Can a breaker box be recessed?

[gayler]

Or does it have to be flush with the wall? The reason I ask is I've been insulating and putting up OSB on my garage walls. It's a pole barn. My box was put up on the horizontal 2x6. If I finish the wall it will be recessed. If I move the box to be flush how do I modify the mast to come into the box? I'm also going to upgrade the box at the same time because I've run out of room as it has only six slots in it.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Well, if you are changing the panel, you can use an offset at the top of the panel (I'm assuming the mast enters the top of the box.

What amp capacity is the service into the building? Are you increasing it?

Tell us a little more about your panel installation. (pics are good)

The new panel will need a disconnect, (a main breaker if you will) as you are exceeding the code limit of 6 breakers that you can have without a single disconnect.

Charles

 

[gayler]

Well, if you are changing the panel, you can use an offset at the top of the panel (I'm assuming the mast enters the top of the box.

What amp capacity is the service into the building? Are you increasing it?

Tell us a little more about your panel installation. (pics are good)

The new panel will need a disconnect, (a main breaker if you will) as you are exceeding the code limit of 6 breakers that you can have without a single disconnect.

Charles

My disconnect is on the pole just outside the garage. The service entering the garage is 100A. My present panel I believe is a 70A panel. The service does enter from the top. I just needed a few more breakers as the compressor is using two slots. I have one crapy cell phone pic on my phone. How do I add it?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Never tried adding a pic from a phone, I think others have tried and not had any luck. In any case, an offset on the bottom of the mast will let you set the box out so it will be flush when you sheath the walls inside.

THIS is a PVC meter offset, but they make the same thing in metal and in varying sizes.

 

[gayler]

Thanks Charles. I don't think this will have enough offset because my panel is mouted to the horizontal 2x6 that the exterior tin is screwed to so the box is recessed a good two inches. What about adding flex or PVC to the mast to make the bend?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

You are not dealing with real large, stiff or difficult to work with cable. So long as the mast is properly clamped, mounted, supported, I would think you could do whatever you need to make the bend or S to get it to the newly mounted panel. If the mast is metal, you need to maintain the ground connection to the box.

Charles

 

[Highbeam]

Kinda like running a flue, you would use a bend then a length of conduit, then another bend to put you back to vertical and into the box. Mounting the panel face properly will allow you to open the door fully.

I preplanned for this in my pole barn and with 6x6 poles you will be able to slip a chunk of 2" xps insulation between the back of panel and the purlins.

 

[pattenp]

If you're talking about a recess of just a couple of inches I don't see a problem where that runs a muck of code.

 

[madosta]

Just don't sheet over the panel.

 

[e-tek]

Recessing the panel means no insulation is behind it and condensation can develop, that's why they are generally put on top.

I use my cell-phone all the time for pics - I just email them to Picasa, then link to them. (When you get Googles Picasa you get an email to send pics to, from anywhere).

 

[pattenp]

Recessing the panel means no insulation is behind it and condensation can develop, that's why they are generally put on top.

I use my cell-phone all the time for pics - I just email them to Picasa, then link to them. (When you get Googles Picasa you get an email to send pics to, from anywhere).

I know that's true for northern climates but it's not the case further south.

 

[gayler]

As long as it's not against code I'm not going to worry about it. I'll leave it recessed. I'll have more questions about subpanels later.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Recessing the panel means no insulation is behind it and condensation can develop, that's why they are generally put on top.

I use my cell-phone all the time for pics - I just email them to Picasa, then link to them. (When you get Googles Picasa you get an email to send pics to, from anywhere).

How thick is the wall? I have a 2x6 wall and in that stud cavity I stapled some small 3/4" x 3/4" furring to the inside of the studs at 3.5" from the exterior wall, mimicking a 2x4 wall...so I put 2x4 insulation in that stud cavity..breaker box sits on top of the insulation (no furring behind the box) and it also makes it easy to pull my wires up. Might just leave it that way (R13) or I may just peel a batt in 1/2 and cap it when I'm done wiring and prior to sheetrock.

So I wouldnt worry about that. I've seen people put hard insulation behind the box...heck its small enough of an area that a couple cans of spray foam when your done installing the box should get it insulated.

Everybody I know has a recessed/flush panel and I never seen any condensation issues.

 

[Highbeam]

He means really recessed like inside the wall, not flush like an outlet box in a residence. Imagine screwing your box to the inside of the exterior sheeting and then after finishing the inside surface your panel is back in a hole. Like an alcove.

 

[Zeke]

So, trying to follow along again as an exercise in learning. If the OP is upgrading the box, doesn't he need to buy box and all? I mean changing out the guts is not allowed that I know of.

So, he has to mount a whole new ***'y. How would that be a problem in using a gentle gooseneck in the mast and bringing the panel out flush with the new wall?

 

[gayler]

Ok, I have more questions. My current panel has six slots. Two are taken up by the compressor breaker. The other four, one of which is a tandem breaker, so five are running outlets, lights and door openers. I have another panel thats also Square D QO 100A with eight slots. It's also rated for tandem breakers.So this panel could handle sixteen single pole breakers if using tandems. I have several 20a tandem breakers. Should I just save the money on a new panel and use this one?

 

[RetiredCPO]

All in know about this is that I have had one shop panel recessed and one surface mounted. I will NEVER-EVER-NEVER have a recessed one in a shop again. If you are like most shop type kinda guys there is going to be some nifty new gadget you will absolutely have to have. I know, I have a whole garage full of them. Anyway, with the panel surface mounted, addition of circuits upgrading wire, etc., is much easier. Surface mounting now may cost a few nickles more and be somewhat of a pain but will save you money and aggravation down the road.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ok, I have more questions. My current panel has six slots. Two are taken up by the compressor breaker. The other four, one of which is a tandem breaker, so five are running outlets, lights and door openers. I have another panel thats also Square D QO 100A with eight slots. It's also rated for tandem breakers.So this panel could handle sixteen single pole breakers if using tandems. I have several 20a tandem breakers. Should I just save the money on a new panel and use this one?

Does this square D panel u want to use have a main breaker or just main lugs. If just main lugs, then by code u can't use it because u must have a main disconnect when there are more than 6 disconnects in a panel!

 

[gayler]

Does this square D panel u want to use have a main breaker or just main lugs. If just main lugs, then by code u can't use it because u must have a main disconnect when there are more than 6 disconnects in a panel!

**** I forgot about that! Well I'm screwed agian, I'll have to quit being a cheap *** and buy a panel. I don't suppose the disconnect I have on the pole 20ft away will make a difference?

 

[pattenp]

NEC just says that the disconnecting means shall be at a readily accessible location nearest
the point of entrance of the conductors. So a pole 20 feet away may be a stretch.

 

[gayler]

Well I'm finally back to this project. I toyed with the idea of moving the mast and all, but don't want to have a hole to patch in the roof. I think I found the perfect solution. I'm going to mount an 1 1/2 in. LB on the bottom of the mast and with a close ****** coming into the back of the box.

 

[Aceman]

Why don't you post some pics of your setup?

 

[pitterpat]

Why don't you post some pics of your setup?

I 2nd that idea.

Also, you can get a new QO box for less than $100 at Menards, http://www.menards.com/main/electrical/rough-electrical/load-centers/main-breakers/qo-reg-100-amp-20-space-load-center/p-1736435-c-6437.htm .

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Will you be able to access the cover on the LB? Code requires that you do. It sounds like the LB will be sandwiched between the breaker panel and the outside sheetmetal and this will leave the cover on the ell facing the sheet metal, which makes it inaccessible.

Charles

 

[CNGsaves]

Nothing tells the story better than pictures.

 

[gayler]

Ok, here are two pics of the existing install. Go ahead and give me a hard time, I didn't do it. It was done as a favor to help me out long ago when I knew even less about electrical stuff.The first is a head on shot and the second is at an angle in an attempt to show the 6x6 post next to it so you can see how far back it sets. What is the problem with using an LB? There will be no splice in it. It would be only used as a 90 degree to change directions. I didn't find a 90 at Home Depot

 

[Aceman]

I would shim the panel out so it'll sit flush. Redrill your holes up through the 6x6's for your mast. I would then put an offset in the mast right before you penetrate the roof(I assume you have room for an offset), that way you can use your existing hole in the roof.

If you don't have the means to bend an offset, then I suggest hiring this whole job out.

 

[gayler]

I would shim the panel out so it'll sit flush. Redrill your holes up through the 6x6's for your mast. I would then put an offset in the mast right before you penetrate the roof(I assume you have room for an offset), that way you can use your existing hole in the roof.

If you don't have the means to bend an offset, then I suggest hiring this whole job out.

I don't want to flush, I want to be surface mounted.

 

[SiGmA_X]

If you want it surface mounted like it is now, why are you even worrying about this? Turn power off, remove old panel, install new panel on bottom of mast, and call it good? Only reason I can see for this whole discussion is if you want to bring it to flush vs surface mounted.

An offset should take care of doing it right and flush mounting it...

 

[gayler]

If you want it surface mounted like it is now, why are you even worrying about this? Turn power off, remove old panel, install new panel on bottom of mast, and call it good? Only reason I can see for this whole discussion is if you want to bring it to flush vs surface mounted.

An offset should take care of doing it right and flush mounting it...

I'm not mounting it like it is now. I'm framing between the 6x6 posts,that are ten feet apart, insulting and puting up OSB walls. I would like to surface mount it over the osb. I suppose the right way would be to move the mast and just patch the original hole. I think I'll do that instead. Thanks everyone and sorry for the trouble.

 

[SiGmA_X]

Are you framing flush w the poles? I really would suggest using an offset! I don't know jack about them, but I would assume you can get two 45's and use a chunk of pipe between? That's what I would do with PVC or similar. Could you cut the mast pole down a bit, and put the angles on it?

And like Highbeam said, you will want to consider sticking a chunk of EPS behind the panel otherwise you'll have a good heat/cool leak!

 

[gayler]

Yes I framed flush with the poles and OSB over that. I hadn't thought about 45's, good idea. Too bad I can't find a 90. The LB sets just about perfect, but I guess that I can't use that without axcess to the backside opening even tho there won't be a splice in it

 

[SiGmA_X]

Yes I framed flush with the poles and OSB over that. I hadn't thought about 45's, good idea. Too bad I can't find a 90. The LB sets just about perfect, but I guess that I can't use that without axcess to the backside opening even tho there won't be a splice in it

Well before its too late, consider all your options! I honestly am more concerned about the loss of HVAC ($$$) vs how it looks. Can't you get a recessed face for a lot of panels?

Good luck sir!

 

[RickP]

Yes I framed flush with the poles and OSB over that. I hadn't thought about 45's, good idea. Too bad I can't find a 90. The LB sets just about perfect, but I guess that I can't use that without axcess to the backside opening even tho there won't be a splice in it

Could you use an LB with a side opening like this:

You could install a small access panel in the OSB so that you could get to the side of the LB.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Could you use an LB with a side opening like this:

You could install a small access panel in the OSB so that you could get to the side of the LB.

That's not called an LB..thats an LL, and they also make an LR.

 

[KiltLifter]

If your "drywall" is going to be OSB like mine, then why not recess it because you can unscrew the OSB for access if you need it in the future?

 

[Spudland_Dave]

If your "drywall" is going to be OSB like mine, then why not recess it because you can unscrew the OSB for access if you need it in the future?

With some prior planning, there should be no real need to access it anyways..

I ran all the circuits I could think of "normally"...and prior to drywalling it I ran an additional 4 - 3/4" ENT Conduit runs up thru the wall and stubbed out in the attic...Using THHN, that's 16, 12ga conductors (Max fill) per conduit.. more then enough room for expansion if needed.
I've also got a 2nd sub panel up in my attic for my shop end which is fully exposed and easily accessible...so I'll never really be stuck.