How to get torque wrench on this header bolt?

[lilscorpion]

I've got this '74 k20 project I've been working on for some time now. During a drivetrain swap I needed to redo the exhaust...so new headers. My last set had the simple header bolts that, over time, backed themselves out like they do. This time I decided I'd do it right and get some locking ones. I settled on one of the styles and now I'm getting around to the exhaust part of the swap and the header bolts. Got to torquing them and, I could have guessed, three on the passenger side I can't get the socket on.

I have a variety of universal sockets and close, but no luck. I was thinking a 12-point crows foot would work (just have to calculate the torque advantage but that's easy). I need one for a 3/8...know where to find one? Any other ideas? I could cut a 12-point socket down and make a gizmo (like a boxed end crows foot) to do what I need but that seems a waste of a perfectly good socket. Does someone make a boxed end crows foot?

 

[Brad54]

Stage 8 locking fasteners.
You'll never get a torque wrench in there. Grunt it in with an open-end or box-end wrench, then put the locking mechanism on them and you're done. (for the Stage 8s)

-Brad

 

[Bikes&Bowties]

I would just use a wrench. It's not something like engine internals, there's bigger fish to fry than being spot on on header bolts in my opinion.

 

[mech-tech]

Torque what ya can, if ya can...then use a wrench to get the feel of how tight they are and then tighten the rest.

 

[ATC]

Just crank down on it with a wrench and call it good. Once it's locked you'll be fine

 

[CWP1616L]

How much to those header gaskets compress? If they don't compress that much, I'd get me an extra long combo wrench and yank on it.

 

[rsanter]

I like the regular old header bolts, drill a cross hole, tighten the thing and safety wire them. No backing off

Bob

 

[lilscorpion]

Torque what ya can, if ya can...then use a wrench to get the feel of how tight they are and then tighten the rest.

^^ that's plan B I failed to mention.

 

[CWP1616L]

I'm wondering why they made the bolt heads a 3/8'' when they expect you to get 78 ft. lbs. on it.

 

[lilscorpion]

Stage 8 locking fasteners.
You'll never get a torque wrench in there. Grunt it in with an open-end or box-end wrench, then put the locking mechanism on them and you're done. (for the Stage 8s)

-Brad

Probably should have gone the Stage 8 route. I didn't like the idea of all of the extra **** but now it makes total sense...

 

[lilscorpion]

I'm wondering why they made the bolt head a 3/8'' when they expect you to get 78 ft. lbs. on it.

Um...78-inch lbs on the hex...yeah, that's too much for the main 3/8's. maybe it was like 24...my smaller torque wrench is inch-lbs so I've gotta multiply it out and I forget at the moment obviously. Can't be that high though.

 

[CWP1616L]

Um...78-inch lbs on the hex...yeah, that's too much for the main 3/8's. maybe it was like 24...my smaller torque wrench is inch-lbs so I've gotta multiply it out and I forget at the moment obviously. Can't be that high though.

I'm reading 78-foot lbs. in your first post.

 

[Shootingblanks]

When I installed JBA shorty headers on my 06 Dodge Charger I used a socket cap for a few tight spots. I didn't go with Stage 8 but used Nordlock instead. The job was a lot easier the second time around when I installed heads, cam and Mopar longtube headers.

 

[lilscorpion]

I'm reading 78-foot lbs. in your first post.

I know, I'm agreeing with you...shoulda edited.

 

[lilscorpion]

VIM Tools sells this set of boxed end universals.

I'll give them a try. If they don't work, I'll just buy a set of the 8's and be done with it. thanks.

 

[rslaback]

I'd go with something like this.

Use the rail they are mounted on and one of the smaller wrenches to fit the torque wrench drive. If you use the two adapters so that they maintain the same center line you won't even need to do any math. Essentially you are just using a long C shaped socket.

 

[TwoInch]

or just put it at 90* from the torque wrench handle.

 

[dede2897234]

Motion Pro sells a torque wrench adapter that adjusts to the beam width of a combination wrench. The wrench can be positioned parallel or perpendicular to a 3/8" drive torque wrench. You can purchase the adapter on Motion Pro's website or have your local Motion Pro dealer order it for you. Here is the link to the tool: Motion Pro.


Dave

 

[u118224]

Motion Pro sells a torque wrench adapter that adjusts to the beam width of a combination wrench. The wrench can be positioned parallel or perpendicular to a 3/8" drive torque wrench. You can purchase the adapter on Motion Pro's website or have your local Motion Pro dealer order it for you. Here is the link to the tool: Motion Pro.


Dave

To me, this makes more sense than buying a torque adapter set. Thanks for the post.

 

[sberry]

Just wrench it on.

 

[asemastertech]

get a torque wrench adapter, its like a short box end wrench with a square drive on the other end.

 

[lilscorpion]

I'd go with something like this.

Use the rail they are mounted on and one of the smaller wrenches to fit the torque wrench drive. If you use the two adapters so that they maintain the same center line you won't even need to do any math. Essentially you are just using a long C shaped socket.

A freakin' torque wrench adapter! This is what I was planning on making if nothing existed. Exactly what I was looking for. Great idea on doubling the adapters into the C. How the hell did you cone up with that?! You musta had your coffee already...took me a second to get it but freakin' brilliant!

 

[NHBandit]

Holy ****, next guys will be wanting to know what the proper torque is for the wingnut on the air cleaner... It ain't brain surgery guys. If you can't tell when a bolt is tight enough by "feel" you should be sending your projects out..

 

[rslaback]

A freakin' torque wrench adapter! This is what I was planning on making if nothing existed. Exactly what I was looking for. Great idea on doubling the adapters into the C. How the hell did you cone up with that?! You musta had your coffee already...took me a second to get it but freakin' brilliant!

It is a trick I learned on ytmag.com and it comes in handy for torquing down headbolts on old tractor engines. A lot of the heads the bolts are tucked back inside under the valvetrain.

Holy ****, next guys will be wanting to know what the proper torque is for the wingnut on the air cleaner... It ain't brain surgery guys. If you can't tell when a bolt is tight enough by "feel" you should be sending your projects out..

Somebody piss in your Cheerios again this morning?

 

[unslow1]

I've done several hundred header bolts on dozens of engines. Never torqued one yet.

 

[cryan]

I would just use a spanner(wrench) but if torque's important then get yourself a spigot end torque wrench and use an open end wrench bit.

 

[NHBandit]

It is a trick I learned on ytmag.com and it comes in handy for torquing down headbolts on old tractor engines. A lot of the heads the bolts are tucked back inside under the valvetrain.



Somebody piss in your Cheerios again this morning?

Not at all. It's just that sometimes people tend to overdo things. I'm simply giving my opinion based on 40 years of turning wrenches professionally. I do understand that some guys are perfectionists and want every little thing to be exact down to the closest inch pound but this is not a critical internal engine part that requires exact torque. I'm also not the only one who seems to feel this way so why the personal attack ? Maybe you should send me a PM and tell me what the problem is ? It's my opinion that the OP "should" be able to tell from the bolts he can get on with a torque wrench what "tight" feels like on these bolts and that spending money on tools he may never use again isn't called for in this case. I've built hundreds of engines, several racecars, hotrods & muscle cars and it's my opinion that good quality gaskets, flanges that are perfectly flat, and some sort of way to prevent the bolts from backing out is all that's required as long as the bolts are tight. When someone posts on a public forum I tend to think that makes it ok for other members to respond with their opinon whether YOU like what they have to say or not.

 

[shockwave]

I would go with a flare nut crows foot and bump up the torque a couple of pounds to compensate for the crows foot and even more if you use an extension

 

[IndyGarage]

I wouldn't bother torquing a header bolt like that, but for bolts that need a torque wrench and you can't get tot he bolt - something like those extensions or a crow's foot will work.

Just remember that torque is a factor of the force times the distance from the application of torque to the center of the bolt - so if you extend the distance, you need to reduce the torque as a percentage.

For example: if you have a 16 inch torque wrench and you add a 2 inch extender to it, you reduce the torque by 1/8 or 12.5%.

 

[lilscorpion]

Not at all. It's just that sometimes people tend to overdo things. I'm simply giving my opinion based on 40 years of turning wrenched professionally. I do understand that some guys are perfectionists and want every little thing to be exact down to the closest inch pound but this is not a critical internal engine part that requires exact torque. I'm also not the only one who seems to feel this way so why the personal attack ? Maybe you should send me a PM and tell me what the problem is ? It's my opinion that the OP "should" be able to tell from the bolts he can get on with a torque wrench what "tight" feels like on these bolts and that spending money on tools he may never use again isn't called for in this case. I've built hundreds of engines, several racecars, hotrods & muscle cars and it's my opinion that good quality gaskets, flanges that are perfectly flat, and some sort of way to prevent the bolts from backing out is all that's required as long as the bolts are tight. When someone posts on a public forum I tend to think that makes it ok for other members to respond with their opinon whether YOU like what they have to say or not.

I get what you're saying, I do. Here's my problem - ****** valve covers, cheap gaskets, in expensive headers with thin flanges...I've had them all. I've done the $hit the way you're saying "by feel" and one out of ten times "$hit happens". Im the guy that broke the bolts loose when my friends didn't have the sack. Turns out that's sort of a curse when you're tightening bolts. Broken bolt, stripped threads, or over crushed gasket...so many ways to find a spots under the vehicle after "maybe just an 1/8th more turn". Damn easy to make that mistake if you ask me. Maybe you've got the deft touch. If so, props. The only way my stuff don't leak is to do it the right way, the recommended way - to spec. No guessing, no thinking, buy the good gaskets, quality parts, set the damn torque wrench and done. It's for me so I don't care how long it takes, I just want it right with as little rework necessary as possible.

I'm sure many have have similar thoughts - why doesn't everyone know how to weld, program a CNC in g-code, do their own plumbing, irrigation work, framing, drywall, painting, figure out why their computer doesn't work and then fix it, stop to help people who need it, vote for the right guy/gal, make better decisions in life, avoid financial pitfalls, save for retirement, see a lay-off coming, make a better effort on relationships with close ones, not rip off those who are basically asking for it, etc.

Sometimes we need help. I need a torque wrench to tighten bolts.

 

[NHBandit]

I hear ya man and it's cool that you want it to be perfect. I was just responding to the guy who was ******* my leg because he didn't like my opinion. With a forum as large as this one not everyone is going to agree all the time but that dosn't make it ok to post personal attacks. With old style SB Chevys when installing headers I've found over the years that more often than not the best gaskets to use are the stock style asbestos between 2 layers of metal sandwich type like what comes with most overhaul gasket sets. The kind where you use 3 individual gaskets on each side rather than "header" gaskets. I swore by them even on my racecars. Anyone else have these same resuts ?

 

[lilscorpion]

I hear ya man and it's cool that you want it to be perfect. I was just responding to the guy who was ******* my leg because he didn't like my opinion. With a forum as large as this one not everyone is going to agree all the time but that dosn't make it ok to post personal attacks. With old style SB Chevys when installing headers I've found over the years that more often than not the best gaskets to use are the stock style asbestos between 2 layers of metal sandwich type like what comes with most overhaul gasket sets. The kind where you use 3 individual gaskets on each side rather than "header" gaskets. I swore by them even on my racecars. Anyone else have these same resuts ?

Some people can't handle social media. I'd bet 90% of all arguments that start on a BB wouldn't happen if we were all bench racing in a garage. Hell, someone probably could have solved it with the tools I already have.

I'm just tired of my stuff leaking. I look under some guys hood and his headers and valve covers look like you could eat off of them. Open up my hood and it looks like someone took a **** and missed. I decided that this time I was gonna figure it out and solve the issues. To your point though, I am over-thinking it. Header bolts don't need to specifically be to spec because until this moment in time, I've never ever torqued my headers bolts. One of my character flaws is that when I decide to do something I almost can't function until I finish - maybe hyper-OCD or something. I had to torque the set screws so, with torque wrench already in hand, I decided to torque the primary fasteners as well. Why not right? Got the drivers side all done in less than a minute and couldn't get three on the passenger's side...haven't slept since (only partially kidding).

The gaskets I've learned to use (for headers) is the metal ones that have a thin layer of silver something on them. They almost never leak unlike the paper **** ones that always seem to be included with headers. For valve cover gaskets I use the OEM rubber ones with the metal layer between them and the metal "anti-crush" eyes at the bolt locations. The seem to last better than anything else as long as I have the PCV system is breathing right (BBC at 3k spits like mad hell out of the dipstick and then out of every seal). I'm always open to input because I know I'm no expert. It's always appreciated.

 

[rslaback]

It ain't brain surgery guys. If you can't tell when bolt is tight enough by "feel" you should be sending your projects out..

With a forum as large as this one not everyone is going to agree all the time but that dosn't make it ok to post personal attacks.

How ironic.

 

[devilsnight]

I get the feeling around here that you just need to say right away "This is how i'm gonna do it, what tool do i need" Rather than answers otherwise you just get opinions. Personally I'd tighten em with a wrench and be done but, If one cylinder blows out you'll have to take the whole dang thing back apart. I understand. Torque Adapter is definately your answer.

 

[mebuildit]

What ever way you choose always recheck them after a few heat cycles. They will loosen up some. Also, make sure that you use some type of high temp thread lube on them so you will be able to remove them later on. I like to use the copper C5A thread lube.

 

[NHBandit]

How ironic.

Dude my apologies if my blunt & to the point way of expressing myself isn't as "touchy feely" as you might like. I've been working in shops, salvage yards, & around racecars all my life with MEN who don't feel the need to sugar coat our opinions for those of you who are too sensitive to have things stated clearly and without all the PC **** some of you insist on these days. If my honest and straightforward style offends your delicate side please feel free to make use of the "ignore" feature. Suggesting to someone that they may be in over their heads on a particular project is in no way a "personal attack". Clearly the OP didn't take offense so why is it even any of your business ? As it turns out he has done plenty of ths stuff in the past and was simply trying to eliminate any possibility of a leak. Nothing wrong with that as I have already said. Are you the politeness police ? What you have done here twice now most certainly is personal though. It's like some little kid hiding behind a tree and popping out now & then & throwing rocks. (yes I am being personal now. I've had enough of your ****).. I'm still waiting for you to send me a PM and explain why you're singling me out or are you going to just continue throwing sucker punches and ******* my leg without telling me why ? Better yet in my long held tradidtion of NOT pussyfooting around an issue I will just ask... WTF is your problem ? PS... Don't get the guys thread locked with your ****. Take it to PC or put me on ignore