CL Purchase - 1973 Saylor-Beall - Some Questions

[Cinnabar325is]

I've been searching for a large, quality compressor for quite some time on a somewhat small budget. So, Craigslist was my weapon and there was a definite lack of good units for sale... a lot of Husky and Campbell Hausfields. Or a few nice big IR's that were beyond my budget (i.e.- $1500).

I learned of Saylor-Beall because the machine shop where I work has a screw type Saylor-Beall that's probably 30 years old. It's been great and so I dove into researching Saylor-Beall and I've read pretty much every thread that ever dealt with them in the history of Garage Journal.

I knew I wanted an 80 gallon vertical unit and 5hp, no matter which brand. Hoping for two stage.

I couldn't believe my luck when a Saylor-Beall unit popped up on Craigslist two weeks ago. It was about 3 hours from home, but I was willing to drive for a good compressor and the price was good, IMO: $500.

However, there was only a small picture in the ad and not a lot of detail. Plus, it was coming from a salvage company that had pulled it out of a building they were demolishing, so they didn't know much about it but they claimed it worked fine. Of course, some lines were cut when it was removed and they had no way of powering it up for me to make sure everything is working correctly. So $500 may sound good at first, but I took a gamble buying it without knowing for certain that it's any good.

So now on to the unit itself. It's an original SB 80 gallon tank, that is stamped with a build date of 1973. It has a brand new Leeson 5hp, 1740 RPM, single phase motor. It also has brand new belts and the oil looks pretty fresh and clean.

Here's the downside: the SB pump is long gone, replaced by a unit that has very little in the way of markings (basically it just has "WCP" inside an oval cast in a few places). This replacement pump is a two cylinder, two stage unit. It has no oil sight. Other issues: the copper line from the second stage into the tank was severed and the wiring to the pressure switch is also missing. And it has no auto tank drain.

So first things first...

1) Can anyone provide me with info about this replacement pump? What brand? Is it Chinese junk? Any way that I can find out what kind of CFM it puts out without disassembling it?

2) What's the best way to go about replacing the cut copper tank line?

Thanks!

 

[930dreamer]

The pump looks like an Ingersoll Rand but it might be a copy. Is it in working condition yet?

 

[Cinnabar325is]

The pump looks like an Ingersoll Rand but it might be a copy. Is it in working condition yet?

Great catch, it sure looks a whole lot like this: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_42538_42538

The only real difference I can see is that is doesn't have the line coming out of the front of crankcase and going up to the second stage like mine does. Speaking of which, what is the purpose of that line/pipe?

I'm still suspecting my pump is a copy of an IR, not the real deal.

Not working yet, there's a lot I have to do before that. The more I dig into it, the more I find it's a mess. I'll probably pull the motor and pump off and clean everything up nicely.

EDIT: Nevermind, found this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ingersoll-R...293?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cfead555

It has the same casting numbers in the cylinders and everything else looks exactly the same as mine except that line I asked about above. Looks like it might not be a copy after all. Plus I found another one painted the same strange blue.

 

[Cinnabar325is]

Anyone else chime in on what the pipe is leading from the crankcase to the second cylinder?

 

[930dreamer]

Anyone else chime in on what the pipe is leading from the crankcase to the second cylinder?

I think that would go from the cylinder(large line) into the tank! Small line might be part of the head unloader?

 

[bran1har]

I'd say it goes right into the pump. Power it up and see if air comes out? Only way to know. Then get the same diameter copper tubing, have the ends flared and put it back on.

 

[Cinnabar325is]

I think that would go from the cylinder(large line) into the tank!

Correct, that I know about.

Small line might be part of the head unloader?

This is what I was getting at... I'm not sure of the purpose of that small line, it seems to feed right in to where the crankshaft bearing would be.

What is the "head unloader"?

 

[bsaint]

Pretty sure thats a IR or IR clone pump.

 

[930dreamer]

Correct, that I know about.




This is what I was getting at... I'm not sure of the purpose of that small line, it seems to feed right in to where the crankshaft bearing would be.

What is the "head unloader"?

The unloader vents the head/valves so the pump isn't under pressure when it's trying to start. Isn't there a similar tube on the other side as well?

 

[theoldwizard1]

The unloader vents the head/valves so the pump isn't under pressure when it's trying to start.

It might use oil pressure from the sump to unload the pressure.

 

[Cinnabar325is]

The unloader vents the head/valves so the pump isn't under pressure when it's trying to start. Isn't there a similar tube on the other side as well?

Yes there is one on the other side. It's just that most two stage units seem to only have one on the first cylinder and not the second. Interesting though, thanks for explaining that.

 

[kenfain]

I understand saylor-beal has excellent, and knowledgeable, helpful tech support. Why not go straight to the source. Before I bought a used Curtis, I E-mailed s-b about info. They got right back to me with all the info I asked for very quickly. By the way, congratulations. Nice find, good price too. Your gonna love it. Ask s-b to send all the owners manual, service manual info they have. Probly do it for free. Good luck
ken

 

[All]

I understand saylor-beal has excellent, and knowledgeable, helpful tech support. Why not go straight to the source. Your gonna love it. Ask s-b to send all the owners manual, service manual info they have.

It is doubtful that any info from Saylor Beal will be of much help to the OP in reviving his Frankenstein compressor, because he doesn't have a Saylor Beal compressor. He has an Ingersoll Rand compressor, a Leeson single phase motor, and a tank made by Wood Industrial Products Company (still in business, now known as John Wood Company) with a Saylor Beal sticker on it. Maybe S-B will send him a new sticker? Not sure if the tank is worth it, given that it is 40 years old, and has rust bubbling bubbling up the paint just below the National Board name plate. The tank will need inspection.

But back to that compressor. The pump looks very much like an older iteration of the IR 2545 pump, which is the bigger brother to the more commonly found IR 2475 and 2340 pumps... all of which are Type 30 V cylinder two stage pumps.

The 2545 is generally fitted with 10 HP to 15 HP electric motors, so it's use here with a single phase 5 HP motor is also a bit Frankensteined. Usually, a 2475 pump would be fitted with 5 HP to 7.5 HP electric or 12 to 14 HP gasoline motors. The 2340 is fitted with 3 HP to 5 HP electric motors.

The 2545 is a larger pump. I know of only one instance when IR coupled the 2545 with a 7.5 HP motor. That was for a special edition unit they made for one year where they re-sheaved* the pump to run slower (*changed pulley sizes).

Even though it is larger, it is still splash lubricated, with paddles on the crankshaft. Therefore I doubt that the mystery tube from the air chamber in the high pressure cylinder head has anything to do with pressure lubrication on a pump that isn't supposed to be pressure lubricated.

Ingersoll Rand does indeed install a little tube on the high pressure head of the 2545, but doesn't do so on the more commonly seen 2475, which is why it might look unusual to anyone used to seeing the 2475. On the current 2545, this little tube is for the pilot valve, which appears to be missing entirely from the front cover of the pump in the picture above.

However, here is picture I found online (will likely disappear soon, as it is from a CL ad) that shows the same tube from the second stage outlet to the crankcase cover without a visible pilot valve. So there seems to be some commonality to this design with older style 2545 pumps.

As you can see, the 2545 pumps that have the pilot valve tube on the high pressure head still also have another small tube on the low pressure side head, that IR calls the FEC CHECK VALVE TUBE on the 2545.

The intercooler tubes on the flywheel side of the pump are consistent with the triple tube configuration of today's 2545, but are different in that the tubes in the pumps above do not make a 360 degree loop like the current 2545's do, but appear to only dip down, route under the crank, and then go directly into the second stage without making a complete circle that would expose the intercooler to more moving air from the flywheel. Here is another similar generation 2545 pump with the U shaped triple tube intercooler:

Here is a current Ingersoll Rand manual that covers all the small reciprocating pumps, including the 2545:

http://www.irtechpubs.com/ir_pdfs/Compressed%20Air/Air%20Compressors/Reciprocating%20Compressor/22607402.PDF


Here is a parts breakdown for the 2545 pump:

http://www.flamingoshopserv.com/portals/2/news/partsbreakdown/ingersoll%20rand%20t30%20model%202545.pdf


Rebuild kits are available for that pump. Be prepared, the parts are pricey!

 

[Cinnabar325is]

Since this thread, I'd made two others asking more specific questions about parts of this compressor.

But I think I should provide some of the info I've learned here to spread the knowledge.

Here's what I've found:

It is an original SB compressor tank. Wood Industrial Products was just one of the many tank builders that SB used throughout the years.

The pump is an IR T30 Model 242 which is designed for a 5 hp motor. It isn't original to the SB tank, but it is a good quality pump that outputs more air than the either the original SB 703/705 pump.

I was able to purchase a full rebuild kit online for the 242 for a very reasonable $200 and it includes U.S.A SKF main bearings, OEM IR connecting rods, graphoil gaskets, OEM piston rings, new finger valves, all seals/o-rings.... etc.

The pump is fully apart and being prepped for a rebuild and paint.

The tank will be cleaned and checked as best I can and also sanded down and repainted.

I obtained a genuine SB color swatch and had the color matched at a local Benjamin Moore distributor using their direct to metal oil-based paint.

I have a new, genuine SB tank decal in the works.

I hope that this beast will prove to be very useful when all is said and done.

 

[Grounded Ken]

You are correct it is a I/R 242. As far as it putting out more cfm than a S/B 705, I doubt it. You only get so much air per Hp. on these industrial machines. The S/B 703 is a 3 Hp. machine, not the same size. The mystery tube from the Hp head is how the centrifugal unloader unloads the head when the compressor comes to a stop. When you put the machine together you have to adjust the valve on the crankcase so the unloader work correctly. If not it will blow air constantly or not unload the air when it stops. Also make sure you put in a in-tank check valve when you pipe the discharge line. If not you'll wonder why the centrifugal unloader can't be adjusted.

 

[Cinnabar325is]

You are correct it is a I/R 242. As far as it putting out more cfm than a S/B 705, I doubt it. You only get so much air per Hp. on these industrial machines. The S/B 703 is a 3 Hp. machine, not the same size. The mystery tube from the Hp head is how the centrifugal unloader unloads the head when the compressor comes to a stop. When you put the machine together you have to adjust the valve on the crankcase so the unloader work correctly. If not it will blow air constantly or not unload the air when it stops. Also make sure you put in a in-tank check valve when you pipe the discharge line. If not you'll wonder why the centrifugal unloader can't be adjusted.

Would you explain what you mean about the in-tank check valve?

 

[Grounded Ken]

When you pipe the discharge pipe to the compressor, you want a check valve in the line between the compressor and the tank. This will keep the air in the tank and your compressor won't fight the air coming back from the tank. You have two choices, a swing check or a in-tank check valve. The in-tank are the most common, or it is what I recommend, it would look like a Grainger 6X210, depends on the connection port you have in your tank. As we all know Grainger wants way too much for these.

 

[All]

Thank you for reporting back on the older pump name. (IR 242 instead of IR 2545).

 

[Cinnabar325is]

Thank you for reporting back on the older pump name. (IR 242 instead of IR 2545).

Sure, you were very helpful so thank you!

So I gather the 2545 used to be called the 242?

I know that small tube from the HP head to the crankcase cover is for the centrifugal unloader assembly.

What purpose does a pilot valve serve?

 

[Grounded Ken]

If you are talking about the tube from the crankcase to the Lp. head, this is a crankcase venting. There is a one way valve coming out of the head, to the tube to the crankcase. I use to import these "clones" for Israel in the 80's and 90's. And guess what, they were made from molds that I/R sold to them! I can still get a version of the machine, brand new, but the don't have the centrifugal unloader anymore and they are made in India. Most of the I/R stuff is coming out of China, what isn't is coming out of India.
The 254 was the next bigger size at the time. Then they changed things to the 2475 and the 2545, I lost interest with these machines as they don't quite measure up with the older units.

 

[All]

I bought the last 2475 pump still Made in the USA.

Ok, maybe not the very last specific unit, but one of the last production years before the pumps went offshore.

Last time I visited Tractor Supply, the 2475 pumps were just as Grounded Ken says... "Made in India".