I want a TIG! Syncrowave 250 any good?

[madosta]

Alright, so I just started to TIG a few weeks ago and I love it.

I've been running a MIG for a while now and have an older Millermatic 200.

I was looking at the Diversion 180 and the Econotig - as well as the Hobart versions, but I'm not sure they're what I want. I would prefer to get a water cooled torch eventually and AC/DC is a must. I don't need cleaning, pulsing, etc, but sure it would be neat.

Welding 1/4 aluminum would be about max.

So there's a local Syncrowave 180 SD and a Syncrowave 250 CC (I guess is constant current.) I've done some research and people are saying the 180 is a POWER HOG, but I'm not sure about the 250 - although the 250 can be wired up to a 100amp 240v circuit. I would make out at 50amps dedicated.

I don't really want a red Lincoln box, but there's http://annarbor.craigslist.org/tls/3668012768.html this for sale with a decent setup.

These inverter TIGs are awesome... like the Dynasty 200.

Anyways, back to my question - Can you tell me anything about this from the pics, like year, model, pros, cons:

http://toledo.craigslist.org/tls/3624349789.html

 

[shawnspeed]

I have that exact welder...plus or minus a few years...(Mine is like an early '90's model) it will weld just about anything you want to do in a home shop environment....But , for full output , will require an 80 amp circuit(if it is the power correction model) .I have mine hooked up to a 30 A Circuit right now, and 3/16 alum , is about all it will do before tripping a breaker, 50 might do 1/4....I have had absolutely no complaints with mine and have used it in my part time fab business for the last 18-20 years, welding just about anything that came thru the door...the newer inverter types will operate at lower input amps...but they are quite pricey...especially if you want AC , like in the Dynasty line...but 2000 for that model of Syncro wave is a little steep, in my opinion...I have seen them on CL in the metro Detroit area for 900-1200 bucks...HFdial arcs' and gold stars for 3-750...and they weld as good as a syncro, but are "softer" as they are tube machines..and use a little more juice.... I would keep looking , if you are in no hurry.Shawn

 

[bsaint]

Why not a Syncrowave 200?

 

[Strouty]

My father just bought two 350 synchrowaves about the same vintage (with water coolers) and he paid $1600 for the pair. One worked perfectly, the other needed a pump for the water cooler. He know has about $2200 in the pair. I would keep looking the price seems high, but that may be your area.

 

[affende]

Great machines. I have a sync 200 at the house and 2 sync 250's at the shop.

 

[oilslick]

I have a econotig it is heavy and it uses a lot of juice, I am hoping to sell it on c list for 650 with tank and extras but not holding my breath! It has saved my *** many times but I need the money for a lift!

 

[brianpgriset]

I've got a Syncrowave 200 and I really like it.

 

[madosta]

Yea, the 200 would be fine I'm sure. I don't need anything full blown as I am no rockstar TIGer!

I'm also not in a hurry, so I'll keep my eyes open. I'm guessing the 200 is better than 180 in terms of generation and power ****?

oilslick, sounds like a good price, will you deliver to Detroit?! Haha.

 

[E.rodz]

I have the same welder as well I love it ! I do alot of aluminum welding and if you do not weld any alum. thicker than 3/16 you won't even need a cooler but 1/4 alum. is a different story does it come with the bottle ? I paid the same for mine about 8 years ago. the only thing I don't like about it is the size it takes up alot of space so I built it into my bench.

 

[rsanter]

Those are great tig welders, the newer diversion heats the metal a little faster because it's a inverter machine but if you can get that unit for a good price then do it

Bob

 

[kald]

I have the same welder as well I love it ! I do alot of aluminum welding and if you do not weld any alum. thicker than 3/16 you won't even need a cooler but 1/4 alum. is a different story does it come with the bottle ? I paid the same for mine about 8 years ago. the only thing I don't like about it is the size it takes up alot of space so I built it into my bench.

Nice setup!

 

[madosta]

Awesome.

So I guess, what is a good price point for me to spend? That Lincoln I linked to seems like a good deal with the stuff, but yea it's red...

I wouldn't mind spending up to $1,500 if I can get something local and in decent shape.

 

[sfm1951]

I bought mine for $1,000 with a tig cooler. I bought it from a company that bought all the equipment from a company that had problems with the IRS They are out there just keep looking. In this economy they come up all the time. Steve

 

[zkling]

Awesome.

So I guess, what is a good price point for me to spend? That Lincoln I linked to seems like a good deal with the stuff, but yea it's red...

I wouldn't mind spending up to $1,500 if I can get something local and in decent shape.

I have a mid 90's 250. The 250 is an industrial workhorse. Do not even try to compare it to a Syncro 180, econotig or Diversion; it is a completely different class of machine. It would be extremely hard to outgrow a syncrowave 250.

The lincoln square wave 175 is lincoln's version of the syncrowave 180. Roughly 1/2 the welder that a syncro 250 is.

I run mine on a 50amp breaker and have no issues up to ~250amps. Mine doesn't have the power factor correction caps in it. They are great machines, but I think $2000 for what is included with that one is a bit steep. However he really doesn't list much information in the ad. If it includes the bottle, that could help; IF you can actually use the bottle. A bunch of leads, even better. It does look to be in good condition. Be careful when buying used gas bottles. Some gas suppliers won't refill it for you depending on who actually owns the bottle. Many home welders assume that they own the bottle, when most of the time they are just renting it from the company.

For a bare bones older syncrowave 250 with pedal, air cooled torch, regulator, ground and stick leads. You should be able to find something in the ~$1500 range. Up to $2000 if it has a cooler and water torch. Keep in mind that accessories like consumables can really add up. So if a used machine comes with 10lbs of steel, 10lbs of aluminum and 10lbs of stainless USEABLE filler plus torch consumables like tungsten you are looking at a few hundred dollars right there.

One last thing. Make sure you test the machines out fully before paying for a "working" machine. If the owner can't show you that it works, well to me it is a non working machine that should be priced as a non working machine. I don't really care if he doesn't have the power or what ever excuse he dreams up. The older syncrowaves have a single board in them, that if fails will be very costly to replace.

P.S. I love when people misspell the model of an item and then take a big picture of it in the ad!!! "Synchro wave"

 

[5mall5nail5]

Miller Diversion 180 has yet to fail me

 

[BD1]

I got a 180SD. Basic Machine, turn on gas, turn on machine, push pedal, and weld. The 200 has a few goodies on it put not as much as the 250. My 180 was $800.00 complete setup but no tank. Couldn't pass it up for that money.
It all depends what you are going to use it for. I just use it for thin stainless and fine work. Better than using stick or trying to get a mig gun in there.
You gotta have multiple machines whether you like it or not.

 

[SM Racing]

I have a similar vintage 250. Mine has gauges where that one has black spots. Guess there were some sort of add on or option. I have fed mine with a dedicated 125amp breaker so I have no issues. I bought mine for 1500shipped and added a water cooler and water cooled torch. The accessories are what really add to the price. I have 8 tubes of filler, piles of tungstens, torch parts, purge setup, etc.

The Syncrowave 250 sent us to the moon, so I suspect it will do pretty much everything you need to do.

 

[PAToyota]

I picked up a newer 250DX (has the digital volt and amp readouts on the front) with some accessories and a water cooler for just over $2K. I'd say that is a bit overpriced.

 

[madosta]

I picked up a newer 250DX (has the digital volt and amp readouts on the front) with some accessories and a water cooler for just over $2K. I'd say that is a bit overpriced.

That's what I want! Can I have yours?!

 

[CarterKraft]

I have and love my Syncrowave 250DX but I would seriously look at a Inverter machine for a hobby home shop.
I bought my Syncro for a aluminum trailer repair job and found very quickly on thicker sections you will use the entire capacity of the machine and wish you had more. I was amazed at how fast the aluminum structure turns into a giant heat sink and I would hate to have tried that repair with a "hobby" 180 amp machine.

Pros. are pretty obvious for a industrial machine in the hands of a hobbyist but there are some cons.
1. Huge, this class of transformer machine takes up some serious real estate. I have a 30 x 40 shop and it is frequently in the way.
2. Portability= none, this thing ways a bazillion pounds and since it takes a minimum 50 amp circuit to perform at capacity it limits taking it to a buddies house or out in the yard to weld up a gate.
3. Amperage use, this is a 2 prong issue. First like was said above with out PF correction the machine calls for 98 amps I think at full boogie, that is a ton of power that you have to provide and pay for. Many garage hobbyist don't have "real" 50 amp circuits in there garage, many are just sized circuits running off a overloaded load center in the home.
4. Did I say it's freaking huge.

Like I said, I love mine and don't plan on getting rid of it, but If I run across a comparable inverter machine, Dynasty or something similar for the right price I might try and move it.

 

[zkling]

The Syncrowave 250 sent us to the moon, so I suspect it will do pretty much everything you need to do.

Very true quote. Don't forget the aerowave's as well. Big time aerospace machines.

I have and love my Syncrowave 250DX but I would seriously look at a Inverter machine for a hobby home shop.
I bought my Syncro for a aluminum trailer repair job and found very quickly on thicker sections you will use the entire capacity of the machine and wish you had more. I was amazed at how fast the aluminum structure turns into a giant heat sink and I would hate to have tried that repair with a "hobby" 180 amp machine.

Like I said, I love mine and don't plan on getting rid of it, but If I run across a comparable inverter machine, Dynasty or something similar for the right price I might try and move it.

You needed more than 310Amps to tig weld aluminum WOW were you running AC or DC polarity? Maybe you should look at one of those Dynasty 700's

I picked up a newer 250DX (has the digital volt and amp readouts on the front) with some accessories and a water cooler for just over $2K. I'd say that is a bit overpriced.

You got a great deal, if not STEAL on that machine. Was it in a dark alley, late at night?

That's what I want! Can I have yours?!

The digital volt and amp readouts crack me up, even the analog ones are funny. Just another way for companies to add "features" you don't need to jack the price up. When was the last time you looked at your running volts while welding?

 

[madosta]

There's one of these HTP tigs listed locally as well, but I'm not familiar with the brand and the price seems steep!

http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tls/3674484164.html

 

[zkling]

There's one of these HTP tigs listed locally as well, but I'm not familiar with the brand and the price seems steep!

http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tls/3674484164.html

They are cheaper than that NEW what a goof.

The only brands that I would consider for inverters would be Miller or Thermal arc.

 

[theknurl]

The digital volt and amp readouts crack me up, even the analog ones are funny. Just another way for companies to add "features" you don't need to jack the price up. When was the last time you looked at your running volts while welding?

+10^100

CarterKraft;
you had a 250amp machine all in, welding a trailer?????
my buddy was building an aluminum trailer for his gold mining equipment.....his 175-180 amp toy wouldn't do it even preheating it with a torch

i have an old Lincoln 300/300, on the middle of 5 ranges it maxes at 140 on AC. he brought the trailer over and starts cleaning joints

i stopped him "it's a waste of time"
he didn't see me turn the Argon way down to ~10% and the Helium on

yes, thats the secret, Helium, on heavy stuff or to go fast
i was at ~135amps on mostly Helium, 3/32" 2% tungsten, 1/8 rod and a straight cup

when you use Helium go up a rod size, so you can get close to the puddle

you have to leave a little Argon in there.....it just works better than straight Helium.....i have no idea why

 

[zkling]

+10^100

CarterKraft;
you had a 250amp machine all in, welding a trailer?????

Actually the syncro 250 goes to 310 amps!!! That is why I was also extremely curious as to WTH he was welding.

+10^100

yes, thats the secret, Helium, on heavy stuff or to go fast
i was at ~135amps on mostly Helium, 3/32" 2% tungsten, 1/8 rod and a straight cup

Shhh, don't let the secret out.

When I use to weld up thick aluminum heads with my syncro 250 I would run DC polarity (yes on aluminum) with pure helium sheilding. The true heliarc way. Make sure you have some thick gloves for this though.

 

[brianpgriset]

Yea, the 200 would be fine I'm sure. I don't need anything full blown as I am no rockstar TIGer!

I'm also not in a hurry, so I'll keep my eyes open. I'm guessing the 200 is better than 180 in terms of generation and power ****?

oilslick, sounds like a good price, will you deliver to Detroit?! Haha.

If you are patient and Zoro has the 40% off sale in November again you can get a new Syncrowave tig runner package for a bit over $1700. The other option in that price range is a Thermal Arc 186, which is an inverter so you get all the arc shaping, size, and power saving benefits over the Syncrowave.

 

[theknurl]

When I use to weld up thick aluminum heads with my syncro 250 I would run DC polarity (yes on aluminum) with pure helium shielding. The true heliarc way. Make sure you have some thick gloves for this though.

with a heat barrier too.....
i'm only using a WP-20 torch, good for 250DC/180AC

doing small heads, i never even bothered with the Helium

 

[CarterKraft]

+10^100

CarterKraft;
you had a 250amp machine all in, welding a trailer?????
my buddy was building an aluminum trailer for his gold mining equipment.....his 175-180 amp toy wouldn't do it even preheating it with a torch

i have an old Lincoln 300/300, on the middle of 5 ranges it maxes at 140 on AC. he brought the trailer over and starts cleaning joints

i stopped him "it's a waste of time"
he didn't see me turn the Argon way down to ~10% and the Helium on

yes, thats the secret, Helium, on heavy stuff or to go fast
i was at ~135amps on mostly Helium, 3/32" 2% tungsten, 1/8 rod and a straight cup

when you use Helium go up a rod size, so you can get close to the puddle

you have to leave a little Argon in there.....it just works better than straight Helium.....i have no idea why

Yep experience makes the difference 99% of the time. I was not actually running the machine all out, but with the duty cycle of those hobby machines I am fairly sure you would be taking lots of breaks.

That was my first real Tig job and I didn't know the reverse DC deal, or even the helium heat boost, I had in my mind what a normal heat range would be for these welds (1/4" to 1/4") on the rear door frame of all aluminum sundowner horse trailer, I almost doubled that amperage to achieve the correct penetration needed. I ended up preheating the large sections with propane weed burner just to speed the process. Even a small section of the fender/side step required 120+ amps and it was 1/8"to 3/16" material but it was 12" wide and 6' long, a thin section that big can really dissipate heat, allot faster than I ever thought.

I am not a expert Tigsmen, nor a professional welder, I am what I figure most of the guys that "want" a Syncrowave 250 are, the pro's already have one or something better.

 

[NASTYZEN]

I used a 350 Syncrowave for 4 years and it was the nicest most wonderfull machine I ever used.
I miss it dearly daily
I hear the old Miller aircrafter machines are over the top.

 

[theknurl]

Yep experience makes the difference 99% of the time. I was not actually running the machine all out, but with the duty cycle of those hobby machines I am fairly sure you would be taking lots of breaks.

That was my first real Tig job and I didn't know the reverse DC deal, or even the helium heat boost, I had in my mind what a normal heat range would be for these welds (1/4" to 1/4") on the rear door frame of all aluminum sundowner horse trailer, I almost doubled that amperage to achieve the correct penetration needed. I ended up preheating the large sections with propane weed burner just to speed the process. Even a small section of the fender/side step required 120+ amps and it was 1/8"to 3/16" material but it was 12" wide and 6' long, a thin section that big can really dissipate heat, allot faster than I ever thought.

I am not a expert Tigsmen, nor a professional welder, I am what I figure most of the guys that "want" a Syncrowave 250 are, the pro's already have one or something better.

CarterKraft;
ask the questions you'll get answers.....

personally i'd stay away from all the disco electronics......
its sort of like computers......they do all sorts of stupid ****...like fail

like why a digital voltage meter?.....can you see it while welding?

Millers are popular.....because the markup is higher, and the LWS can give you a bigger break

NOT because they are better

i don't have a water cooler.....i run on city water and water the garden, hey, i have a water solenoid, am i wasting water?.....i ran for years on a fish pond pump in a 5 gallon bucket.
the last thing in this world i'd want is a stupid Bernard cooler with the noisy POS Oberdorfer pump that needs special lube in the water

i have been using the same Lincoln 300/300 for 38 years, it used 1 O-ring in the water solenoid, its still on its original points....
i did all of FMF's aluminum for over 20 years

i've cut and welded with a Victor J28 with a 550J head since i was 8......my Dad didn't let me use his Purox 00-D for welding

when i was 12 i was given 2 brand new Purox 00-Ds.....my Father gave one to a friend......gee, thanks Dad

i'm still using the other one

it is the best torch ever made......
NO stupid O-rings
interchangeable mixers....so you can use other gases, try that with any other torch

weight, complete with 5 tips......10.8 oz

a #3 tip will weld 1/4" plate to a '60s car chassis, i have a #7 tip 0.073 orifice

and people call it a jeweler's torch

its what built the aircraft industry in the USA

 

[Jersey Tom]

I picked up a Diversion 180 not long ago and have been quite happy with it. While I was in college I had learned to weld on an old Syncro 300, and that thing was a beast. For the stuff I was doing at the time (0.095" wall CrMo tube at the most... 0.035" wall at the smaller end) it was total overkill!

I really like the size / weight / portability of the Div 180, that it runs just fine on 110v is a bonus, and for anything I'm doing at home in the garage 180 amps is more than enough. Air cooled torch rarely if ever gets hot, working in this current range.