Good tools Made in China (PRC) ...it is for real..;-)
- Thread starter Blöckw@rt
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trout
Well-known member
I've never actually seen anything labeled PRC before. None of my "Made in China" Milwaukee M18 tools have ever failed me either.
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cburnscrx
Well-known member
And I will go even more against the grain...Kobalt hand tools (some of them, NOT all). There are some that are just plan junk, but a majority of the very basic stuff is not bad at all. I used some in a professional environment and they held up fine. They're now part of my travel tool collection and some have been passed onto my brother.
*Don't bother with the Kobalt mini-bolt cutters...they're garabage.
*Don't bother with the Kobalt mini-bolt cutters...they're garabage.
hell_fish_65
Well-known member
I have worked with mfg plants in China. They will give you exactly what you ask for. They will stick hard to a spec. Its not the plant that approves subpar junk. Its the customer and their product managers.
Building in China has its own sets of costs. Sure, labor is a lot cheaper, but there are other costs, and you weaken your base of willing customers when you build over there. Everyone I know prefers to buy USA made products even if they cost a bit more.
The iphone would cost Apple about $40 more per unit if it were built here (if memory serves). On a $600 unit, $40 is not that much. Turns out Apple needs flexible manufacturing, and they have it more in China than they do here at the moment. They can shift around suppliers almost at will.
warmpancakes
Well-known member
the same , the companies just make less. alot of made in china stuff the shipping is the most expensive part
What's interesting is I bought a Skil 77 at Home Depot back in the 90's for $180. The same saw is made in China now, but the price is the same now as it was back then. It's almost as if like they moved production to China just to offset the cost of inflation.
cburnscrx
Well-known member
They moved it to China to increase profit margin. End of story.
2-3X the manufacturing cost based on:
1. Union greed/corruption
2. Obama Care
3. Punitive corp. tax system
4. Over jealous EPA, OSHA and many other regs.
5. Slow ability to quickly respond to mkt. changes
There's some offset in transportation costs assuming NA is the primary market.
The Chinese can produce whatever quality level is needed AND funded!!
mmack66
Well-known member
Uh oh.
4xdog
Well-known member
It seems that outside the US -- and in the EU in particular -- "made in PRC" is common. In the US, I've never seen anything labelled that way. It's always "made in China".
Can China make things of quality? Of course. I have an iPhone, and it's beautifully made. The thing with China is ya just never know. Were shortcuts taken? Were workers exposed to unreasonable hazards? Is it consistently good? Was intellectual property respected?
China left to it's own devices often seeks the lowest common denominator. Heck, there are plenty of Chinese parents afraid to feed their children food from their own country (I know some of them).
The question isn't CAN China make good products -- they can. It's WILL any particular thing from China be a good product -- and there ya just never know.
Can China make things of quality? Of course. I have an iPhone, and it's beautifully made. The thing with China is ya just never know. Were shortcuts taken? Were workers exposed to unreasonable hazards? Is it consistently good? Was intellectual property respected?
China left to it's own devices often seeks the lowest common denominator. Heck, there are plenty of Chinese parents afraid to feed their children food from their own country (I know some of them).
The question isn't CAN China make good products -- they can. It's WILL any particular thing from China be a good product -- and there ya just never know.
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mmack66
Well-known member
A lot of companies, regardless of location, left to their own devices, will seek the lowest common denominator. Just look at GM from the mid 70's to the mid 00's.
********. It mostly has to do with companies wanting billions in profit instead of millions.
the1nonlyjl
Banned
So have my craftsman 20 volt tools. They still breathing and still going strong.
+1 on that
nationalminer84
Well-known member
Yup those Damned Greedy workers! Thats why the company never LOWERS prices when they outsource. You Sir are WRONG.
nationalminer84
Well-known member
Now back to the real subject here- I own Milwaukee M18 tools made in China haven't had a problem. They will make anything to proper specs UNFORTUNATELY we as a society have taken China to mean Junk and they can get away with making lower quality on some items as we have low expectations. Plus the lifetime warranty gimmick... you make 10 wrenches 5 of them fail, 2 of them come back for warranty, that cost isn't much. These companies are going to one day pay for making the decision to exploit worker's wages in China and take advantage of their nonexistant environmental regulations, Unfortunately we all lose less american jobs, less quality items that you pay the same for....
4xdog
Well-known member
Agreed. But in addition to a specification it takes close supervision and feedback. My company is an international manufacturer, with plants in the US, Europe, Latin America, Asia (including China). We make products in China that are as good as anywhere, but it's taken work.
China is rapidly losing its edge as the super-low-labor-cost producer (to places like Vietnam, possibly India, and in the future who knows -- Bangladesh, Burma, Bhutan... Just like Taiwan before them, China will move up in quality. Chinese brands will start to be trusted (one hopes -- there's already some movement in that direction, but it's fighting 4000 years of cultural history where the family unit is the only thing one really trusts).
For a US company to still be making something, it's almost a guarantee that it's good stuff. The crappy manufacturers long since were driven out of business.
There are of course plenty of US companies that sell lousy stuff. But it specified to be that way and made to that specification by others.
Back in I think it was 2004 or 5 I was at Home Depot and was shocked to see Hilti products and a Hilti rep in the tool department. I was used to Hilti being a high end truck brand and couldn't believe they were selling in a box store. So I picked up some of their products and I inspected them as I do with most tools and the coo said PRC. I was like what the heck is PRC. Then it hit me. China! High priced tools, lowest cost production. Gave me the same sinking feeling that I got when I saw made in China on Milwaukee tools. Very sad day. Now I just buy USA tools at a much lower price. They are just slightly used.
Chuck122
Well-known member
Workers and unions are not the same thing. Ask anybody in Quebec, Canada. The unions collect from the workers at the source, have the power to force workers to go on strike and send big guys to enforce the strike. Fact is in many industrie, not paying union dues is ground for termination.
Unions often have political agendas and make donations without seeking the approval of the workers supplying the money
Guys often complain about the fat cats of Wall Street should look into union fa cats that do not actually produce wealth.
Not saying unions are bad, just saying the way thing are corrupted make them run against their founding principles
Oh and ibtl
All of my M12 stuff I think is china. Never looked, it was the item I wanted and it works well. It wouldn't be better if it was made elsewhere, each of them is a good reliable tool.
My bosch 18v stuff is probably a mix. I don't know whether each item's COO is because I never cared to look. They work well just like above.
Kobalt hand tools (post Danaher) specifically combo wrenches, sockets, ratchets, & screwdrivers. I'm sure if I tried hard I could break every screwdriver bit but used correctly I haven't had an issue with any yet. I'll add the double drive (original, all metal mechanism) to that.
McCulloch steam cleaner. MC1275 i think. That thing is great, no issues with workmanship. HF sells it, the 25% off beats the amazon price and the other just like it from another brand.
Innova 3320 (might be different model but similar) multimeter works great. No I haven't had it tested to see how accurate it is but I doubt most guys have theirs regularly tested either. Works great for my homeowner/home garage use.
Ridgid shop vac, table saw, bosch routers, dewalt router, hitachi miter saw, dewalt circ saw, all top notch tools china or not.
My bosch 18v stuff is probably a mix. I don't know whether each item's COO is because I never cared to look. They work well just like above.
Kobalt hand tools (post Danaher) specifically combo wrenches, sockets, ratchets, & screwdrivers. I'm sure if I tried hard I could break every screwdriver bit but used correctly I haven't had an issue with any yet. I'll add the double drive (original, all metal mechanism) to that.
McCulloch steam cleaner. MC1275 i think. That thing is great, no issues with workmanship. HF sells it, the 25% off beats the amazon price and the other just like it from another brand.
Innova 3320 (might be different model but similar) multimeter works great. No I haven't had it tested to see how accurate it is but I doubt most guys have theirs regularly tested either. Works great for my homeowner/home garage use.
Ridgid shop vac, table saw, bosch routers, dewalt router, hitachi miter saw, dewalt circ saw, all top notch tools china or not.
priceman1414
Well-known member
I'm wondering whether they're starting to use PRC more in the US now just so people don't see "Made in China" on the label and not buy the product.
Yes, also look for ROC. Republic Of China.
priceman1414
Well-known member
MISTERgadget
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2009
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ROC = Taiwan
Good to know. I give Taiwan a pass, because they arn't a communist country(for now) making a killing off of a free country. Also, Taiwan seems to have higher quality products (Refer to the recent Gear Wrench thread).
Nowhere did I say "greedy workers".
It's often the unions that fight off every attempt at a manufacturer trying to increase productivity/efficiency. And as we know, inefficiency and waste is the kiss of death in a highly competitive manufacturing environment.
bull_duck
Well-known member
For many - not all - manufactured products there is no inherent reason why the Chinese cannot produce the same quality as those produced in the USA.
I have found my Eastwood digital torque wrench to be very satisfactory. I am a weekend DIYer. Considered eBay Snapon and could not justify the price ith my occasional need for a digital torque angle wrench. Eastwood for me was the solution.
My commentary on the Chinese made Eastwood torque wrench is here.
I have found my Eastwood digital torque wrench to be very satisfactory. I am a weekend DIYer. Considered eBay Snapon and could not justify the price ith my occasional need for a digital torque angle wrench. Eastwood for me was the solution.
My commentary on the Chinese made Eastwood torque wrench is here.
Moose97
Well-known member
Unfortunately, it's all of these things mentioned above in combination. Add to that very low tariffs for goods coming into our country and very high tariffs for American goods going into other countries. Simple solution really, tax the bajeezers out of any product not made in the USA.
A business sole purpose is to maximize profit. A business is not a welfare or philanthropic institution. A business must make enough to pay for cost, research and development, return for investors. Which company would you invest your money in? Company A give you 1% return on your investment or company B give you 30%. Companies are owned by investors and they have to compete for investor money. Without investors money, company can't service. GM won't service very long if it only making a profit of $10 millions every year while Toyota is making $10 billions every year.
They wouldn't be. Assembled at best. China is the primary source for small electric motors and the raw materials used to create them. They also have a pretty good stranglehold on the small roller bearing market I've noticed.
B17E1943
Well-known member
Remember when "Made in Japan" meant it was ****? Not that I will ever be a fan of Made in China when it is at the expense of American jobs, etc.
1/2 Cup
Member Emeritus
My Dewalt 18 Volt battery drill is 15 years old, made in PRC, it has had a fair work out over that time and still going strong.
upgrading
Well-known member
The PRC issue is interesting.
I believe the "Peoples Republic" has negative connotations in the U.S. so that is why China is used.
SROV wont fly here, but seems OK for Europe.
I believe the "Peoples Republic" has negative connotations in the U.S. so that is why China is used.
SROV wont fly here, but seems OK for Europe.
^^^Exactly. In addition profits fund R&D and capital expansion which are essential components for future growth AND CONTINUED JOBS. (not to mention the affect on many 401K's)
Lets also not forget that out of profits comes federal, state and local tax revenue.
RCStocker
Well-known member
Just about every brand good or bad have their power tools made in China.
Even the good worm drive Skill saw is no longer made in the US. Even some of the cheaper brands make good cordless and power tools for the home owner. I must have over 100 power tools in my construction business and I bet 95% of them come form China. German and Australian made ones are just to expensive for what they are.
I don't see all the fuss over mechanic tools being made there. Most of them are now. Some are **** and some good but I have seen some really bad made US made tools in the past year. It matters not where it is made but how it is made. I have been using those cheap Harbor Freight impact sockets to tighten bolt and install lag screw on the construction site for 25 years now. I have never had one fail, crack and they still look new other than the ware. My 1/2" SAE set cost me $5.99 in 1988. I still have them in the metal tray they came in. I have sets of Snap-on, Mac, Matco, Wright, SK and Craftsman. They all do the job. Only my HF I bought new. The rest I got used.
I can have those HF impact for the tax money on Snappies. I would rather save the difference.
Even the good worm drive Skill saw is no longer made in the US. Even some of the cheaper brands make good cordless and power tools for the home owner. I must have over 100 power tools in my construction business and I bet 95% of them come form China. German and Australian made ones are just to expensive for what they are.
I don't see all the fuss over mechanic tools being made there. Most of them are now. Some are **** and some good but I have seen some really bad made US made tools in the past year. It matters not where it is made but how it is made. I have been using those cheap Harbor Freight impact sockets to tighten bolt and install lag screw on the construction site for 25 years now. I have never had one fail, crack and they still look new other than the ware. My 1/2" SAE set cost me $5.99 in 1988. I still have them in the metal tray they came in. I have sets of Snap-on, Mac, Matco, Wright, SK and Craftsman. They all do the job. Only my HF I bought new. The rest I got used.
I can have those HF impact for the tax money on Snappies. I would rather save the difference.