MWBC Breakers/Handle Ties

[Spudland_Dave]

Gonna use a 15a MWBC to split up my lighting zones in the shop end of my garage...went to lowes today to grab the breakers & ties, but they didnt have any of the little "Barrel" ties I've seen posted here..kids were acting up so I didnt poke around further...grabbed the 14-3 and the breakers and got outta there..was thinking, should I/could I/should I use a standard 2 pole instead of messing around with the add on ties?
Its a Homeline Panel...only benefit I see to the add on ties is independent trip?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202353317?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=HOM215&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=202353317

vs

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100206681?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=homeline+breaker+tie&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=100206681

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Lowes and Home Depot appear to have quit carrying handle ties for any brand of circuit breaker. There is no good reason for not using the double pole breakers.

Charles

 

[Aceman]

I've always just used 2 and 3 pole breakers for MWBC's.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Do the breaker handles have holes in them? Many times, in a pinch out in the field, I've made handle ties out of 12ga bare copper wire! You just slide it ino the holes in the handles!

 

[pattenp]

Do the breaker handles have holes in them? Many times, in a pinch out in the field, I've made handle ties out of 12ga bare copper wire! You just slide it ino the holes in the handles!

I assume "in a pinch" means that you go back and put in the correct handle tie allowed by NEC.

 

[walrus]

Just put in a 2 pole breaker. I've never used a handle tie on MWBC. Its easier just to go with a multi-pole breaker and be done with it

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I assume "in a pinch" means that you go back and put in the correct handle tie allowed by NEC.

Yes!

Just put in a 2 pole breaker. I've never used a handle tie on MWBC. Its easier just to go with a multi-pole breaker and be done with it

A MWBC should have a handle tie because of the shared neutral IF the 2 breaker poles are NOT common trip! This is so that all ungrounded conductors are simultaneously disconnected! Beggining with NEC 2008, all MWBC must be in this manner. If it's an existing MWBC on an older house, the then current code cycle probably didn't require it.

 

[pattenp]

To clarify further and hopefully not confuse things... 2 single pole breakers using handle ties on a MWBC does not provide common trip on both circuits if only one circuit has an overload. The purpose of handle ties on 2 single pole breakers is to provide for simultaneous manual disconnection of both ungrounded conductors when servicing. The use of 2 single pole breakers is only allowed if the MWBC is supplying only line-to-neutral loads. If the MWBC is also supplying line-to-line loads then the breaker needs to be a double pole common trip.

 

[Aceman]

To clarify further and hopefully not confuse things... 2 single pole breakers using handle ties on a MWBC does not provide common trip on both circuits if only one circuit has an overload. The purpose of handle ties on 2 single pole breakers is to provide for simultaneous manual disconnection of both ungrounded conductors when servicing. The use of 2 single pole breakers is only allowed if the MWBC is supplying only line-to-neutral loads. If the MWBC is also supplying line-to-line loads then the breaker needs to be a double pole common trip.

Well stated!

If I didn't know better I'd think you were an electrician!

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Threw the 2 single breakers in the truck for return on a 2 pole...so time for my stupid question of the day
Since these circuits will be Line to Neutral loads...if one overloads will it pull the 2nd one back with it? By that I mean is the trip mechanism strong enough to mechanically trip both if only one is overloaded? I'm really not overly worried about it, it will be servicing only some shop lighting on 1/2 my garage. Looking at 4 - 8' T8 fixtures on each circuit.

 

[pattenp]

Spudland_Dave, if you are using a standard 2 pole breaker it should be common trip. So if one circuit is overloaded then the other circuit will also be shut off when the breaker trips.

 

[madosta]

You sure you want your lights all going off at the same time? hehe

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Spudland_Dave, if you are using a standard 2 pole breaker it should be common trip. So if one circuit is overloaded then the other circuit will also be shut off when the breaker trips.

After reading this thread, I think I will be using a std. 2 pole...I've only personally ever seen/used a 2 pole in 240v situations, so naturally a trip would not be an issue as both sides would want to pull off together.

You sure you want your lights all going off at the same time? hehe

Nope...Thats the reason I was leaning towards the barrel ties at first...but then again, with a static "known load" such as lighting I shouldnt have any tripping issues minus an actual device or wiring fault.
Only good thing is there is another circuit for lighting the other half of the shop. I shoudnt be in the complete dark if a trip were to happen.

 

[madosta]

After reading this thread, I think I will be using a std. 2 pole...I've only personally ever seen/used a 2 pole in 240v situations, so naturally a trip would not be an issue as both sides would want to pull off together.



Nope...Thats the reason I was leaning towards the barrel ties at first...but then again, with a static "known load" such as lighting I shouldnt have any tripping issues minus an actual device or wiring fault.
Only good thing is there is another circuit for lighting the other half of the shop. I shoudnt be in the complete dark if a trip were to happen.

YEA RIGHT!!! I want to be there when the lights go out. You probably go runnin' like a little girl!

 

[Spudland_Dave]

YEA RIGHT!!! I want to be there when the lights go out. You probably go runnin' like a little girl!

Dont loose any sleep...Home Depot had the Handle Ties, so I've got independent trip, 2 pole..