutes ago that it was just a regular outlet.

Thank you to everyone as this was driving me insane. I knew what GFI outlets were for, but I didnt know they also protected the entire circuit. I thought they just tripped themselves if something was overloaded in that one outlet.

Thanks again! I can sleep tonight!!!!!

First glad you found it. Next, you should determine why it tripped.

1. Is it because there is a fault? If so, determine why and resolve it.

2. If you believe the GFCI is getting old and defective. Replace it and be on your way knowing its using the latest tech to protect you and the device attached.

3. GFCI detect the imbalance of current flowing to ground. Make sure the immediate area is free of water and hazards.

Teken . . .

 

[ddawg16]

Another satisfied customer.....

But it does raise an interesting question...what is better....GFIC outlets of GFIC breakers?

Another topic for another thread...

 

[Milton Shaw]

Gcfi's can be wired so that each outlet trips only itself, or wired so that one outlet protects every other outlet. My daughters garage is wired with a GCFI at each outlet so that when it trips it does not turn off everything else in the garage/shop.. With GCFI's running under $10 each the last time I bought one, if doing it now I would put one in each outlet set up to be independent of each other. In other words both line and load wires are wired to the line connections and nothing is wired to the load connections.

 

[Kevin54]

A lot of GFCI's and their location is dependent on how the electrician wired them in. Ours are in some screwy places, but the house was passed to code. Our bathroom is on a kitchen wall. The garage is on another kitchen wall. The second bathroom does not have one at all. Half the time, I think that a lot of backs got scratched to get things done.

 

[Threadkiller]

First glad you found it. Next, you should determine why it tripped.

1. Is it because there is a fault? If so, determine why and resolve it.

2. If you believe the GFCI is getting old and defective. Replace it and be on your way knowing its using the latest tech to protect you and the device attached.

3. GFCI detect the imbalance of current flowing to ground. Make sure the immediate area is free of water and hazards.


Teken . . .

Thats a good question. Ive been living in the house since late October and this is the first time anythings tripped. I was welding on that circuit earlier before all the outlets stopped working, but after I welded I also had the battery charger for my cordless drill plugged in and I know it was working well after I was finished with the welder.




How would I know if its defective? Should I just change it? Its only ~8-9 years old, and isnt low to the ground or near anyplace that seems to get damp. Plus it hasnt rained/snowed here for at least a week

 

[Teken]

Thats a good question. Ive been living in the house since late October and this is the first time anythings tripped. I was welding on that circuit earlier before all the outlets stopped working, but after I welded I also had the battery charger for my cordless drill plugged in and I know it was working well after I was finished with the welder.




How would I know if its defective? Should I just change it? Its only ~8-9 years old, and isnt low to the ground or near anyplace that seems to get damp. Plus it hasnt rained/snowed here for at least a week

1. First thing is remove the device from the wall and ensure all connections are firmly tighten down. If the previous owner used the back stab method, use the side terminals instead. The only time you should use a back stab is if the design of the GFCI / Outlet allows you to tighten the back stab with a screw. This type of back stab is safe, and reliable.

2. Once the GFCI has been checked to be properly grounded and line / neutral is confirmed wired right. Use the test switch on the outlet and reset it 8-10 times with a load attached.

If it kills the power each time, and also resets the switch fine move on.

3. Purchase a plug in GFCI tester. These devices are a life saver and every home owner should have one. Again, plug something in the outlet and than trip the device with the tester. It should instantly trip and kill the power if it does than you're good to go. You will do this 8-10 times to ensure its not *one time lucky*

The benefit of the tester is that it will confirm several states. Bad ground, reversed wiring, power / no power, etc.

Based on your initial feed back it could very well be that the switch was just over loaded or the welder had enough leakage to cause a nuisance trip.

If so, worry not and move on . . .

If in doubt just spend the $20.** for a quality Leviton, Hubble, Cooper unit and know you're using the best and latest tech to protect you, family, and equipment.

Safety, peace of mind, is always paramount . . .

Teken . . .

 

[Threadkiller]

1. First thing is remove the device from the wall and ensure all connections are firmly tighten down. If the previous owner used the back stab method, use the side terminals instead. The only time you should use a back stab is if the design of the GFCI / Outlet allows you to tighten the back stab with a screw. This type of back stab is safe, and reliable.

2. Once the GFCI has been checked to be properly grounded and line / neutral is confirmed wired right. Use the test switch on the outlet and reset it 8-10 times with a load attached.

If it kills the power each time, and also resets the switch fine move on.

3. Purchase a plug in GFCI tester. These devices are a life saver and every home owner should have one. Again, plug something in the outlet and than trip the device with the tester. It should instantly trip and kill the power if it does than you're good to go. You will do this 8-10 times to ensure its not *one time lucky*

The benefit of the tester is that it will confirm several states. Bad ground, reversed wiring, power / no power, etc.

Based on your initial feed back it could very well be that the switch was just over loaded or the welder had enough leakage to cause a nuisance trip.

If so, worry not and move on . . .

If in doubt just spend the $20.** for a quality Leviton, Hubble, Cooper unit and know you're using the best and latest tech to protect you, family, and equipment.

Safety, peace of mind, is always paramount . . .

Teken . . .

Wow, thank you Teken. I appreciate you taking the time to explain all this to a complete electrical newbie.

 

[justsam]

3. GFCI detect the imbalance of current flowing to ground. Make sure the immediate area is free of water and hazards.

Teken . . .

We may be saying the same thing here, but GFCI actually looks for equal current on the "hot" and "neutral". The "ground" prong is really not in the picture.

 

[RPH]

Correct, current between hot and neutral. It's assumed any imbalance indicates its going where it shouldn't ie you. Most will trip in less than 1/40 th of a second. Less time than you can feel the shock.