Moisture Vapour Emission Rate for Epoxy

[The Bramptonian]

Need your help folks! I know there are a lot of professionals and experts here on this forum who can help.

I am trying to put epoxy on my 400 sq. ft garage floor. Unfortunately, the moisture vapor emission rate has turned out to be 10.17 lbs per 1000 square feet per 24 hours. I do not know how to interpret this. Is this too high moisture vapor emission rate for epoxy? If it is too high, can I perhaps use moisture barrier primer to solve this problem?

I used Vaporgauge calcium chloride moisture test kit with the following readings:
weight gain 6.3 grams over 73 hours (recommended length of time for the test was 72 hours but I missed it by 1 hour).

What do you guys think? Do you think epoxy will tolerate 10.17 lbs of moisture emission? Would moisture barrier primer make much difference?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[The Bramptonian]

Question for professionals:

Do you moisture test prior to installing epoxy? Any experience with moisture barrier epoxy primers to cure moisture problems? Hope you guys can help me out. I have to make a decision soon.

Thank you so much!

 

[Shea]

Wow, that's a high MVT rate. Do you smell moisture in your garage? Is your slab below grade? Do you have efflorescence on the concrete? Did you do the test with just one kit or did you place a second or third down? Are you positive about your weights? I know of more than one person who made a mistake with measuring the weight. If it was only one test and your answer is "no" to the questions above, you may want to reconsider doing another test. And yes, most professionals will do a moisture test first. Here is an article about moisture testing your concrete before epoxy that you might find helpful.

4 lbs is generally the upper limit for epoxy. There are moisture preventative penetrating sealers that can be applied to create a moisture vapor barrier within the concrete and then use a moisture preventative epoxy primer before the base coat.

 

[pauloman]

number has to be below 6. Generally Bio Vee Seal and internal concrete sealer and drop it down 3 points and often allows for a successful coating job. Also, perhaps better for you to use a water based epoxy which will allow for some concrete 'breathing' vs. a solvent free or high solids epoxy.

PM me for any questions

 

[The Bramptonian]

Shea - thank you very much for your reply!
No, I don't smell moisture in the garage. I don't think concrete slab sits below grade. Not so sure about efflorescence on the concrete. How would I find out?

Unfortunately, I used only one kit and placed it in the area where I suspected more moisture so I think the rate I got is on the higher side. That said, I haven't tested any other spots. I have ordered three more kits and plan to perform more tests. It is entirely possible that the test readings were inaccurate or I may have tainted the test (incorrect weight readings, improper handling etc.). I hope the other three tests I am planning would perhaps confirm the state of moisture emission.

The concrete appears very dry and there aren't any apparent moisture signs neither the floor stay damp for prolonged periods. Not sure what caused the high MVT rate.

After I placed the test, it rained for two days unfortunately. Not sure if that had any effect on the readings. Though no water seepage was visible around the test side.

BTW, How effective are these moisture preventative epoxy primers? I researched the EPIC 7392 Epoxy Moisture Shield and the manufacturer claims it can withstand up to 25 lbs of MVT rate if applied at the thickness of 16 mils.

Here is the link for their data sheet.
http://www.epicflooringadhesives.com/FlooringAdhesiveProducts/Epic7392

Any experience using the moisture barrier epoxies? Thx.

Wow, that's a high MVT rate. Do you smell moisture in your garage? Is your slab below grade? Do you have efflorescence on the concrete? Did you do the test with just one kit or did you place a second or third down? Are you positive about your weights? I know of more than one person who made a mistake with measuring the weight. If it was only one test and your answer is "no" to the questions above, you may want to reconsider doing another test. And yes, most professionals will do a moisture test first. Here is an article about moisture testing your concrete before epoxy that you might find helpful.

4 lbs is generally the upper limit for epoxy. There are moisture preventative penetrating sealers that can be applied to create a moisture vapor barrier within the concrete and then use a moisture preventative epoxy primer before the base coat.

 

[The Bramptonian]

Thanks pauloman for your suggestion. I haven't yet decided but my original plan was to use Armorgarage's Armor Ultra 100% solids epoxy. I plan to apply moisture barrier epoxy primer as a first layer, then the epoxy primer, then one or two layers of 100% solids epoxy layer followed by urethane topcoat.

Just wondering if Bio Vee Seal would cause any adhesion issues for epoxy?

thx.

number has to be below 6. Generally Bio Vee Seal and internal concrete sealer and drop it down 3 points and often allows for a successful coating job. Also, perhaps better for you to use a water based epoxy which will allow for some concrete 'breathing' vs. a solvent free or high solids epoxy.

PM me for any questions

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Thanks pauloman for your suggestion. I haven't yet decided but my original plan was to use Armorgarage's Armor Ultra 100% solids epoxy. I plan to apply moisture barrier epoxy primer as a first layer, then the epoxy primer, then one or two layers of 100% solids epoxy layer followed by urethane topcoat.

Just wondering if Bio Vee Seal would cause any adhesion issues for epoxy?

thx.

You are smart to look at moisture membranes with a number that high.
Remember, any material that limits water penetration and transference, like biovseel or other densifier products will certainly limit the coatings ability to penetrate the concrete for a lock.

Aqua-fin has some good products too. Be prepared to spend 100.00 per gal or more for these products .

 

[The Bramptonian]

Thank you very much!!! I am glad I caught your attention!!! I have sent you a pm for your advise.

So are you suggesting moisture barrier epoxies would reduce the adhesion of epoxy to the point of significantly increasing the risk of failure or shortening the life of epoxy coating?

If you were in my place, would you have decided to go ahead with the epoxy? Or would you have considered alternate system like tiles?

Thank you so much in advance!!

You are smart to look at moisture membranes with a number that high.
Remember, any material that limits water penetration and transference, like biovseel or other densifier products will certainly limit the coatings ability to penetrate the concrete for a lock.

Aqua-fin has some good products too. Be prepared to spend 100.00 per gal or more for these products .

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Frankly, i would rather see an oil slick then moisture.
Re-do the test to be sure you have an issue.

We can always apply our tar based epoxy oil stop primer over oil soaked or asphalt surfaces. Moisture is a killer.

 

[CamarosRus]

I used three calcium chloride tests in my 1300 sq ft shop.
I averaged around 8lbs.

I looked into ALL the major brands and they are spendy
and KOSTER wont let non pros do their own.

I wound using two coats of a moisture
barrier epoxy from BDC(BD Classics)
along with their Clear epoxy and Polyurethane.

My first coat was clear and the 2nd coat was gray
into which we broadcast chips to refusal.

Been down 6 months and so far so good

Had concrete shot blasted first

Sea-Tac locals invited to view.

 

[The Bramptonian]

Thanks CamarosRus. Glad to hear from someone in my situation and that it worked out for you. I have been trying to find a good moisture control epoxy primer for sometime. The problem is the manufacturers won't directly sell it to you. Buying from retailers you don't know what you are getting since they sell under their own labels.

Where did you buy BDC(BD Classics) moisture control primer from? How much did you pay for a gallon, if you don't mind me asking? The gentleman from Legacy Industries on this forum suggested AquaFin but I could not find on their website where to buy. They don't sell directly to retail customers.

Thx.

I used three calcium chloride tests in my 1300 sq ft shop.
I averaged around 8lbs.

I looked into ALL the major brands and they are spendy
and KOSTER wont let non pros do their own.

I wound using two coats of a moisture
barrier epoxy from BDC(BD Classics)
along with their Clear epoxy and Polyurethane.

My first coat was clear and the 2nd coat was gray
into which we broadcast chips to refusal.

Been down 6 months and so far so good

Had concrete shot blasted first

Sea-Tac locals invited to view.

 

[Shea]

If you are having a hard time finding the what you want, look at this moisture barrier product http://buyrhino.com/moisture-guard.html and this epoxy primer that is great with moisture http://buyrhino.com/epoxy-200-clear-2a-1b.html. Just contact them by phone or e-mail and they can give you more information. I've had good results with their primer in the past.

 

[The Bramptonian]

Thank you very much again! You have been very helpful. I will check them out.

If you are having a hard time finding the what you want, look at this moisture barrier product http://buyrhino.com/moisture-guard.html and this epoxy primer that is great with moisture http://buyrhino.com/epoxy-200-clear-2a-1b.html. Just contact them by phone or e-mail and they can give you more information. I've had good results with their primer in the past.

 

[The Bramptonian]

Hi Scotty,

Do you know if moisture barrier epoxies are compatible with oil stop epoxies in general?

Since I have localized oil contamination and overall moisture problem, do you think I can first spot prime oil contaminated areas with oil stop primer and than apply moisture barrier epoxy to the entire surface including over oil stop primer?

Could this cause bonding issues between oil stop primer epoxy and moisture barrier epoxy? It is my understanding that epoxies of all kinds generally bond well with each other?

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Frankly, i would rather see an oil slick then moisture.
Re-do the test to be sure you have an issue.

We can always apply our tar based epoxy oil stop primer over oil soaked or asphalt surfaces. Moisture is a killer.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Bramp:
Moisture systems require a major prep-job. Most require an aggressive shot-blasting.
Then the there are a few different coats which also includes broadcasting aggregate.

If it were me, I would ask them to recommend a complete system. Let them know what the issues are.

You can find aqua-fin products at Kenseal.

In regards to the oil, they will likely tell you to grind it out and replace the concrete with an epoxy patch of some sort.

This is not what you want to hear but it's reality.

 

[The Bramptonian]

Hi Scotty,

I totally understand what you are saying. Thank you for taking time to reply!

Here is my action plan:

1) Use diamond grinder or other means to completely grind out the concrete contaminated with oil (reaching at least 0.5 inches deeper than oil contamination).
2) Seal the exposed concrete with oil stop primer and let it dry for 24 hours.
3) Apply second coat of oil stop primer and sprinkle sand or dry cement powder while the oil stop primer is still wet. This is to provide rough surface for patching concrete. Let it dry for 24 hours.
4) Vacuum the excess sand/ cement and slightly scrub the surface to remove loose sand/ cement.
5) Apply concrete bonding adhesive and then patch it with concrete. Wait for the concrete patch to cure.
6) Grind it lightly to level the surface.
7) Then apply moisture barrier primer followed by the epoxy and top coat.

The objective is to completely remove oil contaminated concrete and apply oil stop primer to completely seal it. Applying second coat of the oil stop primer immediately followed by the sand or dry cement is to allow sand/ cement to create a rough surface where concrete patch can be applied. Applying a layer of concrete adhesive will ensure that the concrete patch will firmly adhere to the oil contaminated surface primed with oil stop primer and sand/ cement.

At this point this is all theoretical, and I am not sure how well this will work practically. I will find out in next few week and will post pictures of my adventures.

Thanks again!

Bramp:
Moisture systems require a major prep-job. Most require an aggressive shot-blasting.
Then the there are a few different coats which also includes broadcasting aggregate.

If it were me, I would ask them to recommend a complete system. Let them know what the issues are.

You can find aqua-fin products at Kenseal.

In regards to the oil, they will likely tell you to grind it out and replace the concrete with an epoxy patch of some sort.

This is not what you want to hear but it's reality.

 

[FleaDog]

I used three calcium chloride tests in my 1300 sq ft shop.
I averaged around 8lbs.

I looked into ALL the major brands and they are spendy
and KOSTER wont let non pros do their own.

I wound using two coats of a moisture
barrier epoxy from BDC(BD Classics)
along with their Clear epoxy and Polyurethane.

My first coat was clear and the 2nd coat was gray
into which we broadcast chips to refusal.

Been down 6 months and so far so good

Had concrete shot blasted first

Sea-Tac locals invited to view.

Back from the dead, how is this holding up? Thx

 

[Burnt C6]

Wow, that's a high MVT rate. Do you smell moisture in your garage? Is your slab below grade? Do you have efflorescence on the concrete? Did you do the test with just one kit or did you place a second or third down? Are you positive about your weights? I know of more than one person who made a mistake with measuring the weight. If it was only one test and your answer is "no" to the questions above, you may want to reconsider doing another test. And yes, most professionals will do a moisture test first. Here is an article about moisture testing your concrete before epoxy that you might find helpful.

4 lbs is generally the upper limit for epoxy. There are moisture preventative penetrating sealers that can be applied to create a moisture vapor barrier within the concrete and then use a moisture preventative epoxy primer before the base coat.

Thanks for the link to the moisture testing procedure. I'm fixing to do mine so I'll set one up this evening when I get home.