Planning a Garage on a Budget

[TurboEuro88]

Longtime lurker... read many builds and have been inspired by all the different builds I've seen. From the basic, cheap ones to the expensive, no bars held ones. All have been fantastic and a reflection of their owners... and hopefully I can build something for myself!

I've finally graduated from college, settled into a career, and find myself wanting to build a garage. My dad is approaching retirement and I know he wants to buy a toy car soon. Being an enthusiast myself (I own a 04 VW GLI and will be picking up a 08 Audi A4 Avant S-line this weekend), I think it's time my dad and I build a garage together for us to put our toys in.

We're not looking to build something extravagant. We're limited by space and finances, but still want to build the best garage we can. We're also in this for the long-haul and I definitely see this being a slow-going project. When I was younger, I helped my dad practically build the house we've lived in for the last 13 years, and I figure now that Im older and more able-bodied, we can do a little more ourselves too.

On to the project...

I think we're in general agreement that we want the garage to at least be 24x24 in size, though I think we should go with a 36'w by 24'd design with a single double car garage door. Opinions on both? I think I'd prefer extra room to the sides for working on cars or to put cabinets/workbenches. We both would like to build it with 12' ceilings to accommodate a lift in the future, but it may get ruled out if the cost differences become too much to work around

So this brings me to the final question. In the experience of those of you who have built or quoted a garage of this type or size, what kind of a budget should my dad and I set forth? Mind you, right now we're looking simply to get the structure up with concrete floors, a roof, and a basic exterior. All electrical, plumbing (if needed), doors, and windows will be something we'd do ourselves outside the scope of the basic build.

If you need any further clarification, feel free to ask. As I mentioned earlier, we're in no rush and are in this for the long haul - right now we're just trying to set a budget so we can get the ball rolling.

Thanks!

 

[pmiranda]

Bigger is better, but if I had to choose between bigger footprint and higher ceilings I'd go with the higher ceilings. I think it's easier to add on than add up.

 

[lisiecki1]

I am exactly at the point you are discussing right now on my 26x36x12. Current total is under $6000.

That is with me doing everything myself, except the actual pouring and finishing of the concrete.

Wood framed on 16" centers, truss roof on 4' centers, walls covered with 29ga. corrugated galvanized tin, roof with 29ga. "classic rib", a small bathroom in the back corner, and managed to have left over and reclaimed materials (from the slab form) that built a mezzanine approximately halfway around the garage.

You have to take into account that I got a smoking deal on my roll up doors though.

 

[TurboEuro88]

I def agree that if we can have a taller garage that has less lateral space, I can deal with it. As you put it, pmiranda, you can always expand laterally.

lisiecki1, I think we'd prefer not going the route of a metal roof, though exterior walls could be. Ill have to run it by my dad to see where he stands on the project.

I think my dad and I could build the walls pretty easily - he's done a lot of framing of the kind in the past and has experience as a general contractor (was one when we built the house). That said, I dont know if we'd be able to do the foundation, trusses, and the roofing.

lisiecki1, what kind of a foundation are you doing? I think we'd like to do concrete block as opposed to a poured floor with posts. It might be one of the extra costs we'd prefer eating than skipping out on.

Making yours happen for $6k is amazing. If we were able to do our garage on a similar budget, I have to believe we'd be able to get the basic structure up before winter.

 

[hh76]

I def agree that if we can have a taller garage that has less lateral space, I can deal with it. As you put it, pmiranda, you can always expand laterally.

lisiecki1, I think we'd prefer not going the route of a metal roof, though exterior walls could be. Ill have to run it by my dad to see where he stands on the project.

I think my dad and I could build the walls pretty easily - he's done a lot of framing of the kind in the past and has experience as a general contractor (was one when we built the house). That said, I dont know if we'd be able to do the foundation, trusses, and the roofing.
lisiecki1, what kind of a foundation are you doing? I think we'd like to do concrete block as opposed to a poured floor with posts. It might be one of the extra costs we'd prefer eating than skipping out on.

Making yours happen for $6k is amazing. If we were able to do our garage on a similar budget, I have to believe we'd be able to get the basic structure up before winter.

Trusses and roofing are actually fairly simple on a basic, 2-facet roof. Just takes time and a little studying.

 

[lisiecki1]

My foundation is 8x8 around the perimeter and 5" through the center with 3/8 rebar on 16" centers, two rebar loops around the bottom of the perimeter, and rebar braces driven into the corners that run through the center. (Like a big X)

Doing the form/dirt work/rebar prep myself my slab was completed for right at $2000.

 

[Kevin54]

If you are going to have a project in the garage, don't go any less than 28'. There's been a few threads about going a little deeper. If you end up with a full size vehicle, car or truck, 24' deep gets real tight at times.

If you would decide to go with double doors go no less than 10 wide. The standard 9' wide doors get tight and again with a fullsize, you have to watch the mirrors.

 

[themiller]

make sure to run larger than needed conduit for future electrical upgrades

 

[TurboEuro88]

@Kevin54 I kinda feel the same way. His current garage is wonderful - fully insulated and heated. But he didnt design it to be wide enough to really work on cars without fumbling around with walls near cars on the sides. 24' deep would be plenty for us since the biggest vehicle we have or will have is his 2013 F-150. That comes out to 18' long, so unless we put cabinets along the wall opposite of the doors, we should have enough room. Don't see us putting larger vehicles in there i dont think.

Definitely agree about the doors.

@themiller, I already plan on spending the coin to run a full conduit line from the house to the garage to run electric, along with cable TV and full CAT6 ethernet. Would rather spend the money for the ability to run new wiring easily than having to dig it up!

@HH76 in all seriousness, how hard is it, and what studying needs to be done? I have plenty of friends I can coax into helping (beer is a wonderful form of currency), but figured that had to be something to let the pros do...

 

[pmiranda]

On the conduit from the house... code (and common sense) is often to have separate conduit for different voltages. Reason being that not all low voltage wiring has insulation rated for 120V or 240V that would be in your other wires. Also, for good signal quality you don't want to run low voltage wiring next to AC power lines. Unless you like 60Hz hum in your phone

Why no metal roof? I've been thinking about it for my future projects so I never have to worry about maintenance. Only issue is I don't know jack about installing it, but then I don't like working on roofs anyway so that's a mixed blessing!

 

[Falcon67]

@HH76 in all seriousness, how hard is it, and what studying needs to be done? I have plenty of friends I can coax into helping (beer is a wonderful form of currency), but figured that had to be something to let the pros do...

Depends on your skill level, the available equipment and really - wall height. You can review my build using 8' walls - I can lift and set a 12' wall section myself. Two people can heft materials up 8 or 10'. 10' is going to be a little harder and you'll need taller ladders to set the walls. 12' is much harder to get to. At 10+ you are probably going to want trusses and you'll need a small crane or Skyjacker to lift and set them. You can still save big bucks DIY. Then you get to the roof pitch and how you feel being on a 6/12 pitch 18'~20' in the air, not counting how you get materials up there.

If I personally had the need for a 12' wall building, I'd be inclined to quote it out foundation, stick walls and finished roof. I would leave the siding, soffits, interior, etc DIY.

Don't discount a metal roof - lots of houses in the this area use steel for roofing. It's high end, long life and will survive all but the meanest hail storms.

That F150 will make 24' look real small, trust me. You can work in that space however. I can pull engines and transmissions from 16' race cars in a 22' space no problem so it can work. I'm at 24' now and I can tell you that if I'd gone 26' it'd have been worth the extra material costs. I vote 36' wide minimum if you put 3 cars in there. I have a 28' open space for parking and getting three in there is a real squeeze. The outer doors on the outer cars are no-op in that space.

Having done a big one DIY, I can tell you it's a very satisfying project for an aggressive DIYer. And - its a hell of a lot of work.

 

[lisiecki1]

Depends on your skill level, the available equipment and really - wall height. You can review my build using 8' walls - I can lift and set a 12' wall section myself. Two people can heft materials up 8 or 10'. 10' is going to be a little harder and you'll need taller ladders to set the walls. 12' is much harder to get to. At 10+ you are probably going to want trusses and you'll need a small crane or Skyjacker to lift and set them. You can still save big bucks DIY. Then you get to the roof pitch and how you feel being on a 6/12 pitch 18'~20' in the air, not counting how you get materials up there.

If I personally had the need for a 12' wall building, I'd be inclined to quote it out foundation, stick walls and finished roof. I would leave the siding, soffits, interior, etc DIY.

Don't discount a metal roof - lots of houses in the this area use steel for roofing. It's high end, long life and will survive all but the meanest hail storms.

Having done a big one DIY, I can tell you it's a very satisfying project for an aggressive DIYer. And - its a hell of a lot of work.

That would've made things a lot easier. We had 5 people and set my trusses by hand; and the roll-up doors.

 

[dubber]

Looking forward to this progressing. And i wouldn't mind seeing some pics of those cars

 

[MonteMike79]

I'm putting up a 30x32 right now, block foundation, concrete footer, 9 ft walls on top of block for roughly 9'10" ceiling on one half with attic, other half roughly 13ft ceiling on other side with scissor trusses to put a lift in. I'd do 12ft ceiling all the way across with attic, but we have a height restriction in my township. 18x8 garage door, one man door, pex in floor to hook up heat down the road. Just going to have it dried in and floor done this yr. Electric and heat, etc. will be down the road. I plan to have 20k in it this yr. I am paying someone to dry it in to save time, and it is easier for me to work overtime on Saturdays than to kill myself trying to build this thing, and he can have it done in 2 days vs me taking all summer. I've been planning this since last yr, made lots of phone calls, quotes, lining up work. It pays off in the end.

 

[TurboEuro88]

@pmiranda you bring up a good point. May have run a smaller, separate conduit for data/video. I'll look into that because it's been quite some time since I last checked code in our area.

Regarding metal the metal roof... I'll run it by the pops again, but I think he doesn't want to do it for aesthetics and noise. I know he's talked about doing a more farm-like pole barn before, but if its going to be a garage he seemed to prefer doing a more traditional roof. I suppose itll be a TBD item. Im not one to fear heights too much, but ive also never done anything roof-like so it'd be learning experience.

@Falcon67... Thats very valuable info on the trusses. And also a good point about getting materials up there. However, the idea of getting the quote for stick walls and a finished roof may be the smart idea if we don't think we can DIY the roof ourselves. I know with my dad's age it means I'd be doing more, and with my inexperience with the roof aspect, it makes more sense. Time to make some phone calls and get some quotes!

Depth.... Id have to see what the costs differences are. My dad and I have a tentative agreement to split the costs to make this garage happen, so itll come down to how much that extra 2 or 4 feet in depth adds to the cost of the project. Im certainly open to it, though I doubt that F150 would be in the garage that often haha

@Dubber, here's some photos for you.... GLI is what I have, Audi is what I am getting soon

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/936777_10201043870725664_1138225027_n.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5138/5474836757_bcf143738c_o.jpg

 

[dubber]

Nice Blue Lagoon, and that Avant is money!

 

[hh76]

@Kevin54 I kinda feel the same way. His current garage is wonderful - fully insulated and heated. But he didnt design it to be wide enough to really work on cars without fumbling around with walls near cars on the sides. 24' deep would be plenty for us since the biggest vehicle we have or will have is his 2013 F-150. That comes out to 18' long, so unless we put cabinets along the wall opposite of the doors, we should have enough room. Don't see us putting larger vehicles in there i dont think.

Definitely agree about the doors.

@themiller, I already plan on spending the coin to run a full conduit line from the house to the garage to run electric, along with cable TV and full CAT6 ethernet. Would rather spend the money for the ability to run new wiring easily than having to dig it up!

@HH76 in all seriousness, how hard is it, and what studying needs to be done? I have plenty of friends I can coax into helping (beer is a wonderful form of currency), but figured that had to be something to let the pros do...

Roofing is pretty simple, just follow the directions on the package if you are familiar with roofing. If not, read up on it. It only gets complicated when you start to add in a additional roof facets and architectrual details.

Trusses are pretty simple, just big and awkward. I spent a couple summers framing houses with my brother, and the two of us set trusses without machinery. Just have to have a gameplan for holding everything while fastening. Watch some videos, and you should be able to figure out what would work for you and the help you have available.

 

[Thumper68]

I'd choose the metal roof hands down, They are easy to install. on mine I did the traditional osb, underlayment then 22 gage roofing, I planned the shop to use 22 foot panals and they layed right in, the only issue is getting the first one straight. then it's just a matter of screwing them down.

If I was doing it again I would job out the concrete and do all the rest myself.

 

[TurboEuro88]

This discussion has been great. Lots of ideas to build from (pun unintended lol)

Going home this weekend and will have the opportunity to really nail out the details with the pops. Hopefully we can get the ball rolling soon!

Going to push to get the foundation, walls, and roof finished before winter. Worry about pouring concrete later unless the funds or desire is there.

Been watching a ton of videos on how to put up the trusses. Definitely seems doable with a few people to help and a little bit of knowledge of what you're doing.

 

[TurboEuro88]

A few questions that come to mind:

1) What are the concrete requirements for lifts? Id like to say that I think its somewhere around 6" but I am not sure. Id like to at least have the area where we'd eventually install a lift prepared for the requirements for a lift.

2) Id like to do some kind of a floor drain so that, if I wanted to, I could wash cars indoors during the winters. I do realize there some code/legal issues tied to this subject, but the property is in a very rural area - we have no sewers or city water (our own septic drain field and our own water well) and drain all of the gutters into a creek near the house. I don't recall there being much of a code prohibiting their use. Problem is, the drain would also be in a garage (mind you this is a PERSONAL garage, not a business) and we'd inevitably be doing some kind of work in there with automotive fluids (oil, coolant, etc) which we wouldn't want getting into the drain. What types of solutions has everyone come up with to fix this? I was thinking a drain going legnthwise across the opening near the garage door with a slight pitch of the concrete towards those doors to at least help the water move towards the drain... but also dont want to put too much of a pitch into the floor so as to adversely affect the ability to use a creeper or floor jacks.

Thoughts?

 

[NHBandit]

12' walls in a 24x24 garage would look pretty odd I would think but I can relate to being on a budget. Also keep in mind that if you do put in a lift you will likely not be able to put the lift up all the way with the garage door open. My old carport is 24x24 and it was VERY tight with 2 cars in it and toolboxes along one side. If I moved one of the cars over enough to open the drawers fully on the toolbox then I could barely open the doors on the cars. 24 deep dosn't give you much room for a bench or anything like that either and you can pretty much forget doing engine swaps or any of that type of thing. My new garage is 30x40x12 and now that it's filling up with "stuff" it seems to be getting smaller..

 

[pmiranda]

I'm right with you on the floor drain. My "plan" was to either use a drain with a slotted cover that could be swapped for a solid cover when not washing a car, or put it where I can put one of those leak-stopping "snakes" you sometimes see... I think they're just cloth tubes filled with sand. In any case, I'd want some landscaping cloth or something like that to keep debris and small parts from getting lost in the wash. Probably just have a roll of it and put a fresh sheet under the cover once in a while.

Then I'd feel good about routing it out to the yard or even a below-grade tank for watering stuff. My plan is to collect rain water, too, although I don't know enough about keeping the water from getting funky yet to start digging.

 

[lisiecki1]

A few questions that come to mind:

1) What are the concrete requirements for lifts? Id like to say that I think its somewhere around 6" but I am not sure. Id like to at least have the area where we'd eventually install a lift prepared for the requirements for a lift.
When I was researching this a few months ago I found everything from 4" of 18"oc reinforced 3000psi concrete to 6" of 24"oc reinforced 4000psi concrete. I'm sure it depends on the manufacturer. If you know what lift you want before hand find out what they spec out. I decided to do 5" and 16"oc reinforced, 3500psi. I'm sure you will find many opinions on GJ for lift-slab thickness requirements.

2) Id like to do some kind of a floor drain so that, if I wanted to, I could wash cars indoors during the winters. I do realize there some code/legal issues tied to this subject, but the property is in a very rural area - we have no sewers or city water (our own septic drain field and our own water well) and drain all of the gutters into a creek near the house. I don't recall there being much of a code prohibiting their use. Problem is, the drain would also be in a garage (mind you this is a PERSONAL garage, not a business) and we'd inevitably be doing some kind of work in there with automotive fluids (oil, coolant, etc) which we wouldn't want getting into the drain. What types of solutions has everyone come up with to fix this? I was thinking a drain going legnthwise across the opening near the garage door with a slight pitch of the concrete towards those doors to at least help the water move towards the drain... but also dont want to put too much of a pitch into the floor so as to adversely affect the ability to use a creeper or floor jacks.

Thoughts?

above.

 

[TurboEuro88]

Yeah... 12' cielings on a 24x24 would look odd. A friend of mine is building just that and while theyre making the exterior look amazing (and match the house), it just a bit awkward because of the height. I am settling more into a 32x24x10 design right now... seems to be the right amount of work space with the proper amount of ceiling space. I'll be scoping out the location this weekend to make sure everything will work

Re: Concrete... I figured I'd ask because I saw almost the exact same variance in answers. Unfortunately I don't have any clue what kind of lift we'd be installing, nor do we have the intent to put one up any time soon, so it poses a small problem for determining what thickness to go with. Time to do more googling/research.

 

[NHBandit]

Yeah... 12' cielings on a 24x24 would look odd. A friend of mine is building just that and while theyre making the exterior look amazing (and match the house), it just a bit awkward because of the height. I am settling more into a 32x24x10 design right now... seems to be the right amount of work space with the proper amount of ceiling space. I'll be scoping out the location this weekend to make sure everything will work

Re: Concrete... I figured I'd ask because I saw almost the exact same variance in answers. Unfortunately I don't have any clue what kind of lift we'd be installing, nor do we have the intent to put one up any time soon, so it poses a small problem for determining what thickness to go with. Time to do more googling/research.

Good choice and you might be surprised at how little the larger size actually adds to the price. For example concrete. A big part of the expense is the prep work, making arrangements for the truck, etc. For example I was quoted $3800 to pour the slab for my 30x40. When I asked about adding a 4' apron to the front(making it actually 30x44) the added cost was only 200 bucks.

 

[lisiecki1]

Re: Concrete... I figured I'd ask because I saw almost the exact same variance in answers. Unfortunately I don't have any clue what kind of lift we'd be installing, nor do we have the intent to put one up any time soon, so it poses a small problem for determining what thickness to go with. Time to do more googling/research.

If you can afford it, I would do a 12x12 beam around the perimeter and make the slab 6" with 1/2" rebar on 18" centers, 3500 psi.

I would think that would cover just about any lift you might eventually put in there.

Of course if you're up north I have no idea about the specs regarding frost lines and such.

We do have some concrete professionals on the site here, maybe they will chime in with some recommendations....

Not sure what the going rate is in your area. I paid $70/yard. The slab that I spec'd out earlier, and an additional 4' x 12' x 3.5" pad in front of my wife's art studio came out to 15.5 yards.

Watch out for the online calculators though. I thought I did a pretty good job using the calculators to estimate how much concrete I'd need. Wound up needing a 3 yard kicker.

 

[TurboEuro88]

We may have to do a couple of courses of concrete block as the foundation of the structure due to the frost we experience during the winter, which would eliminate the need for the 12x12 beam around the perimeter. I've got an email out to a contact to get more info on that. I know people who have just done poured slabs too so... yeah not sure.

6" slab for the floor sounds about right for a lift from what Ive read over lunch today. We're not ever going to do any massive lifting (looking at 9000lb lifts, for reference), so that should suffice, I'd hope. Estimated costs come in to what I was expecting too. Im also over budgeting just in case we need some extra or we decide to do some kind of an apron for the garage.

 

[D.J.]

I've heard your better off giving the dimensions to the batch plant and letting them figure it so its thier baby if anything comes up short.

 

[VegasSteve]

My 2 cents or so.... I'm an architect; and added a 600sf shop to my house using subcontractor labor - it was built 6 weeks start-to-finish, last summer here in So. Nevada (I called in all my favors so I really can't speak to costs)... Other than materials which i bought out myself. Though I did some of the work myself, not enough to slow the build - i had a deadline (party event) that I had to hit! Also, I play with classic VWs, so I didn't need a super deep garage.
I did 3 key things, I very happy with:
1) I designed the garage as a drive-thru... 10 ft wide doors front and back... I don't need to drive-thru - but it gives me clearance front and back, and really expands the work area nicely. I also put another rear door at the 2nd bay for the same benefit.
2) I vaulted the ceiling rather than raising the plate height all the way around; ceiling is tall in the middle and works very nicely with my VWs on the 4-post Danmar Lift.
3) I installed the sectional garage doors to follow the sloped/vaulted ceiling; the placement of the ceiling mounted lights were coordinated with the windows in the doors when fully opened; AND I used wall-mounted door operators on the jack shaft (to the side of the opening) rather than the common trolley type.

Take a look at my photos and drawings..... The addition looks like it was original to the house.... My main objective..... Good Luck!

 

[TurboEuro88]

@VegasSteve.... thanks for all the insight!

Scoped out the location and due to the geography of the location we've decided we're probably going to have to go with a 30'x28' garage. Had we gone that last 6' width-wise, we would have run into issues of having to fill in a lot of dirt to get the foundation to grade. Unfortunately we can't shift the plan to one side to get it onto the flat spot due to zoning not letting us build closer than 30' of the property line.

That said... we're building the drawings now so we can figure out materials needs and start putting together a plan for getting this done. VegasSteve, as you pointed out, we are leaning towards the vaulted ceiling for the same reasons and the general look of the building with that tall of walls.

Mounting the garage doors such that they stay along the roof line is actually really smart for saving vertical space. My question about doing that is how secure are the doors at full open? Last thing I'd want to have happen is a door suddenly fall down on someone walking through the opening!

 

[VegasSteve]

Sectional doors have springs that provide a counterweight effect.... They are "pre-loaded" so they stay up. In fact, I have one with the jack shaft mounted operator, and one without. The door installers know how to set them up - it is not recommended that a homeowner try to set these up, as the spring loading is very dangerous.

Good luck - I can post pictures if you want me to.

 

[NUTTSGT]

@Kevin54 I kinda feel the same way. His current garage is wonderful - fully insulated and heated. But he didnt design it to be wide enough to really work on cars without fumbling around with walls near cars on the sides. 24' deep would be plenty for us since the biggest vehicle we have or will have is his 2013 F-150. That comes out to 18' long, so unless we put cabinets along the wall opposite of the doors, we should have enough room. Don't see us putting larger vehicles in there i dont think.

I'd glad to see you've made the switch to 28' over the 24' depth. I built our house garage as a 24x32, measured on the outside. Once you take off 16" for the block foundation and about 4 inches more for the overhead door in the closed position, you've closed that gap down just over 22'. While I'm not sure what you have as far as your F150 but my "08 SuperCab 6.5' bed measures 19 feet. it's fine for parking but it does get tight when moving around it.


I'll also throw this into the equation, do you have any siblings and where is this going to be built ? If you're going to incur half of the cost, you don't want to get screwed on this garage when the time comes and your father is no longer around. You most definetly need something in writing like his will. You do not want to be fighting for something that is already half yours.

 

[TurboEuro88]

We are thinking deeper since we can't go as wide as we wanted. The deeper shape will account for the cabinets/workbenches so that the shortened area to one side of the garage can be utilized as the hang out area exclusively.

I have 2 siblings. One lives next door... the other will be graduating soon too, but don't really know what she'll be up to. You do bring up a good point about my dad... something I don't like to think about, but its a valid one no less. I may look into things, but the way I look at it... even if this garage gets built and he's around for 10 years at which point I lose it to whatever reasons may come up, it was still worth it. At that point I hope to be living in my own place and I hope i'll be able to build my own garage there. Yeah, this would be "half" mine, but I see it as more of an investment into something my dad and I can share together for years to come. Im not really in it for it to be mine exclusively from this point forward. Hopefully that makes sense!

 

[NUTTSGT]

I have 2 siblings. One lives next door... the other will be graduating soon too, but don't really know what she'll be up to. You do bring up a good point about my dad... something I don't like to think about, but its a valid one no less. I may look into things, but the way I look at it... even if this garage gets built and he's around for 10 years at which point I lose it to whatever reasons may come up, it was still worth it. At that point I hope to be living in my own place and I hope i'll be able to build my own garage there. Yeah, this would be "half" mine, but I see it as more of an investment into something my dad and I can share together for years to come. Im not really in it for it to be mine exclusively from this point forward. Hopefully that makes sense!

It makes sense and I applaud you for wanting to do this with your father. I wish you nothing but the best on the build and using it after it's done.

I just wanted to throw out the words of warning about the siblings. I have seen more than 1 family divided after one or both of the parents are gone.

BTW, when you start asking specific questions for your build, it will help if you put a general location in your profile. It'll help the rest of the members give you the best advice possible for your location.

 

[jarhead]

Sectional doors have springs that provide a counterweight effect.... They are "pre-loaded" so they stay up. In fact, I have one with the jack shaft mounted operator, and one without. The door installers know how to set them up - it is not recommended that a homeowner try to set these up, as the spring loading is very dangerous.

Good luck - I can post pictures if you want me to.

If he is building his own garage, he can do this himself.

When they delivered my door the two "guys" told my wife I couldn't do it.

She told them "well he built the house, the garage, the barn, basically STFU delivery guys. I had never done any of those things before, and she helped, and so did my 70 year old Dad.

It is dangerous, I will give that, you dont want to get hit with a tensioning rod. I am not trying to be a ****, but it is a doable job.

stand to one side when you do it. if the spring comes loose and the rod comes out you will be f'd...