Is there a "sweet spot" for Snap-on tool production?

[pettybird]

I've been slowly upgrading through the tool truck and online, and I've been looking at a lot of different sets. I recently bought a set of extremely nice metric flare nut wrenches from 1992, and I'm looking for SAE. Is there a point where SO really started doing a great job with tools, besides when they started doing things like forging sockets? Has the quality dropped off at any point?

I like new and shiny, sure, but I like the look of the old 60's and 70's wrench sets.

Thanks
Doug

 

[rsanter]

I think some of the early stuff will suffer from the technology of metallurgy just not being there yet.
I think anything you buy from the 60s or newer will be generally good tough stuff. I have some of my dads stuff from the 50s that has held up great and is still in use today with no problems.
WWII was a big learning time for this country. Most things after WWII had the advantage of better technology

Bob

 

[sberry]

I wonder what the rate is now but I replaced a lot of faulty Cman sockets from the 80's. Lots of flawed ones out of the box. Now days the **** gets some attn. but I was really disappointed then for the most part, the only thing was it was cheaper then compared to the competitor, not as good as now but it was a big part of the decision process then.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I've been slowly upgrading through the tool truck and online, and I've been looking at a lot of different sets. I recently bought a set of extremely nice metric flare nut wrenches from 1992, and I'm looking for SAE. Is there a point where SO really started doing a great job with tools, besides when they started doing things like forging sockets? Has the quality dropped off at any point?

I like new and shiny, sure, but I like the look of the old 60's and 70's wrench sets.

Thanks
Doug

Designs have changed along the way no doubt, but I would argue that the quality has never changed. I've got some older snappy stuff, Some from the 80's, 90's and present, and I cant tell any QUALITY difference from my Combo Wrenches with a 2013 date to the 1" I have from 1987...logo is different but that's about all.

Bear in mind, back in the 80's I wasn't in the tool market...I was riding around my pedal bike and dreading the first day of school approaching, but it seems to me SO has kept the quality/fit/finish and overall customer experience exactly the same as its always been even from when my dad was a little boy and adjusted its pricing accordingly where other retailers have said "A Ratchet should be of this price point" and shopped around to make its product that price....First came the reduction of chrome quality, next metallurgy, then they offshore to where wages are less...What did a Craftsman ratchet cost back in 1992? What did the same rat cost in 2002 and in 2012? Bet dollar wise close to the same 1992->2012 BUT everything else around it has 3x in price.

Unless you're looking for a collection of tools with all the same logo style, I really wouldn't worry about quality one bit based on year of production.

 

[metalhead212121]

I'll throw my .02 in..... take it with a grain of salt.

Back in early 2000's I bought a pair snap on battery pliers brand new. My boss had a set that was at least 20 years old. You put them side by side and mine was twice the size as far as the "thickness" of the metal goes.

Another example... another guy I used to work with worked on FEDEX trucks for years and years. He had a snap on breaker bar that he used forever to break lug nuts loose. Over course he put cheater bars on it and the breaker bar FINALLY couldnt take the "extra abuse." We all know you're not SUPPOSED to put cheater bars on stuff but at the end of the day you gotta do what you gotta do.... Anyway.. he got the breaker bar warrantied. Last I heard from him he's still breaking them but he said the first one he had lasted the longest BY FAR.

In my opinion at one point or another the actual quality of metal went down hill. In order to compenstate for the lack of quality they made their tools "thicker."

Again.. this is just my .02.

Yes.. I do like Snap on tools. Yes I will continue to buy tools from Snap on.

 

[Brownsfan]

I wonder what the rate is now but I replaced a lot of faulty Cman sockets from the 80's. Lots of flawed ones out of the box. Now days the **** gets some attn. but I was really disappointed then for the most part, the only thing was it was cheaper then compared to the competitor, not as good as now but it was a big part of the decision process then.

What does craftsman sockets have to do with Snap On? He asked about quality differences in Snap On production.

 

[SMKS]

What does craftsman sockets have to do with Snap On? He asked about quality differences in Snap On production.

What, are you expecting a GJ member to pass over an opportunity to complain about Craftsman tools?

As you know, a thread about breakfast cereal could turn into Craftsman bashing here...

 

[TangoFoxTrot]

Was Snap On as "expensive" decades ago like it is today? I'm almost positive it was not, but I would probably have to see an old catalog and check it through an inflation calculator.

I would think Snap On in the 60's would have been something like the price of Craftsman plus 30%, not several times the price. People weren't as comfortable than about taking on large amounts of debt. A full set of Snap On wrenches (SAE and Metric) is something like $2,000 where with Craftsman it's something like $100-$300 depending on the grade. I doubt the price difference was that extreme decades ago.

Either Snap On just has much fatter profit margins now than they did, or all that money is going to better quality.

I would actually think the newer stuff is probably higher quality, unless all the additional cost is just larger profit margins.

 

[TwoInch]

Was Snap On as "expensive" decades ago like it is today? I'm almost positive it was not, but I would probably have to see an old catalog and check it through an inflation calculator.

I would think Snap On in the 60's would have been something like the price of Craftsman plus 30%, not several times the price. People weren't as comfortable than about taking on large amounts of debt. A full set of Snap On wrenches (SAE and Metric) is something like $2,000 where with Craftsman it's something like $100-$300 depending on the grade. I doubt the price difference was that extreme decades ago.

Either Snap On just has much fatter profit margins now than they did, or all that money is going to better quality.

I would actually think the newer stuff is probably higher quality, unless all the additional cost is just larger profit margins.

i would have to research the snap on prices, but i did recently look at a number of craftsman catalogs from the early and mid 70s, and was not at all surprised that the tools have not increases in actual price really at all. there are small variances, but all in all, prices are spot on with what you will expect to pay right now at any sears. no inflation, $12 in 1972 = $12 today

that said, i seriously doubt you would spend that same $2,000.00 on a full snap on wrench set in 1972... i bet your scenario is spot on.

on another note, i always try to point that out when people start in on the "i aint paying USA priced for china craftsman!!" posts.... every tool manufacturer has steadily increased in price over the years. sears has kept their tools at the same price all along.... and for the last few years, at or below many of the import lines price point.

 

[rusty65]

Actually if you adjust for inflation snap on is pretty steady on prices. And I bet the thickness problem is that the older tools were broken more often and only the strongest examples have survived like what happens with old school wood chisels only the best would stay away from the scrap bin.


Sent From Snap On Headquarters deep in China.

 

[CWP1616L]

The box end offset of combination wrenches. There was a time when that offset was part of the initial drop forging process; now it's done later on down the line on a bender. As a result, the combination wrenches made all through the 1990's look a lot more professional in my opinion.

 

[richfinn]

I don't think the quality has changed much from the 50s onwards.

I think the most interesting thing looking through old catalogues is how many cool specialist tools they made for USA domestic models.

I think the uptake of metric tooling and the increased sharing of platforms has made them look at things in a different way now the rest of the world has caught up after WW2

 

[Hyster Gareth]

Totally agree I have just replaced a 10mm flank drive plus and it has the new bend. It looks out of place compared to the rest of the set which was purchased in 1995.

The box end offset of combination wrenches. There was a time when that offset was part of the initial drop forging process; now it's done later on down the line on a bender. As a result, the combination wrenches made all through the 1990's look a lot more professional in my opinion.

 

[Brownsfan]

I really don't think there is a sweet spot. Anything in the last 20 years will be some of the best quality tools you can buy. The only Snap On tool I have ever had to warranty was a ratcheting screwdriver. Hell even my regular snap on screwdrivers from the late 90's are still going and original. I gave them to my nephew when I bought some new instinct handle sets. The ratchets are some of the best on the market. The one thing I would NEVER buy from Snap On is sockets. They are way to expensive especially since you can get the Williams equivalent for 1/4 of the price(not exaggerating).

 

[Flash21]

The box end offset of combination wrenches. There was a time when that offset was part of the initial drop forging process; now it's done later on down the line on a bender. As a result, the combination wrenches made all through the 1990's look a lot more professional in my opinion.

What other manufactures currently manufacture their wrenches like this still, with the offset as a part of the initial drop forge? I agree, this seems like a better way to a layman...

Any idea why Snap-On changed this? Lower the cost of production or ? I have seen a lot of wrenches from different the manufacturers with incorrect angled offsets due to the bending process...you've seen it, the wrench that is supposed to have a 15 degree offset that is more like 20 degrees and sticks out like a sore thumb.

IMO, based off no concrete data, the 90s where the top for Snap-On....more on the early 90s...KR1000 days with hard handled screwdrivers, brighter / better chrome, the newer SO logo, the wrench change mentioned above...etc I would say the only thing better now vs. then is the ratchet technology and air/electric tools

 

[CWP1616L]

What other manufactures currently manufacture their wrenches like this still, with the offset as a part of the initial drop forge? I agree, this seems like a better way to a layman...

I think Hazet still drop forges their offset, although I've never had one of their wrenches in my hand. Just going by pictures.

Any idea why Snap-On changed this? Lower the cost of production or ?

I don't know, but you have no idea how much I wish I did know...

 

[Nocturnal-G]

What other manufactures currently manufacture their wrenches like this still, with the offset as a part of the initial drop forge? I agree, this seems like a better way to a layman...

Any idea why Snap-On changed this? Lower the cost of production or ? I have seen a lot of wrenches from different the manufacturers with incorrect angled offsets due to the bending process...you've seen it, the wrench that is supposed to have a 15 degree offset that is more like 20 degrees and sticks out like a sore thumb.

IMO, based off no concrete data, the 90s where the top for Snap-On....more on the early 90s...KR1000 days with hard handled screwdrivers, brighter / better chrome, the newer SO logo, the wrench change mentioned above...etc I would say the only thing better now vs. then is the ratchet technology and air/electric tools

Hazet still manufactures their wrenches like this... Bought a set not too long ago.

I'm pretty sure the other German companies do so as well. I could be wrong though...

 

[sberry]

What my convoluted point was that the quality likely got better just as I am sure Sears has really gotten better with the advent of more modern steel mills. Steel has got better all along the way, so much so that a lot of the cheap and the expensive are the same in a different box or has a different finish,, comes from the same blank.

In my opinion at one point or another the actual quality of metal went down hill. In order to compenstate for the lack of quality they made their tools "thicker."

When we compensate fro inflation the Sears tool has gone down in price. Its really why I am still a fan despite its quality, its so cheap.

 

[sberry]

It seems in 81 or so when I bought my first set the price was about 10 to 1 and 2 things have kept Sears in business. 1st the marketing of the warranty which is cheap and profitable and the second is that the margins have spread, premium is now 15 to 1 and in some.many cases 20 or 30.

This is a little Sears bashing, I was disappointed in 81 when I opened the box but at 21 yrs old the juice between 3500 and 35K was a lot and most of it still works. But,,,,,,,,,,,,, is Snappy better,,, I would guess I would have never broken a socket right out of the box. I have asked on a couple occasions if the sockets were tested, I am sure the Sears were not. I broke most right off, not after being abused, recall the 15 snapping the very first time I used it, I thought oh ****. I have a coffee can now littered with a few sears tools over quite some time, need to take them back.



I am not sure about the date of the old wrench but looks a lot like SK to me, the second I bought in 81 I think. That is why I recall the disappointment factor, had a few older Sears tools and they were great, get my big brand new set and ****,,, I lived with it, got me out of a hole and used most of it since.

Sears made a mistake with this, they should have stayed in the 10 to one and kept the quality up a pinch but they went south. It makes them a bargain for the tool user that is blind, it makes it super affordable and at disposable pricing,,, which makes the terms,,, what if I have to replace it,,, and resale value a worse bet than extended warranty by multiples. I will spend 50 on a wrench so I wouldn't need to spend 2 on a replacement in a scenario of "what if" ,, its endless and I can see how the US has tanked,,, the math is the problem.

Modern steel and outsourcing to China will likely solve most of Sears quality problems,,, I bet the new will be way better tool than it has been since the 80's when it was junk like most of it has been of late,,, yes,, think sears in junk but its also a bargain if you need to use a wrench.

 

[sberry]

I see 2 inch wants a 11 pro combo,,, what does it look like? Is it a wrench came standard in Sears sets? If so probably have a couple. Never used, rode the drawer, will trade,, I can keep only one I never use just as easy as 2 or 3,, ha

 

[sberry]

I see a comment about the snap, the cost vs the Williams and that's my general point most times,,, if your goal is to use the tool today cheap and good can be had, there is no point in saving a year to get a 3/8 drive socket set when a guy could have bought something yesterday that worked for a 20 dollar bill.

 

[sberry]

After doing that a few times, a little trial and error I found I bought a set of brand name bits from Walmart when I needed them (one I used once) but some metric hex,,, I don't use daily but abuse when I do,,, bought them for immediate use cash for 13$ and wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

When I bought the set had intended to slide by with the immediate task and use it as a template to upgrade a couple pieces but the bits worked so well they are in service 10 yrs now.

Some of my big letdowns have been expensive. I have never really used Torx from a 5$ 60 piece blister pack but someone gave me a 9 pc in a tin from Tiawan, could see a 5$ tag on it and another time bought a 14$ set that worked 10 yrs before it got lost.

Bust or twist a Lisle bit off and replace it with a flea mkt tool that outlast it 10 to one.

 

[sberry]

I would think a Snap socket is tested. So many of the failures I saw with Sears were out of the box that they couldn't have been.

I remember in kate 80's we built a machine to be shipped out of country and it needed a tool set. One of us or the guy we were working for suggested a Sears and that's what we did,, ok, back, had a fuel delivery and if I catch him can get my pressure washer filled for 0 labor. but back to the Sears before we stuff all this in a box we bench tested it and broke several. Seems like one of the 3/4 drive was Tiawan when they replaced it,,, I didn't care. But we shipped it with a USA made tool set for 99%/

I still remember this, a guy named Robert and myself rigging a test deal in the vise and making a funny comment about sending USA tools,, ha. Wondering if the workers would steal these "gems"