water pressure tank location

[moobeast2]

I need to replace my parents hot water heater, and move it's location in the basement. They live in an old farmhouse which gets water from the barn well, about 200 ft away. The farm well also supplies the barns, (still in use). Supply comes into basement, hooks to a second pressure tank, then feeds the house. Does this second tank do anything, is it necessary? It is not connected in any way to anything but the water lines.The house pressure isn't great, but they are ok with it.
Should there be a check valve on the supply line?
Also, I may put a water softener in later. If that pressure tank stays, does it matter what part of the system the softener goes? ie either before or after the pressure tank.
Thanks for any help.

 

[LEVE]

Is the second tank a "Captive Air" tank? If so, what it does is prevents the well pump from having to turn on every time the water is used. This keeps the pump from wearing out from continued cycling. I'd vote that it's necessary....

 

[Highbeam]

Most residential wells have at least one 80 gallonish expansion tank. This prevents short cycling the pump and keeps water pressure pretty consistent in the home. The more tanks you have, the better. The tanks do get old and fail though so you need to check for that.

The tanks can be anywhere in the system to do their job so long as the only check valve is right at the well head where it belongs.

 

[Kevin54]

Most residential wells have at least one 80 gallonish expansion tank. This prevents short cycling the pump and keeps water pressure pretty consistent in the home. The more tanks you have, the better. The tanks do get old and fail though so you need to check for that.

The tanks can be anywhere in the system to do their job so long as the only check valve is right at the well head where it belongs.

Depends on location. My tank is approximately 20-30 gallons. We have good water pressure other than when the plumber added a couple of hose bib;s outside. They don't have the pressure I would like.

And if I am right, a pressure tank is to control high pressure and not to boost pressure I think there was a lengthy discussion on here a while back about pressure tanks. I always thought it was to INCREASE pressure in the lines and not to REDUCE pressure in the lines.

But my nickles worth, I'm a city kid. We have lived in the country for 20 years now, and I guess the plumbing runs as it should. I do know that a few years back, we hardly had a trickle out of the faucets and I thought WTF!!!! I called my plumber buddy and he came over, cranked up the pressure on the pressure tank, yet we still couldn't get more than a trickle out of the faucets. Come to find out that the whole house filter was plugged.

So I am going to watch this thread. I would like to have more pressure out of the lines. But some say a pressure tank increases the pressure in the house, and others say it controls the pressure and reduces what would otherwise be a direct line.

 

[OldracerJones]

Leve is right, the primary purpose of the pressure tank is to prevent constant cycling of the pump by controlling the pump with a pressure switch that only kicks the pump on at a preset pressure.

 

[kbs2244]

As far as the whole system is concerned the tank location doesn’t matter.

If you put a check valve between the house tank and the barn you will keep the barn usage from dropping the house pressure.
But that is all until the pump gets the whole system up to the set off limit.

 

[OrneryDuck]

This question is hot on my mind as well. Presently I have an 80 gallon water tank, water conditioning unit, 25 gallon fluid holding tank and water heater. All of them take of space I'd rather have free for other purposes. The two pumps (home feed and irrigation) are currently set atop cinder blocks with all sorts of nature growing around them.

I would like to pour a small concrete pad (8'x8') to better fasten the pumps and relocate the water pressure tank and conditioning system to it. I'd enclose it all to protect against the elements of course. I'd keep the water heater in the garage for the benefit of quick hot water delivery, but I'd like to raise the unit off the ground a bit and install drainage/drip tray as none exists at present.

 

[pmiranda]

If you have the cash, a good gas connection, and need the space, I highly recommend a tankless water heater. We got a Rinnai a couple years ago and I love the extra space it's opened in the garage. Wall mounted and out of the way. Easy to maintain, too.

 

[OrneryDuck]

If you have the cash, a good gas connection, and need the space, I highly recommend a tankless water heater. We got a Rinnai a couple years ago and I love the extra space it's opened in the garage. Wall mounted and out of the way. Easy to maintain, too.

Last house we rented was gas, hated it! Expensive to run compared to a good electric system -- it has its own very positive benefits for sure, they just don't fit into my scope of needs. I'm happy to be back in an all-electric home; the only thing I wish I still had an NG feed for would be to run a generator. *shrug* Seems there are some electric tankless systems available too though.

Does it ever run cold or not as hot as you expect? Seems like maintenance would be far lower since there is no tank to worry about accumulating sediment.

 

[rvr6000]

Grandparents have similar setup except they only have one pressure tank and it is in the well house which is about 300 feet from the house. The line from the pressure tank to the house is 1 1/4" plastic. Dad and I did replace the pump about 25 years ago otherwise no other changes. Pressure is good. I'm inclined to think you could remove the other tank if it is in the way.

 

[pmiranda]

Last house we rented was gas, hated it! Expensive to run compared to a good electric system -- it has its own very positive benefits for sure, they just don't fit into my scope of needs.

Does it ever run cold or not as hot as you expect? Seems like maintenance would be far lower since there is no tank to worry about accumulating sediment.

Huh. In Texas gas is cheaper to run than electric. They have tankless electrics but because it has to heat all the water at flow rate, they're only good for small homes in moderate climates. The little point-of-use electrics seem great for a garage or apartment and I see them everywhere in Europe.
Depending on your local codes and inspector, you don't need to provision for a T&P relief line so the little ones can go anywhere.

The only problem I've seen with our tankless is the same problem we've had with our conventional water heater which is the time to get hot water to the far end of the house. We eliminated that by adding a small (5 or 10 gallon?) electric water heater in the attic above the big one with a circulating pump that runs in the morning and evening. It provides very fast hot water that is refreshed by the big unit. That probably prevents a problem I've heard of where a tankless won't fire up at low flow rates to reduce cycling.

 

[grumpygator]

Unless the tank has a bladder in it the traped air will be absorbed.No air pocket = less pressure and more pump cycles.
I had to drain mine every other month till I got the tank with the bladder.
***********Just Saying**********Gator***********

 

[CNGsaves]

Last house we rented was gas, hated it! Expensive to run compared to a good electric system -- it has its own very positive benefits for sure, they just don't fit into my scope of needs. I'm happy to be back in an all-electric home; the only thing I wish I still had a CNG feed for would be to run a generator. *shrug* Seems there are some electric tankless systems available too though.

Does it ever run cold or not as hot as you expect? Seems like maintenance would be far lower since there is no tank to worry about accumulating sediment.

Problem with having All-Electric in Florida is you could be without power for long time if hurrricane or bad storm takes out electric lines. Guesing that is why you made comment of wanting to have a generator.

However, your terminology is incorrect as CNG is Compressed Natural Gas . . . which is totally different than having a Natural Gas line to your house. If your particular housing development does not have natural gas nearby that you can connect to, then backup fuel for a generator would be LPG (liquid propane gas . . . . ie Propane). In Florida, you'd likely need to have the tank buried in back yard so that potential flooding would not wash tank away.

Lots of threads on GJ that go over all the benefits of tankless hot water units.

 

[OrneryDuck]

Problem with having All-Electric in Florida is you could be without power for long time if hurrricane or bad storm takes out electric lines. Guesing that is why you made comment of wanting to have a generator.

However, your terminology is incorrect as CNG is Compressed Natural Gas . . . which is totally different than having a Natural Gas line to your house. If your particular housing development does not have natural gas nearby that you can connect to, then backup fuel for a generator would be LPG (liquid propane gas . . . . ie Propane). In Florida, you'd likely need to have the tank buried in back yard so that potential flooding would not wash tank away.

Lots of threads on GJ that go over all the benefits of tankless hot water units.

Corrected error in fuel type as the rental was natural gas (NG), thanks. We do have a small (100lbs) LPG tank for our fire place, it is above ground though and kinda hokey. I'd like to replace it with an underground unit and of course a sacrificial anode, for both tidiness and safety.

Spot on about your assumption, sadly we are a ways away from getting a generator, and given the properties configuration, I'll likely be seeking a diesel unit when the time comes. I missed out on a nice 'smaller' CAT unit from my work two years ago (as we weren't planning to buy anything then) that would of only cost shipping and of course the time of a skilled electrician to integrate it. Would have been overkill for sure, but we would have been able to operate 'as normal' if power was out for a few days.

Dancing closer to the original topic, slightly;I'm pretty sure I'll be stuck with the traditional heater for now until it forces our hand to change it. If it starts to fail or show wear, I can broach the subject again. I really like the look of the Stiebel Eltron heat pump and some of the benefits of it, but I'm not fond of the price! The Stiebel Eltron Tempura tankless system at least offers a space savings and should do at least as well as the aging A.O. Smith traditional element unit we have presently. I've never had a tankless system though to know how well they work -- it seems very popular in Europe and they have picked up speed here, leading me to believe most of the 'kinks' had been worked out. My waiting a bit longer might not be so bad after all if there are more advancements to be made in the tech.

Anyone ever temporarily remove their water heater? I'm having the floors epoxied next month (one day install) and the heater (and water treatment system) are in the way. The guy said he could go around them if all else fails but I'd prefer to have the WHOLE floor epoxied since time/money in the future will hopefully allow for more changes in those systems. Ours is soldered copper from the wall into threaded fittings. I'd like to cut it back (cap it), remove the heater from the garage for the day and insert brass isolating valves on each side before re-installation. Reality sometimes falls further from the idea than I like though, so we will see.

 

[schwalby]

To the OP. The water tank does not add pressure it is pretty much exactly like a tank on an air compressor. It just holds a reserve of water under pressure so the pump doesn't have to come on all the time. As far as removing the second one in / near the house you can remove it without any issue. You can also installed a water softener anywhere in the system just remember only the water after the softener will be affected.

Only reason everything is usually installed next to the well pump is for simplicity. In my home I tee off before the filters for all my outside faucets. No reason to water the lawn with filtered water.