My driveway project is a disaster..Please help...

[hillbillypimpin]

Longtime lurker who's never had to post..Appreciate any feedback.

So Ill back up and explain from the beginning, as this is somewhat long and I appreciate any feedback..I feel boxed in and powerless here

Had a blacktop driveway ripped up and a concrete driveway poured last August. I extended the concrete about 3' out from where the blacktop was, and also had the guy pour a stamped/colored sidewalk.

Immediately after finishing the sidewalk, there was problems. He used some kind of powder for the color..On a windy day. The powder meant to land on the sidewalk went all over the driveway turning it pink.

He came several times and used a powerwasher to try to diminish it...It didnt work. It finally dissipated on its own, and by this spring is barely noticeable.
Heres a pic just after it was finished.



I also noticed at the time it has these odd black spots...Dont know if I am being picky or this indicates a problem. Also, there is one area with probably a 15" x 15" rust area.....Rebar pulled to high maybe? I dont have a pic of that right now though...Heres the spots.


However, after the winter, I noticed there was a 17' (foot) crack that actually jumped the control joints..Also happened around a low area where water was pooling up



As this had a 2 year warranty in writing, I contacted the guy who did it..He came out, was willing to cut out and replace the cracked part. He started busting it up Jun 1. This is how it looks today. Supposedly will be out next week to finish it up...Assuming its dry enough. Yesterday this was a massive puddle after some rain we got.



So now, here I am stuck. Waiting on this guy who has me by the balls. He got somewhat argumentative with me when I went through the list of **** he messed up on, basically said I was asking to much of him for a simple crack. I pointed out it wasnt a simple crack, I could overlook that, but a 17' long crack going to a low area. As I said this, it hit me I had pics of when he was pouring it my wife had texted in her excitement

This brought out another can of worms in my mind.

This doesnt look like rebar and compacted, does it? I always envisioned rebar being thicker.



I guess I dont know what do to. Maybe I'm overreacting. I hate not knowing what I am talking about to form a good argument. I am starting to lean toward legal action, specifically if this isn't fixed by the end of the week. I am half tempted to hire another company to pour and at least get my driveway operational again...Then go after him for the money.

What do you pros think? Makes me sick.

 

[hillbillypimpin]

Here is another pic I just came across on my phone. the crack started right where this guy is standing.....It was done in two pours, what you see was day one, the next day was the remaining and the walkway.

 

[Kels]

Looks like its concrete wire mesh, not rebar.

Did you get a contract? how does the contract read if you have one?

 

[BlindViper]

If you dont give him a chance to fix it I don't see you having much legal recourse

 

[hillbillypimpin]

Looks like its concrete wire mesh, not rebar.

Did you get a contract? how does the contract read if you have one?

Pretty basic..I dont have it here in front of me, but basically something like 4' 4000 psi reinforced concrete with two year warranty etc...I am pretty sure it does say old will be removed and ground compacted.

I think it says rebar..maybe it does say mesh, Ill have to look when i get home.

 

[Chaznsc]

You wouldn't put rebar in unless it was a much thicker slab. Wire reinforcing is pretty common in residential applications, provided it gets INTO the concrete a couple of inches.

 

[hillbillypimpin]

You wouldn't put rebar in unless it was a much thicker slab. Wire reinforcing is pretty common in residential applications, provided it gets INTO the concrete a couple of inches.

Could it not being "into" the concrete cause the rusty spot? I will get a pic of it tonight...I just dont have a clue what else could cause it.

 

[rancherbill]

Where are you located?

It looks like it was poured on soil. Here the soil would be removed and then gravel compacted.

 

[wellpoison]

Where are you located?

It looks like it was poured on soil. Here the soil would be removed and then gravel compacted.

QFT. same here, it had me stumped to see them pouring on soil. even if it is compacted.

 

[topp64]

Hillbillypimpin, I am a supervisor for a concrete contractor and have done flatwork for over 30 years. From what I see in the pictures the sub grade has not been compacted and it is definitely wire mesh, not re-bar. I am not a fan of wire mesh because it is very hard to keep it pulled up and off the ground. Re-bar will prevent a slab from dropping if there is any kind of settling of material under the slab, wire mesh will not prevent this. I would guess the lack of compaction is the cause of your crack and possibly the reason for the low area. Dirt sub base is not an issue if it has been compacted and it's not too dry.

 

[Jagmandave]

Too dry ***** the moisture out of the concrete and doesn't let it cure properly?

Here in the midwest they use mesh and pour right over the dirt.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Pouring on soil down here in the south is pretty common.

To me it doesn't look like the soil was compacted, but it's hard to tell from two pics just at random points in time. I would think the area where the existing driveway was would already be compacted though. The additional wider area if they added fill would need to be properly compacted.

No comment on the wire mesh, I've only used it on small slab projects.

 

[atfulldraw]

crack = water

water = erosion

erosion = cracks

cracks = more water

more water = more erosion

I will say you are doing good that he actually came back out and worked on it, however I'm wondering what his plan is for tying into the existing concrete.

From what I can see so far, betting the end product is gonna look like hammered horse ****.

 

[ddawg16]

HillBilly....look on the bright side.....your disaster might save someone else in the future from making the same mistake...I learned a few things on this thread...

 

[ChevyEFI]

I've got one lane of the driveway in poor shape. Thanks for posting an informative thread with pictures and thanks to the knowledgeable guys for adding some detail.

 

[racingtadpole]

Do you guys not use chairs to lift the mesh off the ground?

http://www.arcreo.com.au/product_family/15

 

[FORMUD]

The biggest problem with using wire mesh is it ends up getting pushed down to the bottom of the concrete by the guys stepping on it while placing the conrete. It should be pulled up as work so it's in the middle ( 2" on a 4" slab ) If not, it will add little to no strengh to the concrete.

 

[FORMUD]

Do you guys not use chairs to lift the mesh off the ground?

http://www.arcreo.com.au/product_family/15

Not much on driveways. Most concractors seem to think it adds to much extra money to the job.....Your only looking at a couple of dollars for a five foot section.

 

[9GUY9]

Look at what he has busted up for replacement to ee if it has mesh or rebar, and where its sitting in the slab.

 

[jd_1138]

Another reason why these contractors need to do the job the right way from the get go -- with the spacer/chair thingies. Sure it might be $50-$100 for those or whatever, but it beats coming back and redoing concrete. Prep work pays huge dividends on projects. Too bad we have to babysit "professional" contractors to make sure they do the right thing.

 

[Engineer61]

Most common cause of rusty spots on my driveway is when I spread a dry fertilizer with iron on my lawn. Always get some granules onto the driveway, and each one causes a little rusty spot on the concrete.
Due to my clay soil that likes to "move", when I replaced my driveway I had them pour a 6" slab and use re-bar. The contractor looked at the obvious replacement slab that formed the first 6 feet of the driveway and how it had been raised 3 inches in the middle and broken in half and never quibbled about using the re-bar or going to 6 inches of concrete instead of 3 or 4. Ten years later that section of my driveway has been raised about 1/2 an inch in the middle, but the concrete is still in one piece and hasn't even cracked.

 

[InPrimer]

I'm no help, I have over 1800 sq' of concrete (outside) another 1500" inside(garage)
I was told upfront by the concrete guys 1. It'll crack, 2, no one is going to steal it, 3, it won't catch fire..not trying to bust your balls, its sometime **** happens, hope you can resolve your issue

 

[hillbillypimpin]

Thanks for the info and education everybody...I feel a little better at least knowing wtf is going on..I will update and get your opinion once the job is done.

 

[hillbillypimpin]

Re: My driveway project is a disaster..Please help...*updated*

Well, he finally came out and broke out the remaining concrete and repoured. I have to admit (to me) it looks better than I was afraid it might. He will come this weekend to saw the expansion joints

 

[EOC_Jason]

Ah, now we know why the driveway was cracking and sinking... It's from all the weight of that monster Prius! lol... j/k... looks like they did a nice job on the repair.

 

[Kels]

After my recent experience with a contractor, I'm just impressed, happy for you and jealous that he fixed it!

 

[sophijo]

Re: My driveway project is a disaster..Please help...*updated*

Well, he finally came out and broke out the remaining concrete and repoured. I have to admit (to me) it looks better than I was afraid it might. He will come this weekend to saw the expansion joints

There are two kinds of joints; control joints and expansion joints. The saw cuts are control joints.......to control the cracks. Expansion joints have asphalt impregnated material separating two sections.

 

[Clik]

I don't remember what it was called but I used a powder concrete coloring product years ago to make new concrete match old. Sprinkled it on brushed it in with a wet broom. Worked great. That may be your solution to rust spots. If you use a grinder on metal around fresh concrete it can cause rust spots.

 

[1jjpop]

I once read 90 % of wire mesh ends up on the ground after pouring . Mostly from workers standing on it while pouring , and not pulling it up, even if pulled up it is not level with top on concrete. You can't beat A good compacked subgrade [good moisture in subgrade & packed good.] My 2 cents worth..................................

 

[EOC_Jason]

You can't beat A good compacked subgrade [good moisture in subgrade & packed good.] My 2 cents worth..................................

That's the thing with concrete... 90% of the work is all in the prep.... The pour itself is not rocket science... But the finish work can also make or break it visually...

 

[g3integragsr]

Concrete Cracks. No way around it no matter what you do. That's the reason for saw cuts and groove's. It will ALWAYS crack, you just do what you can to control the cracking.

The black spots at the time are no big deal, as they should be gone now. That is part of the "bleaching" process (when the concrete is turning white and curing).

Wire mesh in driveways is by far the most common practice in this country. Unless it is a thick or structural slab there is no necessity for rebar. When we use wire mesh.. We ALWAYS pull it up as we are pouring. There is no reason for wire chairs, as long as you properly lift the mesh as the concrete is being poured.

Here in the Saint Louis area... any flatwork being poured is supposed to be done on clean fill rock that has been compacted. Pouring directly on soil around here is not common practice. It is also cheap and lazy.

 

[Kevin54]

Make sure you have pictures and dates of everything. If this pour goes south, you won't be getting him back out to do it again. If rebar was specified and you have wire mesh, make sure you have clear pictures and documentation. If the driveway was done in (2) two pours, the two sections of drive should have been pinned, or rebar extending from one pour to the next pour. You will also want to have notes about any backfill that was done, any compaction that SHOULD have been done, along with the weather noted for the days the pours were done. The reason I say this is that if it was halfassed the first time, it won't be much better on Round two. So if it ends up in court, you will need to have your guns loaded.

Good luck and keep us informed.