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Why Do I Need 1000+ ft lbs in an Impact?

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Bull

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This is certainly a question bred of ignorance; I know you guys will be able to help me out.

A new Aircat or similar 1/2 impact is boasting over 1,000 ft lbs of torque, right? When on earth am I going to encounter a bolt that requires that much torque to come loose on a car? I am looking at a USA-made gun that apparently has about 600 ft lbs; is this thing really going to play Wiener Patrol when compared to the Armored Division guns busting out the big torque numbers? Rusty nuts will laugh at 600 ft. lbs?
 
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Rico.

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I am very far from an expert, but I believe impact wrenches are given 3 ratings

Working torque, maximum torque and ultimate torque


For the non PhD engineers among us, I would just go by the working torque to get
an idea of it's real world maximum.
 

redwrench60

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I get it, price is a consideration for all of us but get an impact with the biggest balls you can afford. As mentioned above extensions soak up torque and eventually you will run up on something it won't take loose, how often that happens is up to you.
 
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Bull

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I hadn't thought of the extensions and swivels issue.

I like that the Aircat/Nitrocats are assembled here, but I am looking at an older USA-made gun that is NOS.
 

dfreeman616

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i like my ingersol 2135 series, but when it won't do the job i've used the aircat the guy next to me has a few times and it does it better. take that for what it is.
 

Fedwrench

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but you won't like it when the Aircat loses power over time with use.:D

Honestly, I don't know who dreams up these impact wrench numbers.

Extensions don't drain power off of an impact wrench as long as they're in a straight line. Swivel sockets and angle changing attachments are a different story.

The strength of your impact is not only based on available PSI but also CFM being constant. Some impacts are more of an air hawg than others.

narrow air fittings can be a power robber too.

In the end, you're using an impact because you want power so to that end more is better. Just like when figuring demolition charges P is for plenty.:lol:

I think it's more important for the impact to be well balanced, be a natural extension of my hand, and not be so heavy, as to wear me out at the end of the day from lugging it around. To that end, I prefer IR's titanium series. :beer:
 

#1SomeGuy

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Rusted/seized bolts
Extensions/Universals/etc eating torque

Think of it this way, you can always turn a gun down when you don't need as much power...but you can't add power the gun isn't capable of. Besides, when things get stubborn good luck getting them out without an impact, breaker bars don't always fit.

My big gun is an IR 2135TiMax and I've run into a couple bolts already that don't just bang out right away...it did them yes but hammered all the way.
 
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Bull

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but you won't like it when the Aircat loses power over time with use.:D

Is this a problem with them?

I was looking at them because there is just no way I am going to drop over $200 for an impact when I'm just a hack. I do, however, want something better than a cheater bar which might slip off an result in me smashing the freak out of my hand.
 

firebox40dash5

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Extensions don't drain power off of an impact wrench as long as they're in a straight line. Swivel sockets and angle changing attachments are a different story.

Uhhh... yeah they definitely do. I've had a few times I've tried to use my 2135 with enough extension to get into a tight spot, and it wouldn't do squat. Stuck a swivel socket on my 2115 and wiggled it in extensionless, and bam, done. Extensions flex torsionally and absorb the impact... just like a torque stick. ;)

I've had my 2135 not get the job done enough times, I bit on a great deal on a like-new 2145... then spent what I saved getting that deal upgrading the air system in the shop. :rolleyes:
 

Ign

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It's nowhere near that simple Bull. The ratings are deceiving and are based on a particular bolt size. I'm guessing it's real small, like 3/8". Try torquing a 5/8" u-bolt on a truck axle and you'll find those guns will achieve *maybe* 120 ft lbs.

If you actually had a bolt torqued to 1000ft lbs - and that would have to be, what, a 2.5" bolt? - none of these guns would break it free.

I don't know exactly where the ratings come from but they're using some kind of "new math." If anyone doubts it, take a 5/8" bolt and run it down as tight as the gun will get it. Then put a beam torque wrench on it and see when it moves. If these things really put out that much torque they'd be more powerful than a new Duramax or Ford 6.7.
 

marinusdees

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To break stuff. Or to tighten your lug nuts so you can't get them loose on the side of the highway at 10pm in the pouring down rain. Any other questions? If you have a problem getting something loose, call me. 253 307 2416
 

SMKS

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A new Aircat or similar 1/2 impact is boasting over 1,000 ft lbs of torque, right? When on earth am I going to encounter a bolt that requires that much torque to come loose on a car?

1,000 ft-lbs allows you to round off or snap off fasteners in the fastest, most efficient manner. The name of the game is efficiency, whether that's assembling something or breaking something.

Of course, I'm just joking.
 

Murphy4570

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You want the most powerful impact you can get. The day when your impact can't get a bolt loose is the day you get angry, trust me. Might also be the day you get a 3/4" impact. :lol:
 

marinusdees

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Ps

I have a 3/4" and a 1" impact and I can break stuff. Sometimes loose. Guns this big need a 1/2" air hose for supply. Some times they just break s--t. Sometimes heat is better. Sometimes you need to start over.
 

Wakefield

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Is there in the real world a 1/2" drive square that won't twist off like a Twizzler when it sees 1000 ft. lbs. ? Seems like the drive square has to be the limiting factor whether it is in the head of a breaker bar or part of the anvil of an airgun. Everything else can be beefed up in size,but not that drive square section.
 
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CWP1616L

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I remember back in the day when 600 ft-lbs was the strongest impact you could get in 1/2 inch drive.
 

Gmonkee

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At the shop there is a 3/4" rated at 1200 and a 1" rated over 1500.
We use breaker bars and cheater pipes to breakdown hydraulics anyway because none of these are powerful enough. Ratings don't mean much if they can't get jobs done.

It takes more time to drag out hoses, get set up and then have to go get the breaker bar anyway so we usually skip the air entirely now.
 

zkling

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One thing that I didn't see mentioned is that impact "torque" is a bit different than torque from a breaker bar or the like. Impact being just that a high impulse torque over a very short period of time. Compared to constant torque from a breaker bar. The impact is helpful to break things loose, especially if rusted or other wise "frozen". Where as the breaker bar is more for raw torque power yet delicate enough to completely snap something off.

Impact wrench torque ratings can be pretty difficult to measure and compare between brands.

I like to think of it as pushing on a glass table compared to punching the table with your fist. Assuming the are delivering roughly the same force, which is more likely to shatter the table? The sudden impulse from the fist. Compared to a slow ramp up of force from just pushing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_wrench
 

trexdoink

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It makes me wonder how good a cheap 1000 is compared to a high quality 800. I used a craftsman 450lb for years and my new SO 810lb is like magic compared to that. I don't think I need a 1000 in a 1/2 drive, I think there is a limit. My 1" Ingersoll is rated at 1770lb. For the really tight stuff you need the big hammer bulk in a 3/4 or 1" more than a bazillion pounds of torque in a sissy 1/2 case. I do big truck work though so my opinion is different than the average user.
 

Garage5.9

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1196352_01_snap_on_mg725_1_2_drive_impact_640.jpg



mg325_10167978.jpg


I currently own the mg725 (top) and the mg325 (bottom). The way i see it don't settle for less even if you have to spend 500$ on a good gun buy it good once and it will serve you well for along time.
 

theknurl

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To break loose Honda harmonic balancer bolts.

how big is the bolt?

http://www.cncexpo.com/MetricBoltTorque.aspx

old VW axle nuts are 36mm torqued to 219lbft....

i can break them by tightening them with my Model 750 Swench Wrench

check out a Model 1500:bowdown:

7,000 lbft not a typo 7,000lbft
http://www.powerhawk.com/products_swench.html

originally made by Curtiss Wright they are accurate enough to torque WITH

i have a Model 625-50 and 750

Swench Wrench......"The cure for the breaker bar":thumbup::thumbup:


:beer:
 

JJThrasher

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Find a bolt that was torqued close to 200 ft-lbs in a factory 20 years ago that has lived its whole life in the midwest and you'll never ask that question again.

I would consider spending more than $200 though. Plenty of good impacts can be had for under $300.

A couple thoughts though.
Impact wrenches usually have a reverse bias, so checking how much it can tighten a fastener doesn't show how much torque it can produce to loosen one.
A good extension in a straight line shouldn't lose any torque or flex. If your extension does, you should get a better one.
As sort of mentioned, manufactures use different methods of rating the torque. The earlier linked to Wiki article briefly discusses this.
Aircats are junk. Worse than HF.
 

TwoInch

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all extensions lose torque when used on an impact, period. extensions used on breaker bars or torque wrenches do not.

it is no different than a torque stick. the only difference is that the "torque stick" is designed to lose a certain amount. your regular extensions depending on length, design, and material, will transfer different amounts of torque.

put that same torque stick(or extension) on your torque wrench, and absolutely none of the torque will be lost.
 

wedge40

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Ever work on Farm equipment?
I've got a bush hog that the Nuts are torqued to 650 ft-lbs, add a little rust and some time. 1000ft-lbs might work.

Wedge
 
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volvo92906

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Kinda like wedge says... You need to open up and realize more than weekend warrior automotive guys use these impacts. Most of the stuff we encounter has 300+ pounds of torque (That means 300 and up). Start getting into axle parts and youre looking at around 1400 pounds...
 
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Bull

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Kinda like wedge says... You need to open up and realize more than weekend warrior automotive guys use these impacts. Most of the stuff we encounter has 300+ pounds of torque (That means 300 and up). Start getting into axle parts and youre looking at around 1400 pounds...

Yeah, but I didn't ask why ANYONE needed that much, just why I as a shmoe working on regular rusty cars would need that much. I understand that if someone is working on massive machinery there will be big torque numbers involved.

I think that the balancer bolt on an old Pontiac might be torqued to 150 ft lbs or so.

But I do get the logic of getting the most powerful gun you can for the money you have; that makes sense to me.

The Aircats seem to be oddly divisive; some folks report loving them and their incredible power and others say they are worse than Harbor Freight! That's quite a range.
 

Ign

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Yeah, but I didn't ask why ANYONE needed that much, just why I as a shmoe working on regular rusty cars would need that much. I understand that if someone is working on massive machinery there will be big torque numbers involved.

I think that the balancer bolt on an old Pontiac might be torqued to 150 ft lbs or so.

But I do get the logic of getting the most powerful gun you can for the money you have; that makes sense to me.

Again, because there are so many variables. Diameter of the fastener and corrosion are just two things that combine with the length of the fastener to increase drag. Take a 5/8" fastener, give it a long nut like aftermarket u-bolts have (a bolt inserted deeply into something like a crankshaft would be the same principle), then throw in some corrosion and that fastener which was torqued to 150ft lbs may take 900 ft lbs to initially break free. The larger and longer the fastener, the more surface area there is to fight you, kinda like how increasing swept area on disc brakes makes for more braking power.

But again, the ratings are not at all accurate IMO - - for real world, practical use. Thus, I believe it's very important you remember the ratings just give you a reference, but you have to get a feel for what that means within that scale. If I told you something was 100 decibels, but you had never even heard of decibels much less any sound at a given decibel level, would that mean anything to you?? In this case it's deceiving because they name their scale "foot lbs" and we think we know that means. Think of it more like 1000 draknars - - it's meaningless until you get some experience with a few different guns and note what draknar rating they give it.

And yes, the point of buying quality over ratings is an excellent one. Even if we assume the ratings are accurate (they're not), there are still subtle differences in how power is applied that can make a HUGE difference. Ever driven two cars and found you actually felt the one with a lesser hp rating actually felt more zippy? Or diesel trucks and found the one with less torque on paper actually seemed to suit your towing needs better? Same principle. One number on paper is good for bench racing (and guys use it for that all the time) but means little in the real world. The wiki article briefly alludes to that.

Finally, if you took a poll, I bet 90% of people are not running their guns at the regulated 90psi. But one guy may have his system regulated at 120 while another just runs wide open at 175. Just another variable when guys are bench racing.
 

metalhead212121

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I skimmed over this thread.... Once in a while you're gonna come across something that your "regular" impact gun won't break free. Thats when its time to break out the 1,000 ft lb gun. Ive seen too many people use high torque monster impact guns for everyday use and down the road they start to **** out. Granted Im sure some guys can say that guns crapping out is planned obsolescence.... Ive had the same IR gun for years and years.. its seen daily use for years and years and now its just used on weekends. If I had money to burn Id by a 1000 ft lb gun for "emergencys."
 

signcrafter

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I think that the balancer bolt on an old Pontiac might be torqued to 150 ft lbs or so.

That torque value is probably for installing that bolt. Now let it sit for 10 years while driving around in the rustbelt and it takes much more torque to get that bolt out. The average home owner doesn't need 1000 pounds of torque very often but it sure is nice to have it when needed. But make sure those torque ratings are apples to apples and not apples to oranges.
 

SuzukiGS750EZ

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It depends on your air supply and fittings. One day in the shop one of the guys was hammering away at a rusted on, salted on lug nut on a ford dualy, his snap on gun (the newer 1/2" "big boy") wouldn't take it off, so He asked to use my Ingersoll 2135 timax. That zipped it right off. I think snap on sprinkles glitter on their numbers, they're loud and obnoxious, but my quiet ti max got the job done. Try and find a gun with higher rating. What gun was it you saw the high rating on? I would also suggest, I they make it for your choice of gun, a boot. It's saved my gun damage.
 

Eslader

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Yeah, but I didn't ask why ANYONE needed that much, just why I as a shmoe working on regular rusty cars would need that much.

I used to think the same thing, so I bought a cheap little 300 ft/lb gun. Then I had to remove the crankshaft pulley bolt on my old CRX. 30 minutes banging on it with the gun and swearing without ever budging it, and I saw things in a whole new light. ;)
 

abvw

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I once had to use the Honda Odyssey's weight on a 5' cheater to cracks the crank pulley bolt loose. My 2135Ti on 120psi occasionally will struggle against a Civic crank pulley, I even stopped trying against the V6s.
 
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