Pimp screwdrivers

[LoneGunman]

I think I "need" a set of these. Merkava, I think these would look right at home in your tool chest

Hell, the price is great also.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001D2OEJM/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Merkava_4]

Are they really made in Switzerland?

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Yes.

+ 10 Characters

 

[Merkava_4]

It used to be that Swiss products were extremely expensive over here; the government must've taken the import tariffs off or something.

 

[eschoendorff]

Yeah, now I can finally almost afford some!

 

[Bolster]

Why gold plated? How does that help drive a screw?

 

[bchee]

That's the brand Stuey likes. Price I see is $37.25 shipped free.

 

[rsanter]

gold is the best electrical conductor
there will be less resistence when you touch a 'hot' wire

bob

 

[eschoendorff]

gold is the best electrical conductor
there will be less resistence when you touch a 'hot' wire

bob

So only clinically depressed suicide candidates should buy these?

 

[Bolster]

So only clinically depressed suicide candidates should buy these?

My question exactly ... under what circumstances do I want a super conducting screwdriver?

Perhaps I'm a fool, but I've been putting my money toward Wihas that DON'T conduct...

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Another proud WiHa's owner....

Adam

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Why gold plated? How does that help drive a screw?

It makes them feel special.

 

[LoneGunman]

gold is the best electrical conductor
there will be less resistence when you touch a 'hot' wire

bob

"My question exactly ... under what circumstances do I want a super conducting screwdriver?

Perhaps I'm a fool, but I've been putting my money toward Wihas that DON'T conduct... "

LOL "super conductive", try this, place the screwdriver tip of a regular old chrome plated screwdriver on the set screw of a 480v breaker, then ground the shaft of that screwdriver to the enclosure, after the ensuing arc flash disintegrates your screwdriver and quote possibly burns you severely, try the same test with a gold plated screwdriver. Let me know if you could tell the difference in the severity of the arc flash.

Why are you buying insulated drivers? Do you have a use for them or are you buying them because you MAY use one in a year and because you just want them?

I use Wiha insulated drivers daily on voltages you won't find in a house, yup they are good drivers, PB also makes outstanding insulated drivers.

The gold plated drivers are the same price as chrome plated so why use chrome plated drivers, in fact why use any chrome plated tools and go to all industrial finish tools? Because they are pretty and clean up easily, I really don't care what you or anyone buys but to say not to buy it because it is "super conducting" is laughable.

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

I got a set of late 70's/early 80's Gold plated Snap on screwdrivers.

What is interesting is that they have that "wood grain" like the new ones. These were kept in the commemorative box and never used.

I just never had seen ones that were unused. Obviously the 'grain' wears off with use.

They are awesome!!!

-BWP

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

Here are my PIMPED screwdrivers:

-BWP

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Those are pretty freakin' sweet, hands down.

Adam

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

Those are pretty freakin' sweet, hands down.

Adam

Do you notice anything unusual about the grips? Look closely!

-BWP

 

[LoneGunman]

I notice the "grain" like you mentioned, weird. Another thing I noticed which I am not sure about all the others, why does only the phillips heads have the "R" after the "snap on"?

 

[dps]

The advantage to the gold plating is that it's non-corrosive. They should stay pretty long after chrome starts pitting and rusting in a rough or marine environment.

 

[Diesel-Mech]

Do you notice anything unusual about the grips? Look closely!

-BWP

The script is flipped around the wrong way on two of them.

 

[LoneGunman]

The script is flipped around the wrong way on two of them.

damn, how did I miss something that obvious, hidden in plain sight.

 

[Bolster]

LOL "super conductive", try this, place the screwdriver tip of a regular old chrome plated screwdriver on the set screw of a 480v breaker, then ground the shaft of that screwdriver to the enclosure, after the ensuing arc flash disintegrates your screwdriver and quote possibly burns you severely, try the same test with a gold plated screwdriver. Let me know if you could tell the difference in the severity of the arc flash.

OK, I tried the experiment above, and I was unable to tell a difference between chrome and gold plated, either in terms of the size of the arc, or the degree of burns to my body. If I'm going to toast myself again, I think I'll stick to cheaper chrome plated screwdrivers; more fry for the buck.

Why are you buying insulated drivers? Do you have a use for them or are you buying them because you MAY use one in a year and because you just want them?

I use Wiha insulated drivers daily on voltages you won't find in a house, yup they are good drivers, PB also makes outstanding insulated drivers.

I'm adding can lights, & replacing receptacles (and adding others) in my houses. I'm trying to practice good elec technique by not touching bare wires at all (even when off at the breaker) but I always 'break the rules' when it comes to bending loops in wire, because I love to use a pair of uninsulated wire bending pliers for that. Wish Knipex made some insulated round-jaw pliers.

I really don't care what you or anyone buys but to say not to buy it because it is "super conducting" is laughable.

Excellent! My sarcasm appears to be working as planned.

 

[krusty the clown]

The script is flipped around the wrong way on two of them.

thats because the usually come in an 8pc set, in that tray they lay with phillips on one side and flat tip on the other,blades pointing toward each other so when displayed for sale they all can be read.

 

[krusty the clown]

Excellent! My sarcasm appears to be working as planned.

i got it

 

[LoneGunman]

"I'm adding can lights, & replacing receptacles (and adding others) in my houses. I'm trying to practice good elec technique by not touching bare wires at all (even when off at the breaker) but I always 'break the rules' when it comes to bending loops in wire, because I love to use a pair of uninsulated wire bending pliers for that. Wish Knipex made some insulated round-jaw pliers. "

Okay, just to make sure I understand correctly, you need insulated drivers to install cans and receptacles in a house where you can and will turn the power off? I'd love to see the "rule" where it is suggested to use 1000v insulated tools on deenergized circuits in a residential environment.

 

[speed bump]

gold is the best electrical conductor
there will be less resistence when you touch a 'hot' wire

bob

Actually, from the CRC handbook of Chemistry and Physics 68th ed page F-120-F121 Resistance of wires.

For B&S 10 guage wire

Gold 0.00141 Ohms/ft.

Copper anealled 0.000999 Ohms/ft.

Silver .000944 Ohms/ft.

 

[LoneGunman]

Actually, from the CRC handbook of Chemistry and Physics 68th ed page F-120-F121 Resistance of wires.

For B&S 10 guage wire

Gold 0.00141 Ohms/ft.

Copper anealled 0.000999 Ohms/ft.

Silver .000944 Ohms/ft.

I believe the whole gold is the best conductor myth came about from gold being used on circuit boards, It was used do to golds resistance to corrosion not improved conductivity.

 

[Bolster]

Okay, just to make sure I understand correctly, you need insulated drivers to install cans and receptacles in a house where you can and will turn the power off? I'd love to see the "rule" where it is suggested to use 1000v insulated tools on deenergized circuits in a residential environment.

Yeah, I'm using insulated drivers, pliers, and nippers in residences wired for 110/220v. If you're implying that 1000v insulation is overkill, sure, but where does one find 220v-rated insulated tools? Only choices I've seen for Knipex are 1000v or no insulation rating.

Did I misunderstand the "rule" to use insulated tools when working on electrical circuits? If so, please school me. If Knipex insulated tools are wrong for the job, what should I be using?

Or is your point that I'm a limp-wristed girly-man for using insulated tools for puny 110v and 220v circuitry?

:supergay:

Do real men leave the breakers on and twist live wires with their testicles?

 

[Stuey]

I really don't see the need to use insulated tools on a DC circuit either, but if the tools are already available, they can't hurt. Plus, there are occasions where a deenergized circuit can still be dangerous if there are high capacity capacitors that were not properly dicharged. Insulated tools are NOT MEANT TO BE USED ON LIVE CIRCUITS. Insulated tools are a precaution for working on "deenergized" circuits in case there is an error - human or otherwise, and one happens upon a live circuit.

Anyways, I highly doubt that these are meant for their conductance - although there are such drivers for anti-static applications.

 

[LoneGunman]

Yeah, I'm using insulated drivers, pliers, and nippers in residences wired for 110/220v. If you're implying that 1000v insulation is overkill, sure, but where does one find 220v-rated insulated tools? Only choices I've seen for Knipex are 1000v or no insulation rating.

Did I misunderstand the "rule" to use insulated tools when working on electrical circuits? If so, please school me. If Knipex insulated tools are wrong for the job, what should I be using?

Or is your point that I'm a limp-wristed girly-man for using insulated tools for puny 110v and 220v circuitry?

:supergay:

Do real men leave the breakers on and twist live wires with their testicles?

I'm so happy to see my sarcasm is having it's intended effect.

"Or is your point that I'm a limp-wristed girly-man for using insulated tools for puny 110v and 220v circuitry? "

You do mean DEENERGIZED puny and 220v circuitry, do you not?

"Do real men leave the breakers on and twist live wires with their testicles?"
Not that I'm aware of, anything I'm working on is shut down if it can be and if I cannot see the panel the breaker gets locked out.

"Did I misunderstand the "rule" to use insulated tools when working on electrical circuits? If so, please school me. If Knipex insulated tools are wrong for the job, what should I be using?"

It's a good idea to not use your 1000v insulated screwdrivers for work on deenergized circuits because you want those drivers to be in perfect shape for when they are needed to work on energized circuits. Anyone who has done electrical work with insulated screwdrivers can attest to the fact that the insulation gets damaged from regular use.

Now granted for the amount you will probably use them they'll last you your lifetime, the whole point was that you felt it necessary to make a comment about someone elses choice of tools that made no sense what so ever but you obviously don't enjoy your tool choices being questioned. Like I said, I don't care what you buy, it's your money.

Anyway, I'm done as arguing on the internet is like trying to teach a pig to sing.

 

[LoneGunman]

I really don't see the need to use insulated tools on a DC circuit either, but if the tools are already available, they can't hurt. Plus, there are occasions where a deenergized circuit can still be dangerous if there are high capacity capacitors that were not properly dicharged. Insulated tools are NOT MEANT TO BE USED ON LIVE CIRCUITS. Insulated tools are a precaution for working on "deenergized" circuits in case there is an error - human or otherwise, and one happens upon a live circuit.

Anyways, I highly doubt that these are meant for their conductance - although there are such drivers for anti-static applications.

I disagree that they are not meant to be used on energized circuits, what are you basing your post on?

I am fully aware of the dangers of deenergized circuits but the discussion was about a deenergized circuit in a residential home.

 

[Bolster]

I'm so happy to see my sarcasm is having it's intended effect.

Yes, it's funny. I like it.

You do mean DEENERGIZED puny and 220v circuitry, do you not?

Well that's certainly the INTENT. I have this problem of being human, which means I occasionally screw up. So the insulated tools are a backup.

It's a good idea to not use your 1000v insulated screwdrivers for work on deenergized circuits because you want those drivers to be in perfect shape for when they are needed to work on energized circuits.

OK, gotcha. That's way beyond my pay grade, but point taken.

You felt it necessary to make a comment about someone elses choice of tools that made no sense what so ever but you obviously don't enjoy your tool choices being questioned. Like I said, I don't care what you buy, it's your money. Anyway, I'm done as arguing on the internet is like trying to teach a pig to sing.

Wait a second. My original question really was a question...I did not understand the purpose of gold plated screwdrivers. Although we've established that I am a pig who can't carry a tune, I did happen to learn that the gold plating is for corrosion resistance and/or 'style.' So why don't you accept my apology for asking questions about your gold plated screwdrivers, smooth your fur back down, and I will wish you much happiness with your new 'drivers.

They're certainly nicer than any 'drivers I own. I don't have any 'drivers I would consider investment grade.

 

[Stuey]

I disagree that they are not meant to be used on energized circuits, what are you basing your post on?

I am fully aware of the dangers of deenergized circuits but the discussion was about a deenergized circuit in a residential home.

Insulated tools are meant to provide secondary protection. Those with intention to use them on energized circuits must rely on other protection.

For home or anything other than properly trained professional use, insulated tools are intended to be used on deenergized circuits. I'm basing my info on various disclaimers by just about every single hand tool manufacturer.

I'm having trouble finding official comments on this, but is what Klein has to say:

Insulated Screwdrivers. These are used by electricians and maintenance workers. As their name implies, the shank as well as the handle are completely insulated with a dielectric material intended only as a secondary protection. Never depend on an insulated screwdriver handle, shank cover, or blade to insulate you from electricity. Insulated blades are intended only as a protective measure against shorting out components.

FIG. 22. Careful Cal is using an insulated screwdriver. Handle and shank are covered with an insulated material that is intended only for secondary protection. Turn off current when doing this kind of work.

As far as I'm aware, deenergized circuits in a residential home (are there homes of any other type??) are still classified as deenergized circuits.

The Osha standards that I've been reviewing suggest that insulated tools must be used in conjunction with other protective equipment as well.

Anyways, the burden is on you to prove that insulated tools are permitted as primary protection for use on energized equipment.

I have this problem of being human, which means I occasionally screw up. So the insulated tools are a backup.

I've got that same problem occasionally. As far as I'm aware (and if I'm wrong, I trust lonegunman will correct me, as he is most welcome to do so, and yes I am serious and not trying to be sarcastic), ordinary non-industrial insulated drivers intended for home-use are meant for that purpose - as a safety backup.

 

[bchee]

Do you notice anything unusual about the grips? Look closely!

-BWP

Were they right about the flipped script, or were you referring to something else? I'm just curious.

 

[speed bump]

I really don't see the need to use insulated tools on a DC circuit either, but if the tools are already available, they can't hurt. Plus, there are occasions where a deenergized circuit can still be dangerous if there are high capacity capacitors that were not properly dicharged. Insulated tools are NOT MEANT TO BE USED ON LIVE CIRCUITS. Insulated tools are a precaution for working on "deenergized" circuits in case there is an error - human or otherwise, and one happens upon a live circuit.

Anyways, I highly doubt that these are meant for their conductance - although there are such drivers for anti-static applications.

Actually since the current is generally what kills you. DC circuits can be even worse than AC circuits. I personally prefer being zapped with 120 VAC than 12 VDC. The AC has the tingly feeling like your arms asleep. The DC just plain hurt. Also have you ever seen the large DC circuit required for certain things such as electromagnets that are DC only. I troubleshot a fresh from rebuild 4' magnet that the DC arced through 1/4" insulation and fried the coil.

As far as insulated tools they are generally meant (atleast according to every electrician I have ever met union or not) for circuits you can't de-energize to work on. They are also considered a consumable most places I have ever been becuase after they get shocked or show wear you throw them out or convert them to non insulated tools.

For the person that was using them to replace fixtures in there house. Just buy an AC voltage detector for $10 at HD. Safer, cheaper and easier.

 

[Stuey]

I know that it's the current that can kill you, but DC circuits are sometimes easier to deenergize than AC circuits, or at least it can be easier to tell.

Man oh man, getting shocked isn't fun. I was once giving a demo with a 10k+ voltage source delivering microamps through opposite ends of a gas-filled tube to create a green electron beam. The demo ended, the class went on, and then afterwards another TA came by and I was instructing him on the use of the various demo apparatus. I pointed towards the high voltage source from maybe 5 inches away, and the source discharged, through its 3/4" wooden enclosure, into me. If the shock doesn't wake you up, the act of randomly jumping straight into the air will.

 

[Jononon]

I personally prefer being zapped with 120 VAC than 12 VDC.

You've experienced a perceptible shock from 12VDC ? Do you make a habit of servicing car batteries in the shower ?

DC is worse because it's more likely to cause cardiac fibrillation. All things being equal, an AC shock across your heart is more likely to be a survivable event than a DC shock.

Touching a flyback transformer output is a memorable experience

 

[LoneGunman]

"Although we've established that I am a pig who can't carry a tune"

You do know the saying or is the above your sarcasm at work again? I meant no disrespect with the pig saying.

"ordinary non-industrial insulated drivers intended for home-use are meant for that purpose - as a safety backup."

I'm not sure what you mean by the above, what is a non-industrial insulated driver? I'm not being sarcastic or being confrontational, I really don't know what you mean. If you are talking about your standard off the shelf Klein screwdriver with a black handle then I agree. If you are talking about rated 1000v Wiha's or any other 1000v rated driver then I don't understand. If they are a non-industrial insulated driver what is an industrial insulated driver?

"As far as insulated tools they are generally meant (atleast according to every electrician I have ever met union or not) for circuits you can't de-energize to work on. They are also considered a consumable most places I have ever been becuase after they get shocked or show wear you throw them out or convert them to non insulated tools."

Exactly

Stuey, lawyers and our lawsuit happy country are the reason for those disclaimers. Wiha 1000v drivers are tested at 10KV, I can assure you that every electrician who does any industrial, institutional or commercial work uses those drivers and others like them to work on live circuits. Osha regs on not using insulated drivers as your sole protection when working on energized cicuits pertain to wearing the appropriate PPE for whatever voltage you are working on and the available fault current.


All of this insulated tool talk reminded me off something, I'm curious as to who's ratchet Cementex uses for their insulated ratchets. I doubt they manufacture ratchets and I obviously can't see anything other than the outline of the ratchet under their insulation.

 

[Stuey]

LoneGunman,

Thanks for clearing things up a bit. I'm not sure where I got the impression, but I was led that there are your everyday 1000V rated insulated screwdrivers, and then separate industrial quality ones intended not only for higher voltages but for live-wire work as well.

Things are starting to fall into place now. I do appreciate your patience, and greatly appreciate your putting things in (a more accurate) perspective and for the corrections.

 

[LoneGunman]

LoneGunman,

Thanks for clearing things up a bit. I'm not sure where I got the impression, but I was led that there are your everyday 1000V rated insulated screwdrivers, and then separate industrial quality ones intended not only for higher voltages but for live-wire work as well.

Things are starting to fall into place now. I do appreciate your patience, and greatly appreciate your putting things in (a more accurate) perspective and for the corrections.

Damn, I thought you had a contact for some insulated screwdrivers that exceeded the quality of the Wihas and PB's, you have let me down Stuey.