Makita or Fein Grinder?

[rlitman]

Monte, GREAT comparison!

Is that a quick release on your top switch grinder (the leftmost tool)? Looks like an an anti-vibe handle too. Fein really does make some very nice stuff.

I was not familiar with Fein's electronic brake system. The Metabo clutch will indeed allow the wheel to spin again once it is freed up. Fein's electronic system sounds superior.
My Milwaukee Fuel drill has a similar electronic overload protection system that shuts the tool down if the rotor is locked, and I have found it to be a VERY nice feature. It can still hurt your wrists a little, but in these instances, the stuck part acts as a brake, and the tool stops very rapidly. It definitely won't spin around and around.
I see that Fein also offers a feature that prevents the tool from starting if the switch is left on when it is plugged in (not for tip-start, of course). That would be the best of all worlds for me. You're giving me grinder envy, and I always thought I was happy with my Metabo.

 

[Southern]

If you're going with a normal big-box store brand, get the 4.5'' Makita. Everyone I know thinks of it as the standard.

Going above the shelf brands, you could literally flip a coin bewteen the Fein and the Metabo and be doing okay. A metabo can be had for about half of what the fein goes for and is every bit as quality of a tool.

 

[sberry]

I have used a lot of grinders. If super heavy was a concern it would be a tool with larger wheel than a 4 1/2, a boilermaker building a tank farm etc but I tried most everything, my favorite is the cheap black and decker 7750 from walmart. Especially as much as a guy with surgeon as day job is going, can use one, couldnt wear it out in his lifetime.

The power is right on this tool, suffcient to work nipped off the top a pinch to keep from being able to overheat it, after about 20 seconds even a journeyman forgets it doesnt have some insane amp rating to rip an arm off.

 

[sberry]

Never had a problem with a Makita tool either, maybe cept some little switch on an early bat drill and a cord or 2 like anything rubber,,, which BTW I like cheap vinal better.

The first bat drill I had was a 9.6, really good tool in its day, only reason I bought blue was had used one.

 

[Monte]

@rlitman:

yes it´s an anti-vib handle which comes as a standard with the newer grinders



details of the toolless/quick release system:



gears are blocked now and spindle can be removed:





here´s a larger pic of one of the TipStart switches, the grey is rubber

I was not familiar with Fein's electronic brake system. The Metabo clutch will indeed allow the wheel to spin again once it is freed up. Fein's electronic system sounds superior.
My Milwaukee Fuel drill has a similar electronic overload protection system that shuts the tool down if the rotor is locked, and I have found it to be a VERY nice feature. It can still hurt your wrists a little, but in these instances, the stuck part acts as a brake, and the tool stops very rapidly. It definitely won't spin around and around.

yeah some corded and cordless drills have clutches or electronic protection (mostly brushless tools it seems, also to protect draining of the batteries) which is quite helpful, rotary hammers often have clutches too in case the drill bit hits steel rebar and gets stuck etc.

I see that Fein also offers a feature that prevents the tool from starting if the switch is left on when it is plugged in (not for tip-start, of course). That would be the best of all worlds for me. You're giving me grinder envy, and I always thought I was happy with my Metabo.

The Metabos (and Bosch...) with electronics have that feature too.

 

[rlitman]

details of the toolless/quick release system:

WOW, that is truly awesome. I've never seen that on an angle grinder before.
Unfortunately I use a lot of brushes that screw onto the spindle, so that wouldn't work for me, but I can see how it would be great when switching between flap discs and cutoff wheels, etc. Still, I know I could find a place for that in my toolbox.
The "quick" release on my Metabo was the only type of toolless angle grinder I've seen before. You have all the cool tools! I hate to admit this, but I'm not worthy.

Yes, brushless tools have the overload auto-stop. Probably because they need to protect the batteries, as you said, but with the computer control of the motor, it doesn't require anything additional to add the feature. Same thing goes for an electronically controlled corded motor (such as one with variable speed, or even slow-start). The necessary parts are already there. Whether the manufacturer chooses to include the feature is another story, but Fein isn't known to skimp on anything.

A clutch in a rotary hammer is a must have. That's my my SDS is a Bosch, and not a cheap Chinese one. Same thing goes for angle grinders, for similar reasons. One thing to consider is that a mechanical clutch is a wear item. An electronic one is not.

 

[SMLWinds]

Guys-These are really great conversations and I am appreciative of everyone giving their input. Sounds like the pendulum is swinging back towards Fein for me. I really liked the electronic braking system being a little faster on the Metabo but sounds like the Fein makes up for that in other ways. In the end, as I've said before, I think we are at the point of splitting hairs between the two--both are obviously great tools and top of the line in most every way.

Someone mentioned price and said the Fein is more expensive. That isn't true....if you get a 5 inch Fein with tip start vs. the Metabo WITH the mechanical brake you actually save about $50 with the Fein.

Here is the Amazon link to the Fein for $209:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002NU6G9E/?tag=atomicindus08-20

And the Metabo with the auto balance and mechanical brake for $260:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008NS3G48/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I lean Fein at this point, but still haven't placed an order. While I agree that ergonomics need to be tried firsthand, I think the Fein will probably fit my hand better because it is a less meaty grip. I have always liked smaller grips...baseball bats, etc.

I also am glad someone pointed out the Fein now has an antivibration handle. I was really sold on the anti-vib handle from Metabo and had read that was a criticism of Fein's tip start model but seems they have evened the playing field with Metabo on the antivibration topic with the new, improved handle shown in a previous post.

 

[SMLWinds]

Monte-I see that you said that you can't comment on the wheel stopping time since your tipstart doesn't have a brake. However, in your comparison, it seems to indicated that it takes 3 seconds vs. 1-2 seconds for the Metabo.

I think I have been a bit confused about the clutch/brake/stop terminology. There are two things I am wondering about: 1) how quickly the wheel stops spinning if the tool falls out of your hands and 2) what happens if the tool binds up or kicks back.

It sounds like on #2, what happens if you hit something hard and jam the tool that the Metabo has a clutch which disengages and then reengages while the Fein actually shuts the motor down and you have to start it going again, right?

 

[Monte]

WOW, that is truly awesome. I've never seen that on an angle grinder before.
Unfortunately I use a lot of brushes that screw onto the spindle, so that wouldn't work for me, but I can see how it would be great when switching between flap discs and cutoff wheels, etc. Still, I know I could find a place for that in my toolbox.
The "quick" release on my Metabo was the only type of toolless angle grinder I've seen before. You have all the cool tools! I hate to admit this, but I'm not worthy.

That´s right, if you only need one grinder i would choose one with normal spindle so you can use normal wire wheels and also a regular backing pad for fibre discs instead of Feins special version.
here´s a video how the Quick-In system works:

...just like the Multimaster...

there are other toolless quick change systems available:

Guys-These are really great conversations and I am appreciative of everyone giving their input. Sounds like the pendulum is swinging back towards Fein for me. I really liked the electronic braking system being a little faster on the Metabo but sounds like the Fein makes up for that in other ways. In the end, as I've said before, I think we are at the point of splitting hairs between the two--both are obviously great tools and top of the line in most every way.

Someone mentioned price and said the Fein is more expensive. That isn't true....if you get a 5 inch Fein with tip start vs. the Metabo WITH the mechanical brake you actually save about $50 with the Fein.

Here is the Amazon link to the Fein for $209:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002NU6G9E/?tag=atomicindus08-20

And the Metabo with the auto balance and mechanical brake for $260:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008NS3G48/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I lean Fein at this point, but still haven't placed an order. While I agree that ergonomics need to be tried firsthand, I think the Fein will probably fit my hand better because it is a less meaty grip. I have always liked smaller grips...baseball bats, etc.

I also am glad someone pointed out the Fein now has an antivibration handle. I was really sold on the anti-vib handle from Metabo and had read that was a criticism of Fein's tip start model but seems they have evened the playing field with Metabo on the antivibration topic with the new, improved handle shown in a previous post.

hmm that´s a interesting price for the Fein....
in the end you can´t go wrong on either one.....maybe you need 2 grinders ???

Monte-I see that you said that you can't comment on the wheel stopping time since your tipstart doesn't have a brake. However, in your comparison, it seems to indicated that it takes 3 seconds vs. 1-2 seconds for the Metabo.

I think I have been a bit confused about the clutch/brake/stop terminology. There are two things I am wondering about: 1) how quickly the wheel stops spinning if the tool falls out of your hands and 2) what happens if the tool binds up or kicks back.

It sounds like on #2, what happens if you hit something hard and jam the tool that the Metabo has a clutch which disengages and then reengages while the Fein actually shuts the motor down and you have to start it going again, right?

The weight of the abrasive/wire wheel will influence the stopping speed so there is no ultimate answer i think..... but if the disc stops in 2-3 seconds compared to 7 or 8 seconds thats still pretty good.

you are right about #2

 

[SMLWinds]

After much discussion, I finally settled on the Fein 5" tipstart. It just arrived and looks great! Now have to try it out!

One question--does anyone know if you can use a 4.5" blade with it or do you have to use a 5 inch blade? (that my be a stupid question, but I'm a grinder rookie...)

Thanks!

 

[Monte]

nice ! Let us know how you like it ! You can use both discs on your Fein


btw this topic reminds me on what happened today

 

[SMLWinds]

Precisely why I spent the extra money on the tip start! True, it can still hurt you...but trying to find the shut off switch while it is wrapping your shirt up like spaghetti could end even worse!

Thanks for your help!

 

[SMLWinds]

Monte-The grinder they sent me is actually missing parts so I have to return it. I was sent the one without what I believe is called Quick In (the tool-less blade change system). Mine had the lock button and a wrench to change blades.

I am planning to have them send me the one with Quick In when I return it so I can have the tool-less blade change system. Are there any other differences between the two?

Here is the Quick In:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002NU6GAS/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Here is the one they sent me:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NU6G9E/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Aside from the tool-less changing system, are there any differences between the 2? If not, I'm going to have them send the tool-less system one (unless someone tells me the other is better). Thanks!

 

[Monte]

The rest is the same. But you can´t use normal wire wheels (with threaded arbor) with the "Quick-In" system. Other wire wheels with hole might not fit too. Fibre discs require a special backing pad and special arbor too:

So that means like 40 bucks extra....

So i don´t know if i would choose the "Quick-In" feature if that would be my only angle grinder....

 

[neophyte]

The rest is the same. But you can´t use normal wire wheels (with threaded arbor) with the "Quick-In" system. Other wire wheels with hole might not fit too. Fibre discs require a special backing pad and special arbor too:

So that means like 40 bucks extra....

So i don´t know if i would choose the "Quick-In" feature if that would be my only angle grinder....

The special arbor for fibre discs costs more than $40, probably closer to $75, plus the cost of the backing pad. Are the prices lower in that much Germany?

The next question is why Fein doesn't make adapters for threaded wheels?

 

[SMLWinds]

Sounds like I should just make sure I get what I need for the current grinder an not worry about the Quick In. I like that it saves the need for tools and is quick, but you would have to change a lot of blades to make up for the $70 adapter! Plus, if you have to dig through stuff to find the adapter, you might as well dig through and find the wrench to change it.

I have never used a grinder, but I'm assuming that the standard arbor is much more versatile as far as using various attachments? Thanks!

 

[neophyte]

Sounds like I should just make sure I get what I need for the current grinder an not worry about the Quick In. I like that it saves the need for tools and is quick, but you would have to change a lot of blades to make up for the $70 adapter! Plus, if you have to dig through stuff to find the adapter, you might as well dig through and find the wrench to change it.

I have never used a grinder, but I'm assuming that the standard arbor is much more versatile as far as using various attachments? Thanks!

The standard arbor is going to be much more versatile than the Quick-In system.
As far as the Quick-In goes there are some advantages. The Arbor/Nut piece isn't flat like on a regular grinder. The shape is the flange with a bolt attached. The shape means it's less likely to roll off under a cabinet if dropped, and it should be somewhat easier to find. If using regular Fein grinders with fibre discs you still might need a different arbor nut and backing pad, although the cost is about half the Quick-In cost. The grinders with the Quick-In also have a spindle that locks when the lever is flipped forward.

 

[Monte]

The special arbor for fibre discs costs more than $40, probably closer to $75, plus the cost of the backing pad. Are the prices lower in that much Germany?

The next question is why Fein doesn't make adapters for threaded wheels?

€41.- + tax for both in 5", €38.- + tax for the 4,5" combo ....
http://www.fein.de/de_de/schleifen-normalfrequenz/compact-winkelschleifer/wsb-14-125-t-0181076/

i don´t know, maybe they think you should buy the grinder with the M14/5/8" spindle then, or a adaptor would be too expensive/complicated ? dunno...

Sounds like I should just make sure I get what I need for the current grinder an not worry about the Quick In. I like that it saves the need for tools and is quick, but you would have to change a lot of blades to make up for the $70 adapter! Plus, if you have to dig through stuff to find the adapter, you might as well dig through and find the wrench to change it.

I have never used a grinder, but I'm assuming that the standard arbor is much more versatile as far as using various attachments? Thanks!

If i only would want to buy one grinder i would take a regular one with spindle. I own several grinders hence i bought a "Quick-In" grinder to see how it works and to have something different and you also see many pro´s with these grinders so i wanted one too . So i can use a different grinder with a threaded wire wheel for example. But to buy more than one grinder is not reasonable for a DIY user so i would choose one were you can use every accessory which means a grinder with a 5/8" spindle so you can use all kinds of cutting/grinding wheels, diamond discs, cups, flap discs, fibre discs w/ regular backind pad, wood carving tools etc....In case you loose the nut/flange of your regular grinder the replacement is cheap too, in case you loose the "Quick-In" arbor it´s a expensive replacement....the weight of the tool is also slightly lower and there is no "complicated" spindle/mandrel/arbor mechanism.

 

[hemdale]

Such a perfect topic I was looking for !
The GJ is not a forum, it a f*%&ing goldmine !

I'll try to get my hands on both the Fein and the Metabo to see how the handle feels.
Thanks (again) to Monte and his outstanding reviews and input.

 

[Monte]

btw. Makita or Fein Grinder...
my new grinder:

3 generations:

 

[hemdale]

Which model is it, the one you can orientate by 90° ?

 

[Monte]

Which model is it, the one you can orientate by 90° ?

the new ones with the bare aluminium gear case.

 

[hemdale]

Hmm...

Fein WSG 12-125 P: 2,1 kg (without cable)
Metabo WEPBA 14-125 : 2,6 kg (without cable)

 

[Paco Pena]

I have a 5inch Makita I bought back in the early 1980s. Other than replacing the cord its had no issues and lots of use. Always try to leave the guard on if possible and never buy cheap consumables. A disk letting go at 10,000 rpm is not a lot of laughs.

Paco

 

[Monte]

Hmm...

Fein WSG 12-125 P: 2,1 kg (without cable)
Metabo WEPBA 14-125 : 2,6 kg (without cable)

Fein WSG 15-125 would be more comparable: 2.3 kg

The Metabo has a brake which adds weight and a Autobalancer which adds more weight...

1150 Watt Metabo: 1.8 kg (no electronic module, plastic lower gearcase)

 

[DXN1EL]

Is Fein made is Germany still?

I am trying to decide between these
WSG 15-125P
WSG 15-125PS

 

[rlebroke51]

Do not buy Milwaukee grinders. we bought two of them with the thinking that Milwaukee has some of the best power tools out there. they both lasted about two months before they stopped working. don't get me wrong they got used everyday but they should still last longer than that. what I would buy is Makita, we have an ancient one in the shop that still runs like a charm.

 

[K13]

I have had a makita that gets used all the time and it must be 10 years old and never had a problem with it.

 

[805gregg]

Why buy 1 I have 4, cheap Skill 6 amp for sanding, Makita 6.4 amp for heavy sanding, Dewalt 10 amp for cutting and a Milwaukee 11 amp for grinding, no need to change wheels for a different purpose just grab another 4.5"

 

[Askme42]

Metabo its what I see in most shops that use grinders all day every day. It's what I bought. Will never buy anything else.

 

[rlitman]

Do not buy Milwaukee grinders. we bought two of them with the thinking that Milwaukee has some of the best power tools out there. they both lasted about two months before they stopped working. don't get me wrong they got used everyday but they should still last longer than that. what I would buy is Makita, we have an ancient one in the shop that still runs like a charm.

They should last longer than that. The warranty is MUCH longer than that too.

 

[Monte]

Is Fein made is Germany still?

ALL Fein angle grinders are made in Germany

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[kf4zht]

I like bosch grinders, the only makita I had caught on fire after less than 5 minutes of use. When I requested warranty their lawyer was the first to call me. Last makita tool I ever bought.

The metabos I have used were great, that fein looks nice but they are all pricey.

I tend to Norm Abrams with grinders and don't swap disc types, but rather have 3-4 grinders each with a different disc on it. They seem to last longer that way

 

[Ocean]

Hi guys,

lots of good info on this thread! I am a newbie when it comes to grinders, but I can no longer put the purchase of one off...I've just bought an MMA welder, I am screwed!
I can only find makitas near my place, and most stores do not carry the ones with a deadman paddle switch. As a "angle grinder non-expert", the safety intrinsic to such a switch kind of intrigues me- you loose grip, you get something caught in the wheel, all you have to do is let go of the tool to have it start slowing down.
HOWEVER, I can also relate to the grip issue -i.e. not being able to firmly hold the tool because you have to keep the paddle depressed.
If I can't find a paddle switch equipped grinder to try my hands on, should I get one online and get used to it, or is it better to stick with a "normal" model?
Remember, I've never held a grinder in my hands before, just regular corded drills.

Thanks in advance!

Mauro from Italy