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Need a little help wiring 220v

19psi

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Lou-Evil KY
Ok everyone, I"m an automotive electrical genius but with AC, i'm clueless for the most part. I can put in outlets and whatnot, but I don't udnerstand much beyond that.

Here is a pic of my current breaker box in the garage.


There's an empty 50A breaker that I thought I could use for my lift (15A) and an add'l outlet for a welder and air compressor. These wouldn't be used at the same time so I think 50A total would be fine.

So my question is, where do I get 220V from to put into the breaker? From there, I think I can handle it.

I can shut off the power to the box from the house so I shouldn't have too much worries about zapping myself.

Thanks!
 
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LXCam

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Do not share the 220 50 amp circuit for the welder with the lift. Get a two pole 15 for it and mount it in the two spaces on the lower right. Properly protecting a device with the correct sized over current protection is extremely important. Long explanation short, installing a high ampacity breaker on too small a conductor is how fires can start. As for the other 120 circuit you want, pick up a twin breaker. These have two switches in a single pole size breaker.

Re-reading I may not have answered your question. That 50amp, the top pole is connected to phase A and the bottom to phase B, going across phase, A to B is where you'll get 220. Either phase to ground is 120v. Sharing the compressor and the welder is fine, run #8 wire to both. Your compressor should have a built in over current protection device, most starters do. But fir the lift you only need #14 gauge. The lift will not have a over current device built in. You could however get a two pole 30 amp rated fusable disconnect and install two 15amp fuses and use the shared 50 amp circuit.

Sorry if this came across a bit disjointed, phone posting is tuff for me.
 
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OP
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19psi

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Dec 19, 2011
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Lou-Evil KY
Do not share the 220 50 amp circuit for the welder with the lift. Get a two pole 15 for it and mount it in the two spaces on the lower right. Properly protecting a device with the correct sized over current protection is extremely important. Long explanation short, installing a high ampacity breaker on too small a conductor is how fires can start. As for the other 120 circuit you want, pick up a twin breaker. These have two switches in a single pole size breaker.

Re-reading I may not have answered your question. That 50amp, the top pole is connected to phase A and the bottom to phase B, going across phase, A to B is where you'll get 220. Either phase to ground is 120v. Sharing the compressor and the welder is fine, run #8 wire to both. Your compressor should have a built in over current protection device, most starters do. But fir the lift you only need #14 gauge. The lift will not have a over current device built in. You could however get a two pole 30 amp rated fusable disconnect and install two 15amp fuses and use the shared 50 amp circuit.

Sorry if this came across a bit disjointed, phone posting is tuff for me.


ok, I think the info i need is in your post, just trying to translate it to something I can understand.
the first part about running a separate breaker for the welder I udnerstand, will do.

So that 50A breaker techincally has 220V in it, all i need to is run my cable from the lift to that?
which colors do I "plug" into that breaker? 2 wires go into the breaker right?
and then the bare copper goes to the bus bar just like the others?
 

LXCam

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For the 220 lines, I suggest black and red. But two blacks or any other color with the exception of white and green. Yes the bare wire goes the grounded buss. And I can't stress the importance enough that using that fifty for the lift is bad mojo. Here's a good example for you, automotive style. 20 gauge wire hooked up to a 30 amp fuse running a cigarette lighter. Ya that's a extreme, but I'm sure you ran into something along those lines before.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Ok, first off, it looks like water is getting into the panel as evidenced by the rust/cancer in the bottom and on the main feeders in the top right breaker. U should first figure out how to keep the water out AND clean up the feeder wires. Condensation maybe? Is the garage fed by overhead service from the house?

Next, a double pole breaker in a 240v/120v fed panel will give u 240v potential between the 2 breaker lugs. So yes, u would run 2 blacks or a red and black to a double pole breaker and a green ground wire to the neutral bar since it appears that theres no ground bar. Which leads me to a question- is this a setached or attached garage? And IF detached, is there any metal running between the garage and the house such as gas or water lines?

For the lift, i would use 12/2 NM(yellow Romex), and put on a dedicated circuit(its own breaker).


Do not share the 220 50 amp circuit for the welder with the lift. Get a two pole 15 for it and mount it in the two spaces on the lower right. Properly protecting a device with the correct sized over current protection is extremely important. Long explanation short, installing a high ampacity breaker on too small a conductor is how fires can start. As for the other 120 circuit you want, pick up a twin breaker. These have two switches in a single pole size breaker.

Re-reading I may not have answered your question. That 50amp, the top pole is connected to phase A and the bottom to phase B, going across phase, A to B is where you'll get 220. Either phase to ground is 120v. Sharing the compressor and the welder is fine, run #8 wire to both. Your compressor should have a built in over current protection device, most starters do. But fir the lift you only need #14 gauge. The lift will not have a over current device built in. You could however get a two pole 30 amp rated fusable disconnect and install two 15amp fuses and use the shared 50 amp circuit.

Sorry if this came across a bit disjointed, phone posting is tuff for me.

I wouldnt suggest wire sizes to feed a compressor or welder when u dont even know the load or size of the unit. And not all compressors come with starters. Many come with just a pressure switch which has no overload protection.

ok, I think the info i need is in your post, just trying to translate it to something I can understand.
the first part about running a separate breaker for the welder I udnerstand, will do.

So that 50A breaker techincally has 220V in it, all i need to is run my cable from the lift to that?
which colors do I "plug" into that breaker? 2 wires go into the breaker right?
and then the bare copper goes to the bus bar just like the others?

Yes, a double pole breaker has 240v potential between its lugs. And 50a would be WAY to large to feed that lift. BTW, nominal voltage is 240v NOT 220v!
 
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19psi

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Ok guys, thanks for the info.

SO i will change out that 50A breaker for a 20A? for the lift. It's rated at 15A max.

regarding the moisture presence... I'm not sure why i tlooks like that... no actual water leak that I can find.
It rained like hell yesterday and I took the cover off today and not a drop of water anywhere or even anything damp. maybe that box was "recycled" from antoher building when they built this garage.

Garage is detached, no metal that I know of between the house and it. Is that important somehow?
 

LXCam

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Yo modesto, maybe try some decaff next time. Good luck op, if you have any other questions feel free to pm me. Been a sparky for 30 years, 20 if them as a contractor. Splitting hairs doesn't appeal to me over trivial **** when it doesn't matter.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Ok guys, thanks for the info.

SO i will change out that 50A breaker for a 20A? for the lift. It's rated at 15A max.

regarding the moisture presence... I'm not sure why i tlooks like that... no actual water leak that I can find.
It rained like hell yesterday and I took the cover off today and not a drop of water anywhere or even anything damp. maybe that box was "recycled" from antoher building when they built this garage.

Garage is detached, no metal that I know of between the house and it. Is that important somehow?

Regardless of the possible water intrusion, those feeder wires look really corroded/rusty if I'm seeing it right. Your gonna want to clean them up because it WILL cause an issue!

And i brought up the metal between buildings because it appears that u have a 3 wire feed and if there was metal between the buildings, it creates a hazard should the neutral wire ever develop a bad connection. But disregard all that since there isnt any parrallel conductive paths!
 
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19psi

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Thanks for the info guys, will report back with either success or baconized fingers. haha. preferably the former.

Headed to the Home Depot for a couple breakers and then time to finish this thing up.
 

CNGsaves

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Since detached, shouldn't garage have it's own ground rods outside?? I thought detached was supposed to have 4 wire??
 

LXCam

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Regardless of the possible water intrusion, those feeder wires look really corroded/rusty if I'm seeing it right. Your gonna want to clean them up because it WILL cause an issue!

And i brought up the metal between buildings because it appears that u have a 3 wire feed and if there was metal between the buildings, it creates a hazard should the neutral wire ever develop a bad connection. But disregard all that since there isnt any parrallel conductive paths!

Extremely valid points, no argument there.


Since detached, shouldn't garage have it's own ground rods outside?? I thought detached was supposed to have 4 wire??


That's been code for a lot of years. Used to be metal conduit (continuous) was permissible as the ground path and the neutral buss was bonded to the can. That changed to your description for good reason.
 
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19psi

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It's done. Everything went smoothly.
Checked those wires coming in, and they are actually clean. Bad lighting in the pic I suppose.

Thanks everyone!

Sent from my Motorola Galaxy s3 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 

wyliesdiesels

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Since detached, shouldn't garage have it's own ground rods outside?? I thought detached was supposed to have 4 wire??

Regardless of 3 wire or 4 wire feed, yes a detached building should have 2 ground rods(or one if under older code). As to the feeder, 3-wire feeders used to be allowed under older code cycles but that code was changed for very good reason. Existing 3-wire feeds are allowed and are whats called 'grandfathered in'!
 

Norcal

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Thanks for the info guys, will report back with either success or baconized fingers. haha. preferably the former.

Headed to the Home Depot for a couple breakers and then time to finish this thing up.


The correct breaker(s) for that ITE panel are Siemens do not use "will fit" breakers unless you have the paperwork that they are UL classified for ITE panels. Siemens bought ITE, BTW, never have seen anything allowing Murray (another Siemens brand) to be used in ITE, ITE/Siemens, or Siemens panels.



Edit: maybe should add Gould/ITE too.
 
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19psi

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Lou-Evil KY
Luckily I used Siemens breakers. Took that 50a one with me and matched it up at the store and the Siemens was the one that looked best to me.
 
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