Idealarc DC 250 breaker size

[land308]

Hello I am looking for some guidance hooking up a used welder I purchased, up to this point I only had a small MIG setup but I got a chance to upgrade and purchased a DC-250 from a school auction. I have the manual and I am unsure what the superlag fuse translates into as far as the breaker size.

My service is 220 and I figured i would need a 100 amp breaker with #6 wire based on the table but i am not 100 % sure. i upsized to a 100 amp breaker because that is the size they had at the store and i figured it wouldn't matter. I believe I will also need a seperate means to disconnect the unit other than the breaker and that it should be sized at 100 amps also? This is going in a home shop

Thanks,
Rudy

 

[Socophreak]

Are you sure your service is not 240v? Two hots both 120 to ground and 240 across? May be a little bit lower but doesn't make too much of a difference. If its in a home I am willing to bet money you have 240 not 220 or 208.

You'll need 8 gauge and 90a breaker if that's the case. You'll need to size the wire accordingly if you have a long run of wire. If you already bought the 6ga wire it'll work just fine.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Does the welder have a cord and plug on it?

 

[land308]

Wyliesdiesel, The welder doesn't have a plug it looks like it was hardwired previously

Socophreak, yes it's in a home, I already have the 100 amp breaker but not the disconnect or the wire yet my main concern was that a 100 amp breaker could take the place of a 90amp super lag fuse safely

thanks
Rudy

 

[nehog]

Table/figure says 8 AWG, with a 90 amp breaker.

You have 240 volt service. There is no 220 volt service in the US, only 208 (three phase) and 240 (single phase.)

 

[Modifieddriver]

Table/figure says 8 AWG, with a 90 amp breaker.

You have 240 volt service. There is no 220 volt service in the US, only 208 (three phase) and 240 (single phase.)

Not to dispute your post, because I'm not.

Please answer this question.

Why does his manual list 208/60, 230/60 and 460/60?

I can see that the 208/60 might be three-phase, but I'm not sure. But based upon 120v, 240v and 440v What are the other two?

 

[lametec]

230V is old standard. It used to be we had 110V, 220V and 440V. Then is was 115V, 230V and 460V. Now it's 120V, 240V and 480V.

I'm not sure if 208V has changed over the years. And yes, 208V is 3-phase.

 

[land308]

All,
thanks for all the help sorry for using the incorrect voltage, now off to buy a disconnect so i can get this thing hooked up and running..

 

[Modifieddriver]

230V is old standard. It used to be we had 110V, 220V and 440V. Then is was 115V, 230V and 460V. Now it's 120V, 240V and 480V.

I'm not sure if 208V has changed over the years. And yes, 208V is 3-phase.

Thanks for the info.

I guess electricians aren't updated. Three outa' four I had out here referred to my power as 220V.

 

[nehog]

...
Why does his manual list 208/60, 230/60 and 460/60?
...

Years ago we had a standard of 115/230 volts in many areas. Europe still uses 230 volts. Though we changed the grid specifications, some things, (motors especially) remained rated at 230 volts. Technically one is feeding a device rated at 230 volts 240 volts, however that ten volt difference is not significant.

(Once upon a time, the US had the following standards: 110 volts, 115 volts, 117 volts, and 120 volts, but this was before the national power grid(s). Oh, there are three power grids in the US: East, West and Texas.

 

[zkling]

Really you should be fine on a 50amp breaker with a NEMA 6-50R and 6-50P and proper wiring

Unless you plan on topping out that machine, which is kinda unlikely at home. My syncro 250 lists a 98amp or something like that amp draw on 230v, yet I run it fine on a 50amp breaker.

It's good that you are taking the proper steps to run a 100amp breaker and the appropriate wire and disconnect. Although a bit overkill.

Does your machine have the PFC's in it? If so you may want to remove them, especially for at home use.

Thanks for the info.

I guess electricians aren't updated. Three outa' four I had out here referred to my power as 220V.

Yea I think people throw around the term 110/120 and 220v. Just seems to roll off the tongue easier than 120 and 240. I know I am guilty of that myself.

 

[land308]

zkling,

"Does your machine have the PFC's in it? If so you may want to remove them, especially for at home use."




I am not sure what PFC stands for so I don't know

 

[zkling]

zkling,

"Does your machine have the PFC's in it? If so you may want to remove them, especially for at home use."




I am not sure what PFC stands for so I don't know

Sorry, I should have elaborated. "PFC" stands for Power Factor Correction Caps. They installed them in the older high amp draw machines. They reduce top end running current, but drastically increase idle current. They were popular in factories and the like where a machine like yours would be run for hours on end each day at a high amp setting.

They **** for at home use, because they cause the idle (machine just sitting there, power on) to be MUCH higher than needed, therefore causing lower amp breakers to trip.

You will probably have to take the cover off to look for them. Which would be a good idea anyway, take the cover off the machine and gently clean it out with dry compressed air. Number one killer of welders is dirt/metal dust build up. Obviously make sure the machine is unplugged when doing this.

Those older idelarcs are good machines. Dang near bullet proof. Is yours one of the square boxes or the older rounded top box?

 

[land308]

zkling, thanks for explaning, my machine is a square top with a wire feeder on top, so I should look for a bank of capaciters when I remove the cover, I don't remember the manual mentioning PFC's but like you said it will be a good idea to remove the cover and give it a good once over, coming out of a school who knows how much preventive maintaince was done on it.

 

[zkling]

zkling, thanks for explaning, my machine is a square top with a wire feeder on top, so I should look for a bank of capaciters when I remove the cover, I don't remember the manual mentioning PFC's but like you said it will be a good idea to remove the cover and give it a good once over, coming out of a school who knows how much preventive maintaince was done on it.

O shoot, I'm sorry, I thought you had a different version of the Idealarc DC 250, Lincoln used the term Idealarc for a lot of different welders, primarily tig/stick machines. I didn't realize you had the mig power source, commonly refereed to as the "DC-250".

In that case you are correct, I don't think there were PFC's in those units. What wire feeder does it have with it. Just a heads up. Those DC-250 power sources aren't very popular and have a pretty low value, so I would not put any much if any money into it. Older lincoln mig power sources seem to age very fast.

Also if that is the machine you have, you will be more than adequate on a 50amp breaker. 100amp hardwire is overkill for that machine on 2xxV.

What all did it come with besides the feeder? Did you get a tig torch with it as well? Can you post a pic of the unit?

 

[skyking]

I use a 50 on my lincoln 225

 

[land308]

Zkling,
It has a LN7 feeder and it came with two guns, the manual says you can scratch start Tig with it but I have never Tig welded before and i just got it primarliy for the increased power of the Mig and i wanted to try stick welding also. I didn't realize that these units wern't very durable or popular I hope i don't have any problems thanks for your help

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Not to dispute your post, because I'm not.

Please answer this question.

Why does his manual list 208/60, 230/60 and 460/60?

I can see that the 208/60 might be three-phase, but I'm not sure. But based upon 120v, 240v and 440v What are the other two?

208v IS 3 phase but 208v single phase can also be derived from a 3 phase 208Y/120v service by using only 2 legs...

230V is old standard. It used to be we had 110V, 220V and 440V. Then is was 115V, 230V and 460V. Now it's 120V, 240V and 480V.

I'm not sure if 208V has changed over the years. And yes, 208V is 3-phase.

Motors are still rated at 115v, 200v, 230v,(or 200v-230v), 460v, etc....and yes, 208v is still the same nominal voltage for a 208y/120v service...

 

[zkling]

Zkling,
It has a LN7 feeder and it came with two guns, the manual says you can scratch start Tig with it but I have never Tig welded before and i just got it primarliy for the increased power of the Mig and i wanted to try stick welding also. I didn't realize that these units wern't very durable or popular I hope i don't have any problems thanks for your help

Mind if I ask what it set you back? Yea it was designed as a mig powersource, but can DC tig and stick weld as well, not exceptionally, but it can.

It's not so much that it isn't durable, jut for some reason older migs, especially lincoln units seem to have little used market value. They typically were workhorses, but if they do need to be repaired, the cost almost always exceeds the value of the machine. Just a heads up.

 

[Norcal]

208v IS 3 phase but 208v single phase can also be derived from a 3 phase 208Y/120v service by using only 2 legs...



Motors are still rated at 115v, 230v, 460v....and 208v is still the same![/QUOTE]


200V is the rated voltage for 208V motors now. Example 115/200-230V or 200-230/460V. Air conditioning equipment seems to still be 208-230V rated.

Rockwell, when they still owned Delta, used 200V single voltage motors on their machines in the '70's. (I have a couple of former school machines, HD shaper, & a 7" grinder w/ 200V 3Ø motors.)

 

[wyliesdiesels]

208v IS 3 phase but 208v single phase can also be derived from a 3 phase 208Y/120v service by using only 2 legs...



Motors are still rated at 115v, 230v, 460v....and 208v is still the same![/QUOTE]


200V is the rated voltage for 208V motors now. Example 115/200-230V or 200-230/460V. Air conditioning equipment seems to still be 208-230V rated.

Rockwell, when they still owned Delta, used 200V single voltage motors on their machines in the '70's. (I have a couple of former school machines, HD shaper, & a 7" grinder w/ 200V 3Ø motors.)

Yeah, I know that but the way I worded my comment wasnt clear. I forgot to put 200v in my list of motor ratings. The last part about 208v was in response to lametec's uncertainty about whether 208v is still the same nominal voltage for a 208y/120v system. I will edit my post...

 

[land308]

zkling wrote

Mind if I ask what it set you back? Yea it was designed as a mig powersource, but can DC tig and stick weld as well, not exceptionally, but it can.

It's not so much that it isn't durable, jut for some reason older migs, especially lincoln units seem to have little used market value. They typically were workhorses, but if they do need to be repaired, the cost almost always exceeds the value of the machine. Just a heads up.

I paid 425.00 for it, i already have the 100 amp breaker so may as well as use it unless i can find my receipt

thanks for the help

 

[zkling]

zkling wrote

I paid 425.00 for it, i already have the 100 amp breaker so may as well as use it unless i can find my receipt

thanks for the help

Ah.. heck for that you basically bought two guns, a feeder and got a free power source thrown in.