Craftsman/Sears, Vise ID by Catalog

[Outlawmws]

The Craftsman 5197/5198 Vises

A.) Were figments of one of the writers of the 1948 Craftsman Catalog...He said, "I won't live to see it, but when they get those "picture phones" let's give them something that we don't have to look for..."

B.) Was actually made by Columbian, but was mislabeled and sold as a Reed...

C.) Were all shipped to England, melted down, made into wrought iron fences, which were torn down during one of their spates of urban renewal, sold to China, and shipped back to the US as Harbor Freight hammers...

D.) Are all located in Autopts/Zoomieports/et al's basement/vise store room/stash under the stairs/chained together out in the yard...etc...storage area....

E.) Being saved from the market in anticipation of the impending Zombie Invasion....

F. But being a tenacious old fart, I'm going to keep looking...maybe some/all of the above is wrong...but I doubt it...

P.S...I still think you've got one under your workbench somewhere...

Shhhh....

 

[oldldh]

I knew it!!!!

My lips are sealed...

Sort of...

 

[erty67]

great thread. Just picked this one up. Guessing 60s?

 

[Outlawmws]

60's early 70's depends partly on jaw width. What is that one?

 

[erty67]

60's early 70's depends partly on jaw width. What is that one?

5" jaw

 

[Outlawmws]

So the larger version, and no hint for age, as the 5 was made all years. what is the model number prefix, and does it say made in USA or Japan? in the later years the off shored it, (and in the last catalogs I have access to they added a 4" to the 3-1/2 and 5" widths, and I suspect that was when they went to Japan.)

 

[Steevo]

Thanks!
It looks like my Craftsman 5153 was made in the 1940-1943 period and sold for $10-$12 new.
I paid $30 for it a couple of years ago.

 

[Outlawmws]

And worth every dang cent!

 

[erty67]

So the larger version, and no hint for age, as the 5 was made all years. what is the model number prefix, and does it say made in USA or Japan? in the later years the off shored it, (and in the last catalogs I have access to they added a 4" to the 3-1/2 and 5" widths, and I suspect that was when they went to Japan.)

numbers on it say 391-5191

sorry, 5181. 60s 5" Japan?

 

[Outlawmws]

Yep, 391 prefix = Japan made. And that also means likely later in the lifecycle.

 

[Outlawmws]

Added some for 1952

 

[jusridin]

Thanks outlaw!
506-51830 60s

 

[nine4gmc]

don't know how I missed this thread!! great info!!

 

[hofferwood]

Thanks outlaw
Posed like the add.

 

[pizitz70]

Hi folks,

I'm brand new here. I am looking to gather information on an old vise I was lucky to obtain from my Grandfathers workshop.

It's a Craftsman Model 5169. I think I found it in one of the ad's in this tread. However, I'm uncertain as to what year it actually is. From what I can tell, it might be a 1954 'K' version.

Attached are some photos of the actual vise. If anyone has any feedback to positively identify it, I'd greatly appreciate it. I cleaned it up real good, greased it and mounted it on my bench. It looks great. Lots of memories of that shop vise from growing up. It sure did see a lot of small engine rebuilds over the years.

Thanks!

-Brian

 

[Outlawmws]

The 5169 ran in the catalogs from at least 48 to 54, possibly a year or so past that. In 57 they bumped the mod No., if not the design.

Made by Columbian for Sears/Craftsman. Those are nice vises.

 

[oldldh]

This "rode hard and put up wet 5197???" is on Ebay, as this is written...

I see missing jaws, broken jaw mounts, serious bashing on the dynamic jaw, serious alignment issues with the swivel base (not to mention the welding done to the base), and general "assault and battery" markings...

Autopts is helping me in my seemingly endless search, and sent me an email with this beast on it...

In your "Galactic Guru of all things Craftsman Vise Related" position, is this thing worth making a restoration attempt on???

 

[Outlawmws]

Wow, what a shame. Its pretty far gone, and no mention if it even WORKS...

With that starting price, I think this one is a pass. If it could be got cheap, then maybe try to bring it back. But as it is...

 

[Outlawmws]

BTW that "front view" that looks misaligned? I used the zoom feature and I think that part is OK, The pic is an optical illusion from what I could line up...

 

[oldldh]

I was referring to the first photo...

It looks to me like the whole shebang is sliding forward...

Strange...most of these lead fairly sheltered lives...this one was in something like "The U.S.Steel Hammer Forging" experimental lab...

 

[erty67]

Found this on CL. trying to get in touch with the seller, but typical CL seller is not responding.

 

[Outlawmws]

I added the 1945 catalog page a week or so ago. Thanks to Bluebolt and BFBOB that got it for me!

 

[kc-steve]

Yep, 391 prefix = Japan made. And that also means likely later in the lifecycle.

I'm not trying to throw a wrench in your excellent research, BUT, I believe the 391 Craftsman prefix is for the American company Warren Tool in Ohio. They did outsource many in Japan but I don't think ALL were outsourced. The way to tell the difference is to flip the vise over and look at the bottom of the swivel base. It will be stamped with "Japan."

Steve

 

[Outlawmws]

Steve the merger makes sense, and possibly 391 = Warren tool, but I've never seen a 391 vise not from Japan. or more specifically any marked "USA". - means nothing though, I haven't seen 'em all...


Has anyone else seen a USA made 391?

It's likely, assuming Warren was tagged 391 by Sears, that Warren was the one to offshore the vices to Japan. I would doubt anyone would have bothered to retool the US Columbian plants to change the marking in a transition period. As far as I know, the only "391" Sears had were these vises...

What else did Warren manufacture? Or were they an importer? I've never heard of a Warren Tool, and Google didn't show much that made sense.

 

[Outlawmws]

ps; the "research" is mostly just collecting bits and pieces here and there; it is what it is to the beat of my current understanding. If something is wrong, we can fix it.

 

[kc-steve]

Warren Tool has been gone for about 20 years now I think. As shown in the docs above, Warren was located in Ohio. Some of the info I got was from Steve at Epstein's. He also said that he bought Columbians from Warren Tool until the late 1980s to mid 1990s. Then the old Wilton company bought them.

I think there is at least one thread I recall here about the subject, maybe 2011 or so, where many were stamped Japan but a couple were not.

The USA thing wasn't really necessary. It was illegal to import something without saying where it was made. Without stating COO then it was default USA made. The same thing happened in the Stanley debacle around the early 1990s. Stanley was cited for NOT informing customers their tool was made in Taiwan at teh time even though nothing was stated, stamped, or forged.

So a better question is, does anyone have a 391 Craftsman vise without a COO? If I recall correctly on a previous thread, there are a couple.

Steve

 

[mrkstrk]

Just checked my Craftsman 391-5188 vise purchased in 1976 . On the swivel plate stamped Japan BF.

 

[RRP]

Need any help on specifics on my vise.

It's a Sears branded, 4" jaws, model #506-51776. Made in USA. All this info is forged into the vise.

I assume based on the info in this thread it's a Colombian made vise. But any additional info appreciated.

Thanks
Mark

 

[Outlawmws]

Can't do much without pics, and we have very little on vises post about 1973,

 

[JeremyBurke]

1942 Power tools catalog

1942 Hand tools catalog

1945 Tools catalog

1948 Power tools catalog

So it looks like my little guy fits between 1942-1948. Is there a way to narrow it down further. My dad's 70th is approaching and giving him a vise made in 1944 would be fun. I'm restoring it now either way.




It's a Reed manufactured vise if that helps.



Thanks to anyone that can help.

 

[Outlawmws]

Jeremy, unless you can find a date stamp, somewhere, (unlikely few used date stamps,except Wilton and Sears on the top of the line 51xx series to support their warranties).

All you can really say based on the catalog evidence available is close to 45, as we don't have every catalog. In 42 the cast in name was oriented differently and by 48 it was gone, replaced by the 51xx series probably. The narrowest I could say is possibly 43-47...

 

[JeremyBurke]

Thanks outlaw. I am hoping to find a stamped date code somewhere once it's all cleaned and out if the electrolysis tank.

Edit: I may have to try and find a Wilton for Dad. Since they were better about date codes. Plus I like this Craftsman a lot and I'm selfish.

 

[drivesitfar]

Jeremy: I bet it is a 1944 version of Reed's vise made for Craftsman because it showed up about the time you started looking for something for your Dad.

by the way since you haven't picked a color yet what color is your Dad's favorite color?

 

[JeremyBurke]

Jeremy: I bet it is a 1944 version of Reed's vise made for Craftsman because it showed up about the time you started looking for something for your Dad.



by the way since you haven't picked a color yet what color is your Dad's favorite color?

Drives I hope you're right. His favorites would probably be the same as mine either vintage Craftsman blue or a deep red.

 

[Outlawmws]

Thanks outlaw. I am hoping to find a stamped date code somewhere once it's all cleaned and out if the electrolysis tank.

Edit: I may have to try and find a Wilton for Dad. Since they were better about date codes. Plus I like this Craftsman a lot and I'm selfish.

If you go for the Wilton, remember for a vise built in 44 you need a date code of 49 for the warranty expiration.

 

[RRP]

Can't do much without pics, and we have very little on vises post about 1973,

Snapped a couple, hope this helps.
Tks
M

 

[Outlawmws]

Well the pics are incomplete, but that appears to be an updated version of the utility vise from 66 -73, and that was evolved from the prior Dunlap vises.

See page 1 of this thread.

 

[RRP]

Well the pics are incomplete, but that appears to be an updated version of the utility vise from 66 -73, and that was evolved from the prior Dunlap vises.

See page 1 of this thread.

Thanks for the info. Sorry the pics are kinda lacking, the cell phone and lack of light made for some bad pics I didn't post up.

 

[Tyberius]

I posted some pics of my new vise in the VISES thread, but then found this thread and had some more questions:

From the bottom it looks like 1057 so Oct, 1957? And then there is 517, so that matches up with some of the designations here.

But it really looks like the below vise:

But in a 4 1/2" However, the above pic is from the 70's? And mine doesn't look like the 50's design. Am I reading the 1057 wrong?

Or is it really a 50's Japanese Companion?

ETA: So it looks like this design went back to the 60's and in 1960 was a Dunlap. But in 1960 it said Dunlap, and I don't see any vise that has SEARS written on it.

Further Edit: It is even stamped CHINA but with a upside down "C" and "A". I missed that in my first look and never came back here to fix the mistake.

 

[Outlawmws]

It's almost certainly post 73. Probably 80's maybe 90's.

And yes, the design is old as the hills, and not just Sears centric.