Hot rod magazine ratchet test
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JJThrasher
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That image would make a wonderful avatar.
Everyone laughs at the fat boy, until they realize they're too scrawny for the big jobs.
kc-steve
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You guys are funny. Not scientific you say? Just because you disagree does not mean it is useless. He asked a question.. How much physical presure will this group of ratchets take before they break? Good question. He did some back ground research to find out what ratchets fall into this price range. Did he construct a hypothesis, no, he left that up to the reader. Do an experiment, yep, even with a fairly accurate piece of equipment which most of us dont own. Did he change a bunch of variables? Nope, your not supposed to do that when setting a baseline. Did he draw a conclusion? No, just that he did not want to take a $100+ ratchet to the salvage yard, when there are much less expensive choices that will get the job done. Report his results? Yep...
This was way more scientific that believing that the only way to remove a stubborn bolt is with a high dollar tool.
After looking at the article, I think they made a huge but common mistake with the vintage Craftsman ratchet. The ratchet shown is from the late 1940s to mid 1950s . . .
01. Craftsman
Model Number: Unknown, it's vintage
Where It Was Made: USA
Where We Bought It: Swap meet
What Broke: It seemed broken but only skipped a tooth internally. The action became coarse and clunky.
Max Torque: 333 lb-ft
Price: $10
Torque Per Dollar: 33 lb-ft
Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/feature_storie...#ixzz2bUVrk2cg
Skipping teeth is common for vintage Craftsman but it is USUALLY old grease that has dried. Their test is invalid.
Steve
NC-Fordguy
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While this test is not scientific (have yet to see one on this forum) it does confirm what I already know. Imported ratchets works just as well as their domestically produced counterparts
priceman1414
Well-known member
I wouldn't say this test supports that theory. There were some OLD US-made tools against new imported ones. The new imports had the advantage of both lacking wear and newer design. This was not a test between new US made vs new import.
I would be curious to see what the results of a new-US vs new-import would be.
creativecars
Well-known member
Steve, I agree.
And the author could have made that more clear or cleaned and lubed the ratchet, but instead he noted that its an old flea market ratchet.
My comments were more of discussing it being a more than less a scientific test.
To me it looks like just a good start.
If that Hot Rod Mag test seemed valuable to anyone here, LEARN TO USE YOUR BREAKER BAR!
Breaker bar? What an odd name for the pipe that goes on the rat handle.
it may just be me but i don't see any pro usa guys complaining on this. just the other side giving a rasberry against high dollar us ratchets. i don't have any issue with what the tested, that is up to them. i just don't think you can base any scientific conclusions on used ratchet decades old.
their test does not show anything except what point one particular ratchet broke at. for a couple hundred dollars more they could have done a real test and done at least three of each particular ratchet. any real test must be repeated to gain any amount of validity.
their test does not show anything except what point one particular ratchet broke at. for a couple hundred dollars more they could have done a real test and done at least three of each particular ratchet. any real test must be repeated to gain any amount of validity.
People actually take Hot Rod magazine seriously?? That rag has been a joke for a long time. All mags are whores to their advertisers (it goes with the territory), but HR has to be one of the worst.
What company with any integrity would even publish an article like that?! "Let's grab a handful of random new and used tools, break 'em with an unrealistic test, and..." ...oh it doesn't matter anyway.
Maybe next issue they will grab some old junkyard engines with 200,000 on them and do a redline/blow-up test against some new crate engines! Only 1 of each sample though! give me a break
I'm sorry but only a complete ***** could ever have a "test" like that sway them. Peace out
What company with any integrity would even publish an article like that?! "Let's grab a handful of random new and used tools, break 'em with an unrealistic test, and..." ...oh it doesn't matter anyway.
Maybe next issue they will grab some old junkyard engines with 200,000 on them and do a redline/blow-up test against some new crate engines! Only 1 of each sample though! give me a break
I'm sorry but only a complete ***** could ever have a "test" like that sway them. Peace out
Wakefield
Well-known member
They ought to do the test on breaker bars. Less subjective,no issue of smoothness or drag on the backswing. Degrees per click.
(in half-inch drive) how many breaker bars even when new would stand 800 ft-lbs.?
How many airguns give an honest 800 ft-lbs.?
Primitive Pete was told when the going got real tight,put away the hinge handle (today's breaker bar) and get out the Ell handle? (doesn't have a pivot)
Does ARP need to make the bolts for the breaker bar heads? Do the bolts stretch and fail? (Also an issue for the flex ratchets)
The old Craftsman and Proto should have gotten checkups and a cleaning/ relube before the test.
(in half-inch drive) how many breaker bars even when new would stand 800 ft-lbs.?
How many airguns give an honest 800 ft-lbs.?
Primitive Pete was told when the going got real tight,put away the hinge handle (today's breaker bar) and get out the Ell handle? (doesn't have a pivot)
Does ARP need to make the bolts for the breaker bar heads? Do the bolts stretch and fail? (Also an issue for the flex ratchets)
The old Craftsman and Proto should have gotten checkups and a cleaning/ relube before the test.
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NC-Fordguy
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I would and I am.
When it gets down to it there is no manufacturing secret when it comes to making a ratchet.
Before I joined this web-site I had virtually no imported hand tools-- small amount of gearwrench and some HF impact sockets. After reading and reading the bashing here I became curious and bought some imported tools, then bought more and more. If it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't have bought a good portion of it.
The imported tools have held up just as well as there USA made counter parts. Even the china made crafty ratchets have done well. In fact they are better than the last generation of USA made ones. The pawl was redesigned and the auto-reversing issue is gone.
My experience using these tools in no way is a scientific test either, but neither is all the bashing and rhetoric that gets spewed here a scientific statement.
The discussion here reminds me of the bashing of imported cars in the 1970's. Yea back then those cars were considered junk, garbage, shitboxes etc. We all see how well that thinking went. That debate back then about cars is just like the debate today about hand tools. It's more based upon emotional/political issues than actual fact.
If a country can conduct space flight or produce machinery that operates in outer space it's a safe bet they can make a good ratchet.
I still prefer and buy USA made hand tools, I just simply don't buy into the rhetoric here when it comes to imported stuff.
SMKS
Well-known member
I actually like tests like this. There really is useful info to take from these, even if you make claims like "there could be manufacturing variation."
I know some members here always cry "it's not scientific enough" at tests like these. They're not scientific tests, but they're tools for use in the garage, not a laboratory. The tests are just ways to gather casual information.
The main point is that even a decent quality ratchet will withstand anything you can do by hand. You'll need a cheater bar to break almost anything.
I do wish they wouldn't have used a box head Craftsman ratchet. Those are pretty rare for me to find these days, so I don't think they're representative of the average used ratchets I find.
I wish they would have used this style. A couple years ago they re-released kits for these ratchets and I like them a lot more than the newer style, Chinese or USA version.
(Photo stolen from Kirbot)
View attachment 273898
I know some members here always cry "it's not scientific enough" at tests like these. They're not scientific tests, but they're tools for use in the garage, not a laboratory. The tests are just ways to gather casual information.
The main point is that even a decent quality ratchet will withstand anything you can do by hand. You'll need a cheater bar to break almost anything.
I do wish they wouldn't have used a box head Craftsman ratchet. Those are pretty rare for me to find these days, so I don't think they're representative of the average used ratchets I find.
I wish they would have used this style. A couple years ago they re-released kits for these ratchets and I like them a lot more than the newer style, Chinese or USA version.
(Photo stolen from Kirbot)
View attachment 273898
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I think Stephen is right.
3rdbuttondown
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I think I looked at the Powerbuild 3/8 a couple of years ago - about the time Duralast was swiching from Taiwan to China.
It was very similar in design/dimensions to the Duralast - which is slimmer than most of the Taiwan/Chinese models. If I remember correctly, it was 72 tooth count vs the 36 tooth count Duralast.
I didn't buy it because I've never seen reviews and had some bills that needed to be paid down at the time.
Carquest is across town so I've not visited them since but I do remember when I asked about the price (it wasn't marked) I was told their list price and w/o asking, they offered to see if he could do a little better.
I might have to give them another look.
Found an old thread:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110128
It was very similar in design/dimensions to the Duralast - which is slimmer than most of the Taiwan/Chinese models. If I remember correctly, it was 72 tooth count vs the 36 tooth count Duralast.
I didn't buy it because I've never seen reviews and had some bills that needed to be paid down at the time.
Carquest is across town so I've not visited them since but I do remember when I asked about the price (it wasn't marked) I was told their list price and w/o asking, they offered to see if he could do a little better.
I might have to give them another look.
Found an old thread:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110128
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stratman977
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If that Hot Rod Mag test seemed valuable to anyone here, LEARN TO USE YOUR BREAKER BAR!
Only problem with that statement is that most of them broke at the drive end which would not be any stronger between a breaker bar or a ratchet.
I's bet that old craftsman ratchet is still stronger than a usa craftsman breaker bar. I broke a few of them without a pipe.
NC-Fordguy
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I'm not seeing a rasberry against US ratchets.
While I prefer USA tools, I'm pro buying a tool for an intended purpose.
I'm not going to spend the coin for high dollar usa tools to put in my furniture delivery trucks, road/junkyard totes, or to put in the back of my soft top broncos. If something gets lost or stolen out of any of those I'm not out alot of money.
The snappy, armstrong, cornwell, usa crafty etc stays in my shop.
In my world there is room for both high quality/high dollar tools and the low cost stuff that is both easy to warranty and doesn't bleed my wallet.
I find objective reviews helpful on how best to spend my money. I don't see this review as an import vs domestic ******* contest. Merely just some info a guy is passing along
ganymede
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Info that that can be used to draw conclusions . But doing so is like trying to build a house wih a single brick and a 2x4.
4x4gearhead
Well-known member
Well put, and I have to say its pretty much the way I do it. Why have nice tools for working out in the rain and snow where they will probably get lost from time to time? But I also like to have a "real" as I would put it, set of tools.
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i don't get the guys who are saying." look, look the import ratchets are just as good or better than the us made ratchets. that will show you pro usa fools." the test does not show that as they don't go head to head.
it is an interesting test of +or- 20 dollar ratchets. but to get rock solid info from a test of one ratchet. hell, nobody will argue that there can be and will be ratchets that are d.o.a. out of the box whether they are 10 or 100 dollar ratchets. i don't see how you can argue that you are getting top notch written in stone info from a test of one ratchet. for peanuts they could have tested multiples. if the only test was to destroy then i am pretty sure it took less than an hour to destroy all of them.
again, my opinion has nothing to do with what the coo of the tools is. i would feel the same way if they had tested a pile of us made ratchets the same way.
i bet if they took a stack of 10 (pick your brand and model) identical ratchets you would get a 10-20 % variance in what it takes to break one.
it is an interesting test of +or- 20 dollar ratchets. but to get rock solid info from a test of one ratchet. hell, nobody will argue that there can be and will be ratchets that are d.o.a. out of the box whether they are 10 or 100 dollar ratchets. i don't see how you can argue that you are getting top notch written in stone info from a test of one ratchet. for peanuts they could have tested multiples. if the only test was to destroy then i am pretty sure it took less than an hour to destroy all of them.
again, my opinion has nothing to do with what the coo of the tools is. i would feel the same way if they had tested a pile of us made ratchets the same way.
i bet if they took a stack of 10 (pick your brand and model) identical ratchets you would get a 10-20 % variance in what it takes to break one.
NC-Fordguy
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I recall a test a forum member here did a while back. It was about 3/8 ratchets. That too was unscientific and folks took what they wanted from it. I never consider stuff like that of the hot rod review as the holy word of god.
I do agree with you on the suggestion of using multiples of the same ratchets in the test to get a more accurate results. Of course it would provide a better test, that too I wouldn't consider an absolute conclusion beyond contestation
cburnscrx
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Yup!Everyone laughs at the fat boy, until they realize they're too scrawny for the big jobs.
Farmall450
Well-known member
I agree.
I don't think they were "bribed"...
If you can't accept something don't come up with excuses!
(Not you Chuck...)
And why not the truck brands?
I get the whole $20 for a junkyard ratchet thing. But that's just a gimmick for the article. Add 5 or 6 more ratchets and it would be real interesting.
I got a near-new Snap On 1/2" ratchet for $30 off CL.
rick carpenter
Well-known member
So the question arises... has anyone done a ratchet test to the specs desired by GJ-ers? (Including new, cleaned, and properly relubed; old, rebuilt, and properly relubed; multiple units; last gen USA and "same"/replacement overseas model; etc).
The Gearhead ratchet??? Did you mean Gearwrench? Nver mind I see were the Gearhead ratchet came from. Never heard of Gearhead got to check them out.
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SMKS
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Follow the link. It's a Pep Boys house brand named "Gearhead," apparently.
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NC-Fordguy
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The lead in to the story was about being at a junkyard.
I don't know about you all, but my tool truck brands don't go to the junkyard
Im not familiar with all those ratchets mechanisms, But I don't see anything I would consider a "Strong" fine tooth ratchet. IMO to gain strength in fine tooth form you need a large Paw/Gear Contact area, Such as Dual 80, Matco/GW/Armstrong etc. Its one of the Reasons I don't care much for the 72 tooth Kobalt/EzRed/Whatever flavor of the month is being advertised. The Paw contact is rather small. I Enjoyed the Article, The Numbers are astonishing to say the least. Does it influence my Ratchet purchases? Nah.. there is just too many other variables for me. I do agree with some earlier comments about the difference between a total failure test and how they would hold up on "repeated" torque tests of say 60% of the failure rate. IMO This test represents taking a brand new engine and just red lining it to the point of Internal Destruction, What good does that do? Wouldnt you rather the Engine that can Reliably run from the 1k to 6K for years, versus one that can last till 9k for a few seconds? Again.. It was fun to Read.. to each there own.
I did find a comment on Hot Rod page amusing..
Now I remember why I no longer subscribe to Hot Rod magazine, there are better Chinese and Taiwanese magazines that are cheaper.
it is hard for me to tell if you are being sarcastic or not.
hiball has a valid point. i just don't get a lot of valid info in the destruction of one ratchet. i don't know or not but i suspect that some of them became inoperable or suffered severe damage at a much lower point but the test only ended when they broke. there are far more important attributes to a ratchet than just it's terminal failure point. finish, comfort, tooth count, backlash lifespan and freeplay just to name a few.
i don't care if it is old, new, truck brand, middle of the road or wal-mart special. they are all important aspects and probably more import than the terminal failure point.
i guess to some people that is all they care about.
who the hell would want a ratchet that will outlive the cockroach if it looks like ****, has a horrible finish, poor ergonomics and a boat load of drag?
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Empirical data far outweighs a silly pseudo-scientific test like this one.
How many ratchet have I see over the (many) years I've been trolling for tools in yard, garage and Flea Market sales? Thousands, literally.
How many were either inoperable or missing chunks? (I've seen people try to sell a gutted round head as a "special (rare) tool!" !!! even seen that nonsense on Eprey.
While I have not kept figures, I can assure you that most of them were not the better grade tools (regardless of COO) but given that, the damaged goods are nearly always an import of some brand. Have I seen well regarded US ratchets, broken? Yes, I have a 1/2" Proto missing the pawls and springs (No clue what the issue was), and I have a (now rebuilt) 1" drive Plvmb, that the innards were CRUSHED. (Can't imagine the cheater that was used on that one!)
IMHO, cheaply made ratchets wear out, fall apart, break, or otherwise fail far more often than a well made ratchet. Period. (I have had two of the more recent Craftsman ratchets with the plastic switches simply fall apart...)
As far as I'm concerned, the Hod rod test is worth exactly the price of damaged paper...
(I'd far rather read about Jacks Garage, and ogle the model
)
How many ratchet have I see over the (many) years I've been trolling for tools in yard, garage and Flea Market sales? Thousands, literally.
How many were either inoperable or missing chunks? (I've seen people try to sell a gutted round head as a "special (rare) tool!" !!! even seen that nonsense on Eprey.
While I have not kept figures, I can assure you that most of them were not the better grade tools (regardless of COO) but given that, the damaged goods are nearly always an import of some brand. Have I seen well regarded US ratchets, broken? Yes, I have a 1/2" Proto missing the pawls and springs (No clue what the issue was), and I have a (now rebuilt) 1" drive Plvmb, that the innards were CRUSHED. (Can't imagine the cheater that was used on that one!)
IMHO, cheaply made ratchets wear out, fall apart, break, or otherwise fail far more often than a well made ratchet. Period. (I have had two of the more recent Craftsman ratchets with the plastic switches simply fall apart...)
As far as I'm concerned, the Hod rod test is worth exactly the price of damaged paper...
(I'd far rather read about Jacks Garage, and ogle the model
)Actully I don't see the Craftsman ratchet data having any effect on Matco. I know you're trying to link the Danaher made 36 tooth gear by 2 tooth pawl gear to its matco versions but, a long time has passed since that style of ratchet was Matco's mainstay. Matco has 60 and 88 tooth ratchets that although not tested in the Hot Rod evaluation offer a floating pawl designed gear with 7-11 teeth in contact. It's a pretty strong ratchet.
As for the test, everybody can find flaws in any test. Besides, Hot Rod is largely for entertainment purposes only. Hell, who buys their tools based on what they read in a magazine or online.
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Conductor562
Well-known member
I've used Proto Pearheads since I was a little kid. I can't imagine a ratchet standing up to more abuse than they have. I'm not surprised it is the only ratchet in the test that came out working as well as it did before it. Skipping a tooth at over 650 ft. lbs. and being ready for more isn't to bad a showing. Mine were used in an industrial environment for a good while before I got them about 16 years ago. They're beasts.
I'd be interested to see how the palm control rats faired in this test.
I'd be interested to see how the palm control rats faired in this test.
DeliveryGuy
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So, to reiterate, no one reading this forum could even dream of breaking one of these ratchets without a pipe on the handle. I'd pay to see someone create 330ft-lbs of torque on a 7" moment arm, barehanded.
That's what I do. I have a special junkyard tool box that has everything I might need for a trip to the junkyard. NON of my truck brand tools are in that box but I do grab my 24inch Snap On breaker bar when I'm on my way out the door.
rick carpenter
Well-known member
Nope. Real question.