Does wal-mart own the Fram filter co. ??
- Thread starter 1982fxr
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skeletonizer
Well-known member
No, http://www.ucinc.com/. I think Walmart is too interested in making money to get mixed up in manufacturing.
RCStocker
Well-known member
Nope
the1nonlyjl
Banned
Noooooopyeeeeeeeee
928'er
Well-known member
Don't shop at MalWart - it kills brain cells.
Seems like you lose 50 IQ points just walking into the store - just look around...
www.peopleofwalmart.com/
Seems like you lose 50 IQ points just walking into the store - just look around...
www.peopleofwalmart.com/
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ihredo4
Well-known member
When did this happen? Last I knew Fram was owned by Allied Signal which was bought by Honeywell. Same umbrella that owns/owned Garrett Turbo Chargers. I worked for Honeywell during that takeover but have since left the company. Thanks
Fram went from Bendix Aviation to Allied Signal in the 1980s.
Then to Honeywell International after the Allied Signal - Honeywell merger.
Then Honeywell International sold the Fram brand to Graeme Hart, the Warren Buffett and Bill Bain of New Zealand.
1950mercury
Well-known member
fram filters are junk...
TwoInch
Well-known member
for side works, I buy all the SuperTech oil and Puraltor and ACDelco filters from Walmart. that's a No Brainer for $10 cheaper than autoparts stores, more importantly, all Made in USA, baby.
They may of deserved that reputation 10-15 years ago but no longer. Their Tough Guard and Extended Guard/Ultra are actually very good filters. They've also been combined with Champion Labs under UCI. Fram is also the new OEM supplier for Honda's factory filters (tough guards with Honda spec'd high-flow media and thicker end caps to meet Honda's oddball 1 filter for 2 OCI recommendation). I believe they're also the supplier for Subaru. If you cant be convinced by their generally regarded great filtration scores and the fact that at least 2 major car brands (both known for high reliability) are sourcing their factory oil filters from them then nothing will convince you.
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TwoInch
Well-known member
the ultra and tough guard still have the cardboard cap if IIRC. and all the write ups that have torn them down all seem to feel they are not very well designed in any regard.
i wont use them.
if they make some "upgraded" version for honda, that would constitute a different filter than what you will get at walmart or autozone.
there are too many really good filters out there for about the same, or a buck or two more, with better filter media, and steel caps instead of cardboard.
the pureone filters are damn good filters, and only $4-5.00 for most applications.
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Ign
Well-known member
Anyone remember the website ~14 years ago where the guy cut open a lot of filters? In particular he had nothing good to say about the Frams, but eventually re-worded the website as he said he received a threatening letter from a major retailer. He wouldn't say who but said it was not Allied Signal (they're not a retailer anyhow). After that the website was more gently worded about Fram, but I don't blame the guy.
I know there have been plenty of websites where people have cut open filters, but this was one of the earlier ones and he had a lot of good info. I thought it sucked a corporation with who-knows-how-many lawyers on retainer chose to bully him.
edit: it was the minimopar site mentioned here:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef0201e/2394
looks like the site is down now. On the next page of the discussion above one guy "Dusty" tears apart the original study, so who's to know the truth
I know there have been plenty of websites where people have cut open filters, but this was one of the earlier ones and he had a lot of good info. I thought it sucked a corporation with who-knows-how-many lawyers on retainer chose to bully him.
edit: it was the minimopar site mentioned here:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef0201e/2394
looks like the site is down now. On the next page of the discussion above one guy "Dusty" tears apart the original study, so who's to know the truth
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ihredo4
Well-known member
I might have to try them again since Honeywell is NO LONGER THE OWNER.
the1nonlyjl
Banned
agreed! too repulsive to stroll along through trailer trash store and the girls ewwwww... f'd up looking ones.
The end cap material is less important than how the media is secured to them. This is why Fram continues to use a paper end cap, because they feel it gives them the best seal between the media and the cap.
Filtech (prior OEM for Honda) also used paper end caps, as does Purolator depending on the application. Some filters don't even have end caps. For some reason Fram is the only one that gets knocked for it. They've been designing and manufacturing filters with paper end caps for something like 50 years, i'd wager they know what they're doing. They definitely had a spell where they made some awful filters but that time is well in the past.
Its not upgraded. The end caps are still cardboard but are thicker and the media is a high flow type but it filters poorly (at 20-30 microns). Japanese makes in general seem to favor high flow over filtration. The filtech filters that Honda used previously had the same goal, as do the Denso filters that Toyota uses.
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TwoInch
Well-known member
Make sure you steer everyone anyway from those crappy Honda's and Subaru's then.
Cant say I didn't try.
like i said earlier, if fram makes the honda and subaru filters, i am positive they specify that the filter is of a certain type and quality level.
i am not sure why you are claiming all fram products are of acceptable quality to people that want the better and best filters available...
i guarantee if you cut open the honda OEM filter, and a fram tough guard, you would not see the same internals. i almost guarantee that honda specifies that the filter contains a steel cap, or something other than cardboard.
i am sure fram can make the best filter on the planet if a company specifies those specs. the point is, the oil filters available at AZ and walmart are not great, they are not even good in most educated opinions. there are too many great options out there to put cardboard oil filters on your car....
edit - does the fact that practically no other oil filter company is using cardboard end caps in their filters saying something? or that all quality filters use a silicone anti=drain back valve, and not frams nitrile drain back valve? come on....
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Loscaldazar
Well-known member
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- Feb 23, 2013
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Make sure you steer everyone anyway from those crappy Honda's and Subaru's then.
Cant say I didn't try.
Both Subaru and Honda use Fram Made filters as OEM for those who don't know....
Ironically for Subaru, the Fram filter (OEM version only) is one of two filters that meet Subaru's Specs for oil bypass. The only other one is the Wix filter (also rebranded as NAPA GOLD). All others bypass filtration at too low of a PSI. So the fram OEM filter is better than almost all the aftermarket options.....
Mickey O
Well-known member
A little bit off topic but somewhat related. I've noticed at WalMart they have brand name items that look the same as other stores but on certain items the Wal Marto version is imported where it might be USA made at another store and the items look identical (toothpaste was one of them), so keep an eye open for that. I've also seen the same thing with Apex tools, depending on the store, the same item has a different COO (and price).
TwoInch
Well-known member
didnt see this post before i posted my last post.
better seal with the cardboard? give me a break. thats ridiculous.
the cheapest oil filters you can get use cardboard. frams most expensive filters use a steel cap? wouldnt they use the "better sealing" cardboard on their top of the line product?
TwoInch
Well-known member
better? i wouldnt word it like that. their are many things to consider what makes a filter better. you must also take into consideration why filters are designed to bypass the element when PSI reaches a certain point... im not convinced that raising that number is necessarily "better" in all regards. OEM engineers have made many bad decisions over the years, so i dont put them on a pedestal like many due.
TwoInch
Well-known member
also, all companies will give you reasons why their particular product is superior. the problem is that every one of them is superior to the next.
and if they have been doing this for 50 years and know what they were doing, how do they put out bad product for so long? you said yourself they put out bad products for some time... they are making the filters the same way they always have.... so whats different to make them all of a sudden better?
its not upgraded but its got a thicker cardboard? and it got high flow media? sound different to me. i agree its probably not an upgrade though.
i would much rather have the filter that has a steel cap, has good media that catches the dirt, and have a proper bypass so that the engine is not starved of oil when the pressure spikes. under normal conditions the filter is taking out all the little garbage, with proper flow. PSI spikes and it bypasses that bit of oil. they all bypass oil at start up and any other time the PSI spikes, so why not use the better filtering media?
Old Steamer
Well-known member
Ditto in my opinion. Think what you want, but I steer clear of them.
I'll use Wix, Purolator or NAPA Gold.
I'm even hesitant of GM oil filters these days although I'm begining to see these now made in the US and not Mexico.
TwoInch
Well-known member
i understand that using fram oil filters will not cause your engine to implode. i understand they have been used for many decades also.
i refuse to say that they are a good or great product in the big picture though. there are far superior designs. and frams explanations for why they use the materials they use is ridiculous marketing ********.
why all the "quality" filters dont follow frams lead and use these materials??? its a mystery...
they make a cheap mid level product, and their prices show that. people want to use cardboard end caps and non API oils in their engines, good for them. i bet most all of them will have no oil related failures in those engines. doesnt mean those products are great or that 50 year old oil filter technology is good in todays standards.
d.mcfarland
Well-known member
Fram orange can and Fram ultra are two entirely different filters. I refuse to use either. Wix, Napa, or ACDelco for ecotec's.
kams1973
ALLIANCE MEMBER
IIRC, Baldwin filters have cardboard end caps. I've never heard of anyone bashing the Baldwin name.
justanengineer
Well-known member
No disrespect intended, but some of the world's largest fleets use Fram exclusively without issue, and many of them have experts who do more than just cut open filters. Personally, I wouldnt believe half the bs you hear on the internet from "experts."
Beyond that, assuming were talking automotive engines, even with a **** filter and only average maintenance you have to be pretty talented to have a lower-end issue on a modern engine in its short 250-300k lifetime so arguing filters is rather irrelevent.
If you remove the interior the paper section that the media is stuck to is clearly visible. Its smaller since they seal the seams of the media individually instead of sealing around an end cap but its still a filter with its media stuck to paper ends. One of the people on BITOG who took apart a Filtech and Fram Honda said that the Fram was actually noticeably better in terms of whatever the sealant was.
You mean the filter they expect to go 15000 miles? Different specs for different products. They also reinforce the screen with a cage and use an entirely different media. I suppose every filter that doesn't have this reinforcement is also garbage.
Heres your Honda oil filter that looks just like a slightly different Tough Guard. No steel end caps. Subaru is the same.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2983031
Fram was not regarded as junk until the 90s when they were driving the company into the ground. Its not so much due to the design but rather they severely lacked quality control. Before that time Fram did not have a bad reputation and since that time they've fallen under new ownership (again) and have been producing a higher quality product.
Just to reiterate, the end cap material is not as important as having a proper seal around the end cap. Its the same regardless of what filter brand you're talking about. Frams claim is that its easier to create a tight bond that will resist failure between a paper end cap and the media than it is trying to bond media to metal. Again they've been in business for over 50 years. If it wasn't working they'd of changed. Its not like those thin stamped sheets of steel would make a big difference to them, especially now that they've consolidated manufacturing with Champion Labs that uses your favored metal end caps on most of their product lines. Understand that im not saying that paper is better than metal, but what I am saying is if their claim is true, that by using paper they can make a better seal around the media, then it 100% makes sense.
Theres nothing I can say to change your mind so honestly if you feel so strongly about it go make a post at BITOG and let the vast majority of the members there tell you Fram is making good filters.
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Seems pretty civil over there. Im not a member, google just brings me there occasionally, but threads like this essentially echo my sentiments.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3007090
Im also tired of debating it. Just a damn oil filter.
joe_padavano
Well-known member
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
Allied wasn't BOUGHT by Honeywell. Allied Signal BOUGHT Honeywell. THe main reason is that the Honeywell name is very well known. Allied Signal just plain sucked and they were almost a sinking ship, so Allied bought Honeywell mainly for the name. I worked for Grimes, which became Midland Ross, which became owned by the holding company Forstmann Little. Forstman Little brought in one of their guys as more or less someone to get a behind the scenes look as to what was actually going on. THe ex CEO of Allied was running our company and basically just *** ****** the place. They constantly had to have off site meetings on rented yachts down in the Gulf or at some resort in Colorado and it was happening quite frequently. I can't remember right off who Forstman Little brought in but it wasn't long until the CEO of Grimes or whatever name we had at the time was shitcanned. The guy they brought in sent morale through the roof. Everybody loved having him as the new CEO. It got down to the point that an offer was made to Forstman Little by Allied Signal. The CEO that Forstman had planted in there earlier made a counter offer and just about had it nailed, but at the last minute Allied made another offer and Allied bought it. From that point on, morale wasn't through the roof, it pretty much went into the toilet. Allieds stock wasn't doing real well so they bought Honeywell. Every person I have talked to that worked at Honeywell, really liked it. Everyone that worked at Allied Signal hated it. So it is still ran like Allied but just has a different name. Almost everyone that was transitioned over from Honeywell to Allied Signal is basically gone.
Correct on this as I just looked it up.
Correct on this. Michelin does the same thing with one line of their tires. They are specially made for WallyWorld. I found this out after a buddy blowed a tire on his truck. He was running Michelins and went to a tire place in town that carried Michelins. They took one look at the tire and told him to go to WallyWorld as they are the only one that carries that particular tire. I imagine it's also done with a lot of other items besides just a tire and an oil filter.
I just asked this question a little bit ago on another thread, but I was looking for something on the stock market yesterday and I swear I saw where Fram belonged to Honeywell. Like I said, I'm not sure but I think I saw it. I recently retired from Honeywell on disability. But when I was working there (formally Grimes in Urbana, Ohio) in the training that we go through, the Cell Leaders would always be taking trips to Fram to show and discuss how well Fram is ran. I just found it unusual that Fram was the go to place if we didn't own them anymore
I'll have to look at the history on my garage computer and see if I can find where I read that.IHREDO.......Look up Dave Cote. He made CEO of the Year with also a $7 million + salary and bonuses. I remember a few years back that our plant had to cut back on EVERYTHING, paper clips, pencils, computer paper. It was what one would call "absolutely ******* ridiculous"!!!!!!! But if we save enough that year, Big Dave got a $10 million dollar bonus for the year. He **** in our dinner plates but we had to cater steak to him. I don't know where you worked at, but at our plant, once we were bought out by Allied which then became Honeywell, our morale went down the toilet. Then all of a sudden, the way the place was ran, people started turning into a bunch of backstabbing backbiters. Our plant was always a family oriented plant. Morale was high, people got along, and one would actually look forward to going to work. Now people who were close friends are no longer friends, and you had to watch your back because someone will cut your throat to make theirself look better. People would rat out people for the stupidest little thing. They also implemented these cards called "Near Miss". That means if there was something that almost happened that could almost cause a potential injury, it was investigated, things were changed so it wouldn't happen again, and at times people were given a verbal or written warning. We had a temporary employee that worked in the plating department. He turned and stepped onto or into a parts basket that was laying on the floor. IIRC, he broke his ankle. When he came back to work he was let go. We also had an older employee that had 52 years in the shop. He was finally going to retire. The day he was to retire he came in, was called into the office, and was escorted out the door. He was allowed to come back at lunch time to the parking lot only to talk to his coworkers, but was not allowed in the shop to say goodbye to anyone because it would upset the work that was being done for the day. And when someone retires, or is let go, the work that the person was putting out just got shuffled over to the other employees in the department to carry the extra load. Very rarely, unless it was an engineer or someone in carpetland, would they replace anyone. It cost too much money. Grimes / or Honeywell as it's now known employed a vast amount of people from our small town. I have spoke with a lot of people that used to work there and not one single person missed it after leaving. My wife had 40 years in, and was the top wiring assembler in the place. It pissed coworkers off that she was always requested to do the wiring on prototypes or special projects. So they stole her inspection stamp to stamp off their parts. She was called into the office over that, but both Final Inspectors backed my wife up as they knew the ****** work was not hers. Then she got called into the office or Human Resources for trying to intentionally run over someone, which she didn't. It was a coworker who took her inspection stamp that said my wife was trying to run her over.
I had 30+ years in as a Tool Designer and a Tool & Die Maker. After I found out that my disability claim went through, I had to go and get my toolboxes. I had to stand out in the parking lot and wait until they were brought to me and I had to turn in my badge and keys to my boss out in the parking lot. Then I found out that there were a bunch of items stolen out of my boxes, but my boss called me a liar because he said that the first day I was off work for my surgery, he locked my box up into a secured area. ********. I was in there a month later and my boxes were still at my bench. There was quite a few hundred dollars of stuff missing, but I wasn't allowed in the shop to prove it. And my boss said he asked the coworkers if they had my stuff and they said "no". Well hell no, they wouldn't admit to it if they stole it. I figure Karma will get them someday.Well my morning RANT is over!!! I get to talking about the shop and I easily go into a rant
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
In talking about Fram and Honeywell, I bought a filter the other day that was a Fram, so I'll have to look at the box, but I did find this http://www.boatparts.net/fuel-tanks...sories/fram-honeywell-c1191a-filter-oil-fuel/
I also found this on a link about filters:
And found this in Fostoria, Ohio's Chamber of Commerce page:
ANd what I find unusual is that Fram is in Greenville, Ohio and makes filters, and also in Fostoria, Ohio for Filters and spark plugs, but yet the Auto Parts Stores and WallyWorld filters are made in China.
I also found this on a link about filters:
And found this in Fostoria, Ohio's Chamber of Commerce page:
ANd what I find unusual is that Fram is in Greenville, Ohio and makes filters, and also in Fostoria, Ohio for Filters and spark plugs, but yet the Auto Parts Stores and WallyWorld filters are made in China.
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djjsr
Well-known member
Spend some time in the pits at your local dragstrip and you'll see lots of Fram filters.
I ran a methanol injected 509" BBC with a 10 qt. sump and turned over 8k RPMs every pass. Never had an oil filter problem in 5 years using Fram HP4 filters and I know dozens of guys that also use them without failure.
But I'm not trying to convince anyone what is best. Use whatever filter you like. Bashing and arguing about oil and oil filters on the internet is a phase that a lot of people go through. Sooner or later you'll realize it's pointless.
I ran a methanol injected 509" BBC with a 10 qt. sump and turned over 8k RPMs every pass. Never had an oil filter problem in 5 years using Fram HP4 filters and I know dozens of guys that also use them without failure.
But I'm not trying to convince anyone what is best. Use whatever filter you like. Bashing and arguing about oil and oil filters on the internet is a phase that a lot of people go through. Sooner or later you'll realize it's pointless.