Drill presses. Vintage or more modern?

[ajchien]

I've got a benchtop 3 speed drill press, and I use it so much more than I ever thought. The more I use it, the more there were days that I wish I had a floor standing press. It also only goes down to 600 ish rpm, I wish it had a speed down in the 300-400's.

Of course, I love the antique/vintage craftsman 150 or the walker tuners and rockwell deltas. Many of them seem to come only with 3-5 speeds.

More modern drill presses seem to have more speeds, and some small conveniences, like a hand crank for the table, a light, etc....

I like the older presses a lot. Im wary of having only 4 speeds. I really just want to have a press that works and is efficient to run. Are the more modern drill presses better? Or are these conveniences that I mentioned above just features I really don't need?

 

[softailgarage]

I've got a '42 Craftsman bench DP. It's old, beat up...really beat up. I love the 50's Craftsman "Power Bronze" 150's. I'd like to keep a small modern bench press for intricate work, electronics and such. Features are nice but, you dont need them. So, you really need 2 drill presses in the shop

 

[justanengineer]

Old drills had "features" as necessary, sometimes as options. For the light duty drills with a small table hanging off the column, there really isnt need for a lifting/lowering mechanism and personally I find them a PITA vs just sliding the table up/down manually. As for the speeds, depending on what youre doing with it you might not want/need them. Many of those old drills werent meant to drill much metal, mostly wood, hence the few speeds. If you look around tho, you should be able to find a higher end older drill with those features and more.

Personally, the #1 reason to buy an older drill is quality, then price, then to get a morse tapered spindle.

 

[Outlawmws]

I'd opt for the older DP (And did), for build quality, but the features you are asking about are legitimate factors:

Speeds:

If you are drilling steels and anything over say 1/4" or so, you need the 12-16 speed DP (with an intermediate pulley set, variable speed or you can go like I did and convert to a treadmill motor. another more expensive option is to fins a 3 phase motor and buy a VFD) to get slow enough.

Table lift:

A light table isn't a big deal to move manually; a light table with a bigger DP vise IS a big deal to move manually... Some vintage DP's came with a lift, some it was optional. Then if you happen to have some disability or injury, you may need the lift anyway...

Rotating table:

I like these, and prefer it IF you have a good table lift and a heavy vise. I did on my old DP, and it allowed me to clamp the part to be drilled and the unlock the table and spin it and rotate it on the column (The crank mechanize keeps the table for falling...) to position the drill over the hole. Or you can use a flat (Production) table, clamp on an X/Y table/DP vise and use the X/Y to position.

Those are your primary options/considerations in a nutshell

 

[Davefr]

I've had some of these old vintage drill presses and couldn't get rid of them fast enough because they're almost unusable or a PIA.

Here's why:

1. Most (but not all of them) have a useless speed range. For large (ie 1/2") holes in ferrous metals you need to get down to around 250 RPM. For small holes in non ferrous you need to be up 3500 RPM. Most of these old drill presses are only 4 speeds which is useless for a lot of metal work.

2. For me, rack and pinion table elevation is an absolute must have feature. I'm constantly tweaking table elevation to get the bit as close to the work as possible. (that gives you more precision) Try making lots of small table elevation tweaks without that feature and it'll drive you nuts.

3. Most older drill presses have fixed tables. I want a table that can be rotated vertical. I don't do this too often but sometimes you need to work in the end of long piece of stock and this feature is also a "must have".

4. I also want a table with T slots for clamping. This is hard to find in some of the older machines

5. Parts for some of these old machines are "unobtainium".

If you can find all this in an old machine go for it. (ex: Clausing, Powermatic). However I think the sweet spot for drill presses is name brands produced closer to the 70's/80's era. (that's before most of them went to China but these features started to become more common.)

 

[Packard V8]

Every GJer has a different price and performance envelope requirement for a DP. Some do a lot of steel fabrication, some seldom-to-never. Some do woodworking; some don't. Some will pay serious money for a true industrial DP, some just can't.

FWIW, I've been using Delta DPs for forty years now with success. At present, I have five of them and never paid more than $100. Some did need a bit of TLC, but all cleaned up nicely. Most of them have tables which can be rotated vertically. Yes, the intermediate pulley with gives a wider speed range is very nice to have.

No, the manual table adjustment on a 14" DP isn't a deal breaker for me; 17" and larger, yes. Your opinions and results may vary.

Maybe, tell us what new DP is available for less than $150, has better quality than the old USA DPs, has a crank-adjust table with T-slots, 250-3500 RPM speed range and readily available reasonably priced parts?

jack vines

 

[ddawg16]

I have a table top DP with an xy table. It's one of those items that once you have you wonder how you got by without it. One of the big advantages...I don't worry as much if my boys use it. The can clamp things down. Makes it a bit safer

But I won't mind having an old vintage floor unit set up with the lift table aligned with the rip fence of my radial arm saw.

 

[zkling]

I personally prefer the older stuff. Why? To me it is a much better quality at a much lower price than I could otherwise afford. I have <$100 into my 1940's 17" delta floor model. Beast of a machine.

Back when those presses were produced the manufacture typically offered multiple variants of the same press. One for wood (higher speed range), one for metal (lower speed range). A standard floor drill press is really only a 1/2" twist drill in metal machine which equates to ~ 400-500rpm.

From what I have seen, the drill press is by far the most mis understood machine in the home shop. Folks quoting ~60rpm and what not for <0.5" holes in steel.


EDIT. One thing to add. I would much rather have a higher speed quality heavy drill press, than a lower speed, light weight, rickety drill press. I always laugh when you see the little Ryobi and the like bench drills that have <200RPM. Just marketing appealing to people that THINK they need a low speed.

 

[Davefr]

Every GJer has a different price and performance envelope requirement for a DP. Some do a lot of steel fabrication, some seldom-to-never. Some do woodworking; some don't. Some will pay serious money for a true industrial DP, some just can't.

I couldn't agree more!!

Maybe, tell us what new DP is available for less than $150, has better quality than the old USA DPs, has a crank-adjust table with T-slots, 250-3500 RPM speed range and readily available reasonably priced parts?

I never said you could have all of that in a new $150 DP. My only point was that the "sweet spot" for used DP is somewhere past the primitive 4 spd./fixed table machines but before the Chinese models. (ex: quality name brands from the 70's/80's like JET, Rockwell, Delta)

The OP asked vintage vs modern. I say somewhere in between based on my experience and I've had both.

 

[ajchien]

The OP asked vintage vs modern. I say somewhere in between based on my experience and I've had both.

Thanks, Yeah.

What I mean by Vintage is something in the 30-50's era. These have some character ans history.... What I mean by Modern is something in the 70-80's. They dont look or feel special, but they seem to certainly have more options and conveniences.... I really dont think Im in the market for a year 2013 press.

 

[justanengineer]

Im partial to camelback drills myself, but to each their own. I also enjoy "features" that are a bit uncommon on drills today - power feeds and morse tapers. Personally, Ive never noticed a difference in features available by era but I have noticed features available by manufacturer and application. Most of the small vintage drills are like the small drills today - meant for limited use woodworking in the home shop, so you really need to make sure youre comparing apples to apples.

 

[Packard V8]

Modern is something in the 70-80's. They dont look or feel special, but they seem to certainly have more options and conveniences....

Just for the sake of discussion, what options and conveniences became available only in the '70s-80s?

The ribbed belt drive is certainly easier to change speeds than the V-belt, so I'd vote for that one, but what else?

jack vines

 

[DHS]

Im partial to camelback drills myself, but to each their own. I also enjoy "features" that are a bit uncommon on drills today - power feeds and morse tapers. Personally, Ive never noticed a difference in features available by era but I have noticed features available by manufacturer and application. Most of the small vintage drills are like the small drills today - meant for limited use woodworking in the home shop, so you really need to make sure youre comparing apples to apples.

Thank You, I have the same drill press (I think). Mine is a Sibley and Ware.


I do things in my shed because I enjoy it, I enjoy it a little more using vintage equipment and hand tools.

 

[Davefr]

Just for the sake of discussion, what options and conveniences became available only in the '70s-80s?

The ribbed belt drive is certainly easier to change speeds than the V-belt, so I'd vote for that one, but what else?

jack vines

I'll repeat.

Features such as vertical adjustable table tilt, rack and pinion table elevation, wide speed range, number of speed options, table clamping options, mainstream arbor/chuck tapers, etc, etc. became much more widely avail. after the 40's/50's.

Were they avail. in earlier drill presses - yes, but extremely limited.

They key is to get these mainstream features but avoid the current crop of low end **** from China.

 

[zkling]

Or are these conveniences that I mentioned above just features I really don't need?

You want the ultimate? Get an old Clausing or powermatic 15" or even 20" with variable speed drive system. Wire it to a dual rpm motor and you should be able to drill nearly everything a home shop would come across. Benefit of having the speed range at your fingertips. Just watch out when purchasing one, if the VS drive system gets worn Clausing and Powermatic both think those parts are made of gold.

Clausing are probably the best floor drill press out there. IMHO. Next step up would be a milling machine.

I'll repeat.

Features such as vertical adjustable table tilt, rack and pinion table elevation, wide speed range, number of speed options, table clamping options, mainstream arbor/chuck tapers, etc, etc. became much more widely avail. after the 40's/50's.

My 1940 Delta 17" has all of those $100 and it will more than likely out live me.

 

[thebeekeeper1]

A few weeks ago I stumbled across a good condition old Rockwell 15 press. It came with a mounted light, mounted index drill set, Cutler-Hammer foot switch, and a nice vice--for $75. It needs a bit of a refurbish as it has stood in an unheated garage for five years since the owner passed away, but it's sound and tight. I'm happy with it.

 

[tool_scrounge]

For 14" or 15" table tops, I find a table lifting mechanism nice but not a big deal. For 17" you really need it.

As a kid I used a Craftsman 150 and left it on the lowest speed for everything. But years later I picked up an as-new Craftsman 150 and added a variable speed DC motor. It is the best of all worlds.

For Rockwell Delta I like the late 1960's or early 1970's vintage drill presses before the "cost cutting" started. The Rockwell Delta 15" 6+6 (6" of quill travel, 6 speeds) is a really nice drill press with good low speed.

The 5 speed 15" Buffalo Forge drill presses are really nice, especially with the 1140 rpm motor.

 

[jtbinvalrico]

It takes some time and patience to pull one all together, but old iron can be more than sufficient to meet your needs. 1942 Cman:

1) Speed range: 200 to 10,000 rpm
2) Foot pedal switch
3) Forward / reverse at the switch
4) Geared table lift
5)......smooth as butter.



Admittedly, it would take a very large sum to cause me to part with this one. If you need these features pronto......you do what you have to do. Otherwise, you build up an oldie like this and pay dearly for certain parts. That said, I'm into this one for about $350. I doubt I could find something modern for $350 that would equal it.

 

[jakemac]

Sweeeeeet !!

 

[ajchien]

It takes some time and patience to pull one all together, but old iron can be more than sufficient to meet your needs. 1942 Cman:

1) Speed range: 200 to 10,000 rpm
2) Foot pedal switch
3) Forward / reverse at the switch
4) Geared table lift
5)......smooth as butter.



Admittedly, it would take a very large sum to cause me to part with this one. If you need these features pronto......you do what you have to do. Otherwise, you build up an oldie like this and pay dearly for certain parts. That said, I'm into this one for about $350. I doubt I could find something modern for $350 that would equal it.

Holy cow. And you have a craftsman 150 right next to the 1940's drill press too!

 

[ajchien]

I'll repeat.

Features such as vertical adjustable table tilt, rack and pinion table elevation, wide speed range, number of speed options, table clamping options, mainstream arbor/chuck tapers, etc, etc. became much more widely avail. after the 40's/50's.

Were they avail. in earlier drill presses - yes, but extremely limited.

They key is to get these mainstream features but avoid the current crop of low end **** from China.

About what year did a lot of manufacturers start to go overseas with production ? And what is it about the COO that makes a difference? Is it the use of cheaper steel? More plastic? Poor QC?

 

[jtbinvalrico]

Plenty of 150's out there. Easily had in the $100 to $150 range. That number may or may not include features such as the Vari-Slo unit. You've hit the jackpot if you find one of these with an intact, functional Vari-Slo on it. Typically, sellers have no idea, or don't care, what they have. I had to buy two DPs with inoperative Vari-Slo's to put together a single unit. I'm probably into this DP for about $300. Of course, that doesn't include the cost of extensive rebuilding (my time and patience). I'd pay $250-300 just for an operational Vari-Slo unit......that's the market for them. Again, the best way to get them is to buy a complete DP that already has one on it; hopefully you'll find one that hasn't been abused and is need of repair.

It's not as smooth as the 1942, but it's light years ahead of what's available today. That said, I don't fault anyone who shells out some coin for a modern DP with the features he needs. Not everyone has the time to rebuild one or two of them. I've set this one up for woodworking:

 

[R W]

Have an old flatbelt drive, pedastal drill, slowest speed is aprox 128 RPM, have drilled up to 1.1/4" holes with it. Table height is adjustable.
Have no intention of going to a later model.

 

[Davefr]

It takes some time and patience to pull one all together, but old iron can be more than sufficient to meet your needs. 1942 Cman:

1) Speed range: 200 to 10,000 rpm
2) Foot pedal switch
3) Forward / reverse at the switch
4) Geared table lift
5)......smooth as butter.





Admittedly, it would take a very large sum to cause me to part with this one. If you need these features pronto......you do what you have to do. Otherwise, you build up an oldie like this and pay dearly for certain parts. That said, I'm into this one for about $350. I doubt I could find something modern for $350 that would equal it.

Nice job on that machine!!!

 

[Jim C.]

I'd go "old school" all the way! Some of the best woodworking and metalworking machines ever made were manufactured in the USA pre-1965. I like the old Delta machines the best from the 1940s and 1950s. I have a 1959 Delta 32" radial DP and recently bought a 1951 Delta 17" DP. Those machines were made to last and they work great! With a little know how, a good set of SAE tools, and some patience finding the right machine, you could have a great DP for just a few hundred dollars at most. There may be a little mechanical rehab (new bearings, etc.) involved, but well worth the effort. Depending on the brand purchased, parts are still mostly available, and there are websites full of people who know EVERYTHING there is to know about these old machines. They're willing to share their collective knowledge for free. I'd go "old school" if you have the luxury of time in finding an older DP.

Jim C.

 

[Davefr]

About what year did a lot of manufacturers start to go overseas with production ? And what is it about the COO that makes a difference? Is it the use of cheaper steel? More plastic? Poor QC?

It was around the late 70's/80's and started with Taiwan. Some of the name brand Taiwan DP's were as good and often better then USA from the same era. (ex: early JET JDP-17's)

Things really took a hit when DP production moved to China in the 90's:
1. smaller course grain iron castings = weaker/more vibration
2. poor quality "no name" chucks = runout
3. questionable motors
4. Warped/thin/rough table surfaces
5. poor quality control/fit and finish/assembly
6. Plastic parts that would easily break off

 

[ajchien]

I'd go "old school" all the way! Some of the best woodworking and metalworking machines ever made were manufactured in the USA pre-1965. I like the old Delta machines the best from the 1940s and 1950s. I have a 1959 Delta 32" radial DP and recently bought a 1951 Delta 17" DP. Those machines were made to last and they work great! With a little know how, a good set of SAE tools, and some patience finding the right machine, you could have a great DP for just a few hundred dollars at most. There may be a little mechanical rehab (new bearings, etc.) involved, but well worth the effort. Depending on the brand purchased, parts are still mostly available, and there are websites full of people who know EVERYTHING there is to know about these old machines. They're willing to share their collective knowledge for free. I'd go "old school" if you have the luxury of time in finding an older DP.

Jim C.

Link to websites please?

 

[Jim C.]

Link to websites please?

Try: www.owwm.com

Or try: www.vintagemachinery.org

 

[ajchien]

Well, okay. I thought I'd give you guys some followup.

About 2 weeks ago I looked at an older Craftman drill press, similar to the 1940's press posted above. It had so much character and promise. The amount of rust was a bit daunting. The table was frozen to the column. There was about 7 thousandths of run out, and the return spring was weak. Could I fix all these issues? Probably. Did I have the time or interest? I looked over the press for almost 30 minutes. The seller probably thought I was nuts. I realized it wasn't for me. Guy wanted $100. Should I be disassembling it and sandblasting the rust? Smack the table loose from the column? Did the returns spring just need an adjustment, or did it need replacement? How about the runout? Just adjusting? A new chuck? I didnt have the heart or interest to do a restoration.

Two days ago I found an 80's press. 13" floor standing craftsman, 5 speeds, lowest is 400rpm and up to 2800. That's probably good enough for me to take on a 1/2" hole in metal as well as use hole saws. Compromises I made? I guess its only 5 speed. It's interesting because the motor says made in USA yet the press is made in Taiwan. Also, the cover to the pulleys (which is cracked in one place where it looks lkke it might have fallen over) and the on off switch is plastic. But hey, it was $75 and I'm making holes the day after I got it.