Natural Gas Line Sizing - Looking for Insights

[InTheMitten]

With our building just getting finished up (my build progress), next steps are getting electrical run and I would like to put provisions in for the natural gas line.

Won't be hooking anything up right away but would like to get my trenching out of the way at one time. Any insights or recommendations on determining Natl. Gas line size? I'm thinking an overhead radiant system but unsure on dimensions, etc.

Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated!


Cheers!

 

[HoosierBuddy]

You really need to figure out your potential BTU load and the length of the run (likely back to the outlet of your gas meter). Those are necessary to figure it out.

Phil

 

[Steevo]

Given the size of the shop (26x42x12-ish), and the location (MI), you are probably looking at a 75K-90K BTU heater.

So, you need enough cu/ft/hr to supply that.
Natural gas delivers about 1000 BTU per cu/ft per hr.
80,000/1000=80 cu/ft/hr of gas needed.

A 1" gas line can flow approx. 220 cu/ft/hr at 80 ft length, and less at longer lengths.
(charts available on internet)
So, a 1" line from your meter to the shop should be more than sufficient, providing you aren't going more than 150' or so.

If less than 100ft., a 3/4" line would be plenty.

Provided your existing service can support that much additional capacity.

 

[InTheMitten]

Given the size of the shop (26x42x12-ish), and the location (MI), you are probably looking at a 75K-90K BTU heater.

So, you need enough cu/ft/hr to supply that.
Natural gas delivers about 1000 BTU per cu/ft per hr.
80,000/1000=80 cu/ft/hr of gas needed.

A 1" gas line can flow approx. 220 cu/ft/hr at 80 ft length, and less at longer lengths.
(charts available on internet)
So, a 1" line from your meter to the shop should be more than sufficient, providing you aren't going more than 150' or so.

If less than 100ft., a 3/4" line would be plenty.

Provided your existing service can support that much additional capacity.

Solid info - thank you!
Gives me a great starting point. I have approx. 110' +/- to run. I'm just now starting to poke around the forum to see what guys are using. Seems to be a mixed bag and I was wondering if I would just be better off to bury some conduit then run CSST inside of it.

 

[Scott r c]

Pipe pressure is important for sizing as well. Standard pressure is less than one pound, but some systems are 2 psi. I would not waste money on a conduit. Just run a poly gas service line. You can use compression fittings if you don't have access to proper tools. If you post up your pressure,total length, and btu load I can size it for you.

 

[brewchief]

If your on consumers energy for gas they will make up a poly gas line for you, or at least they were doing it around here.

CSST in conduit would be way more costly and is much less fun then it sounds, I've done a few 15-20' runs and wouldn't want to go much longer unless it was a large conduit with zero bends.

You could run a conduit and run poly gas line though it later but that won't save much in the short term and will cost more long term.

Length and load are needed for sizing, FWIW we won't run anything under 1", the cost difference is not much and most of our suppliers don't carry anything smaller in stock.

 

[InTheMitten]

Thanks for all the input guys! Seriously appreciate it so far.

I'm looking into going the poly gas line route and currently doing some figuring. Sent a message over to the guys at ReVerberRay in Detroit as I'm leaning toward a radiant overhead heater. We won't have the heater in there right out of the gate but I really only want to do trenching one time.

If I go poly it's looking like probably 1-1/4" or larger.

Brewchief - correct. We're consumers and I just tracked the number down to give them a call on their "assembled" piping to see what the cost is there.

 

[InTheMitten]

Pipe pressure is important for sizing as well. Standard pressure is less than one pound, but some systems are 2 psi. I would not waste money on a conduit. Just run a poly gas service line. You can use compression fittings if you don't have access to proper tools. If you post up your pressure,total length, and btu load I can size it for you.

Thanks Scott.
Not to sound naive but I'm not really sure how to determine pressure.. Total length is going to be approx. 110-112' from point a to point b and I am thinking with our building size it's probably going to be closer to 80k-100k on BTUs.

Again, no expert, just theories at this point as I await for feedback from heater manufacturers.

 

[CNGsaves]

Solid info - thank you!
Gives me a great starting point. I have approx. 110' +/- to run. I'm just now starting to poke around the forum to see what guys are using. Seems to be a mixed bag and I was wondering if I would just be better off to bury some conduit then run CSST inside of it.

No, No, No !!

You'll want the SAFEST and Longest-Lasting solution which is yellow plastic polyethlene pipe. My buried NG run is only 25 ft and I got 1" from Kansas City supplier for 55 cents a foot so your 110 ft would be less than $60 for the pipe at that price!! You may need 1 1/4" due to the long run. On each end you'll need risers that transition the plastic to steel above ground. Make sure you have a shutoff on each end of the run. A tracer wire will need buried with the yellow plastic pipe so it can be located later. Your trench needs to follow local codes which likely will be 18" minimum, and possible 30" depth. Then large black pipe steel above ground into building (like 1 1/4") so you'll plenty of flow if you decide to add any NG appliances to the garage later besides the hanging NG heater. For me, I'll have 2 big draws of NG at garage . . . hanging NG heater . . AND . . . Fuelmaker which is compressor for CNG (compressed natural gas) that will fill my cng tanks in bi-fuel vehicles!!

Northern Tool carries the Mr Heater brand and you might get a good off-season price if there are any still left in stock.

The buried yellow plastic pipe is standard practice that gas company is now installing for all residential and commercial NG service drops.

ATTACHMENT: Here is gas flow chart that previous GJ thread had attached. You'll want to Search and read prior GJ posts for "Buried Natural Gas Line" as this has been discussed many times before. Let us know how yours turns out.

 

[sands35]

Suggest contacting your local inspector. The consequences of doing a gas line wrong are not small. Likely you will need a permit anyway. In my area, the only thing that a home owner is not allowed to do is the actual hookups. I saved a lot of money digging the trench myself though.

 

[Scott r c]

Your area is probably under the 2009 International Fuel Gas Code. If so you can use a 1" line up to 125' for a maximum of 131,000 btu/hr. A 1.25" line would carry 269,000 btu/hr at the same distance.

 

[InTheMitten]

No, No, No !!

You'll want the SAFEST and Longest-Lasting solution which is yellow plastic polyethlene pipe. My buried NG run is only 25 ft and I got 1" from Kansas City supplier for 55 cents a foot so your 110 ft would be less than $60 for the pipe at that price!! You may need 1 1/4" due to the long run. On each end you'll need risers that transition the plastic to steel above ground. Make sure you have a shutoff on each end of the run. A tracer wire will need buried with the yellow plastic pipe so it can be located later. Your trench needs to follow local codes which likely will be 18" minimum, and possible 30" depth. Then large black pipe steel above ground into building (like 1 1/4") so you'll plenty of flow if you decide to add any NG appliances to the garage later besides the hanging NG heater. For me, I'll have 2 big draws of NG at garage . . . hanging NG heater . . AND . . . Fuelmaker which is compressor for CNG (compressed natural gas) that will fill my cng tanks in bi-fuel vehicles!!

Northern Tool carries the Mr Heater brand and you might get a good off-season price if there are any still left in stock.

The buried yellow plastic pipe is standard practice that gas company is now installing for all residential and commercial NG service drops.

ATTACHMENT: Here is gas flow chart that previous GJ thread had attached. You'll want to Search and read prior GJ posts for "Buried Natural Gas Line" as this has been discussed many times before. Let us know how yours turns out.

Great info - I've been able to find direct burial poly but only up to 1" and it's about $1.25 a foot. Any insights on the resource in KS?

 

[InTheMitten]

Your area is probably under the 2009 International Fuel Gas Code. If so you can use a 1" line up to 125' for a maximum of 131,000 btu/hr. A 1.25" line would carry 269,000 btu/hr at the same distance.

Thanks Scott.
I did check with a source out of Bloomingdale, MI (Fleetwood's) where we have gotten some HVAC items from previously. They told me 1" would flow 150' for a max of 150,000 btu/hr. So it sounds like the information is about right.

If I can source 1.25" I will drop that in, but no luck as of yet.

 

[10kredline]

go to www.keithspecialty.com . I got my yellow gas line from there, with all fittings needed. they're a great source and have very good customer service, they set me up with everything i needed, shipped to me.

 

[fstbusa]

http://hdpipecalc.com/

you can size poly pipe on there. Just need to know your load, pressure, and distance. Typical SDR rating is 11.

I work for a local utility as the gas and water engineer. 90% of our citywide system is poly pipe.

 

[InTheMitten]

go to www.keithspecialty.com . I got my yellow gas line from there, with all fittings needed. they're a great source and have very good customer service, they set me up with everything i needed, shipped to me.

Awesome! Thank you for your help.

 

[InTheMitten]

http://hdpipecalc.com/

you can size poly pipe on there. Just need to know your load, pressure, and distance. Typical SDR rating is 11.

I work for a local utility as the gas and water engineer. 90% of our citywide system is poly pipe.

Thank you! Couldn't get the site to work on a tablet so I'll have to try it again on the laptop later. Good notes from everyone for sure.

 

[Tre900]

No, No, No !!

You'll want the SAFEST and Longest-Lasting solution which is yellow plastic polyethlene pipe. My buried NG run is only 25 ft and I got 1" from Kansas City supplier for 55 cents a foot so your 110 ft would be less than $60 for the pipe at that price!! You may need 1 1/4" due to the long run. On each end you'll need risers that transition the plastic to steel above ground. Make sure you have a shutoff on each end of the run. A tracer wire will need buried with the yellow plastic pipe so it can be located later. Your trench needs to follow local codes which likely will be 18" minimum, and possible 30" depth. Then large black pipe steel above ground into building (like 1 1/4") so you'll plenty of flow if you decide to add any NG appliances to the garage later besides the hanging NG heater. For me, I'll have 2 big draws of NG at garage . . . hanging NG heater . . AND . . . Fuelmaker which is compressor for CNG (compressed natural gas) that will fill my cng tanks in bi-fuel vehicles!!

Northern Tool carries the Mr Heater brand and you might get a good off-season price if there are any still left in stock.

The buried yellow plastic pipe is standard practice that gas company is now installing for all residential and commercial NG service drops.

ATTACHMENT: Here is gas flow chart that previous GJ thread had attached. You'll want to Search and read prior GJ posts for "Buried Natural Gas Line" as this has been discussed many times before. Let us know how yours turns out.

I knew when I was doing this research that document would come in handly for some one! Thanks for digging it up and sharing it.

- I ended up going with Propane

 

[InTheMitten]

Thanks for everyone on the help.

I ended up getting 1" direct burial plus the proper ends that we need for each side. Looking forward to getting things in the ground.