Duro-Chrome 678D Ratchet relic find - a piece of history

[nudelmannrichter]

Hello everybody,
just new here from Old Germany.
I stumbled across this forum by searching info about a specific ratchet that has been found recently over here in Germany.
I try to explain in short why this find is interesting for me. Sorry for writing a bit much but I think I have to, to make clear what I want.
With some other guys we are running a project to rebuild a wartime rocket plane, the Bachem Ba-349 Natter.
To go deeper into this, you may ask the Net or also go on one of our project websites:
http://www.ba-349.com and https://www.facebook.com/ProjektBachemBa349Natter

One episode in the history of this plane is that at the end of the war the so called "Operation Krokus" was established.
The plan was to build as much of these planes as possible, to put them on launch pads and launch them vertically to fight against allied bombers.
Only one operational launching site was built, consisting of three concrete platforms. Due to end of the war only the concrete was ready and the launching poles have
been manufactured but not installed cause US-troops were coming quite close and the site was abandoned. As eyewitnesses told, the US guys did not find the site and also there
are no US intelligence records mentioning this.
These concrete platforms are still there but now in danger to be destroyed by a railway building project. This was the reason to make an
archaeological investigation on the site to document everything around and to safe the traces of history.
During this investigation in the 2 meters deep center hole of one of the concrete platform beneath other stuff a DURO-CHROME 678D ratchet was found.
The layer of debris it was found in is for sure from end of war time.

So after explaining the what and why, the question ist, how this ratchet tool might have come into this pit.
At the moment I have three options in mind:
a.) US troops used them during war and brought it to germany. US troops are supposed not been on the site but of course they have been in the area, so for example children
may have stolen this and thrown it into the pit to hide it or one of the many possible variations of this happened.
Does anybody know if DURO had a contract with the US-Army that may have contained this tool?
b.) This tool was part of an on board tool kit (maybe by Western-Auto) of a US-car brought to germany before the war. Somehow it ended in the pit.
Does anybody know if this ratchet might have been a part of a cars tool kit ? Was this common or did car kits only contain the same crappy cheap tools as in our days?
c.) DURO exported tools to germany before the war. It was used by the buliders of the concrete or by the guys who prepared the iron and wood work for the launching poles.
Does anybody know if they did export to germany in quantities? If so, has there been a german catalog? Anyway if this theory is right somehow it must have been
between 1932 and December 1941 because after the USA entered 2nd World War it is not so probable that things have been exported to germany.

So maybe someone had an idea and can help to add another piece of the puzzle to the whole history.
I attached some pictures of the item to illustrate the whole thing a bit. If more pics are needed, please let me know.

I hope it is ok for you that I placed this question also in another forum just to see what comes out.

Thank you for reading and best regards from Germany

Stefan

 

[ganymede]

Greetings.
In the late 40's-50's in 'Popular Mechanics' and 'Popular Science' magazines there were advertisements titled War Surplus Bargains. I remember seeing Duro Chrome ratchets advertised. I'll see if I can dig one up ( no pun intended).

 

[nudelmannrichter]

Hey ganymede,
thank you for this.
What you are writing sounds very promising. Would be great if you could find such an advert.
thank you and best regards
stefan

 

[toolnut]

Alloy Artifacts my help out a little.
http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/duro-indestro.html#history

 

[ganymede]

Phooey.
The ad does not say War surplus,
only 'Surplus Hardware Bargains'
Sorry to get hopes up.
Here's the ad anyway. It's from March 1948 issue of Popular Science...

 

[devoncoolman]

Pretty cool. Lots of stuff from the war that many people dont know about. I honestly would figure it was from the us military. Probably needed to repair a tank and found the concrete slab and used it to work on the tank or equipment. Probably didnt know what it was built for. Hence why it was never mentioned in any war time records.

 

[rusty65]

Very cool find! I've heard of some plomb ratchets being found in hidden places of old tanks.

 

[nudelmannrichter]

hey, thanks a lot. The ratchet is clearly to see. Does anybody have a picture where one of these ratchet with a typical marking for military contract? Like x-Circle or other?
cheers
stefan

 

[nudelmannrichter]

yea, of course. Pretty sure that the US guys went around in the area also weeks and month after war. Maybe a vehicle was stuck there or whatever. I am sure that a "normal private" had no clue when he saw such a concrete base. The intelligence guys were experienced in looking after strange wonder weapons stuff. But they missed it.

 

[rusty65]

Hey incase you were curious in learning some more history about indestro here is a link to a website that can pretty much tell you everything about indestro.
http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/duro-indestro.html

 

[Jarhead0408]

I've got two that look like that. The selector is the exact same.

I don't know if they were made by Duro-Chrome though, I'll have to check.

One is definitely a knockoff as no mfg is stamped on it.

 

[toolnut]

That project is very interesting. I'm sure as the war was coming to an end supplies, tools, and a place to build them were hard to find. Wouldn't be surprised if Wernher von Braun didn't have a part in designing those.

 

[4BT]

Sounds like a similar program to the Messerschmitt ME163 Komet.

 

[nudelmannrichter]

u r absolutely right, the Me 163 used the same rocket engine as the Natter, a bi propellant liquid fuel Walter HWK 109-509 A-1 motor.
Main difference between both is that the Natter was designed only to be launched vertically with help of 4 solid fuel boosters and had no chance to land. The pilot had to get rid of the front section after fuel was gone and to leave the plane using a personal pachachute. This plane was never in operational use, the only manned start which was also the world's first manned rocket start, ended tragically in a crash. But please note that this was NOT designed as a kamikaze plane. The plan was to land the pilot safely and to reuse the motor that landed separately with the rest of the fuselage also using a parachute.

The Me 163 started on a runway and was able to perform a slide landing after a mission. The Me 163 was in use for several missions, on the net a lot of film and other footage is to be found about this.

regards
stefan

 

[4x4gearhead]

Pretty cool. Lots of stuff from the war that many people dont know about. I honestly would figure it was from the us military. Probably needed to repair a tank and found the concrete slab and used it to work on the tank or equipment. Probably didnt know what it was built for. Hence why it was never mentioned in any war time records.

This seems like it would be pretty likely. Since he said we were pushing up on their asses so much so that they abandoned the place wouldnt surprise me.

In either case what an awesome story! I cant wait to see what you come up with. I have always had a fascination with WWII and all that went on.

 

[crucible]

Neat find Stephan; I love those old military historical sites!

I don't know about the ratchet, but I have seen and touched a real Natter here in the US (at the Smithsonian restoration facility). At the time, it was sitting upright on skids looking much like it must have when it was captured (along with the remains of an HO-229 Horton flying wing and a intact, but removed wings, DO-335 Pfeil-with ejection seat!)

 

[nudelmannrichter]

it was one of our main mistakes in this project that we did not visit the Smithsonian Natter before doing all the drawing work. So now we got very close to the original but not 100%.
George Lucas was so kind to supply a set of pictures, so I have a good walkaround series, but this is not the same as being there.
In between we saw a set of drawings in a german archive but for the moment it sounds difficult to get proper scans. On all this drawings are stamps from Wright Field with microfilm numbers so I am quite sure that in that what is left from Wright Field archive the microfilms are to be found. That would be good to get good high resolution scans from there. But not so easy from germay to manage.

 

[nudelmannrichter]

just to illustrate how wet ground is able to cause different corrosion on same piece of metal. You see parts eaten half by corrosion and a millimeter beneath you can still recognize traces from the machining tools the ratchet was manufactured with. Maybe of interest somehow.

 

[Bruce Lancaster]

There have been Duro-Chromes in the sale section...you might run a search and see if you can turn up a good one to display beside the relic.

 

[nudelmannrichter]

yep Bruce, that's a good idea. I was around on ebay a little bit the last couple of days to see whats up but I only found similar ones. Think here it might be important to find a identical one from approx same time. Shall not be too expensive cause I have also to pay the shipping to germany. Here the vintage US ones are not to find. German ones are much more easy to get if you go around on flea markets.

 

[nudelmannrichter]

just to make it more complete, I did a 3D graphic reconstruction of how the ratchet might have been looking right after production.
Cheers
nudelmannrichter

 

[d42jeep]

Hi Stefan,
I have a collection of WWII tool kits that every army division would have had for their mechanics to be used for vehicle maintainence. The Duro Chrome ratchet was commonly used in these sets beginning in October of 1942. They were widely used and it would be my guess that this would be the origin of your ratchet. I will post a few pictures. I seem to be able to post only one so I sent a picture of the ratchets I have had.
-Don

 

[nudelmannrichter]

Hi Don,
thanks for that. Would be awesome to have some pics of a tool set with exactly this ratchet in. Also the numbers (contract number, whatever) from the tool set would be interesting cause this would make me able to find an Us-amy technical manual which mentions these tools that could kinda close the circle.
best
stefan

 

[d42jeep]

This might help you. I don't know why I can't do more than one picture per post but if you respond I can send some more.
-Don

 

[nudelmannrichter]

thanky, very interesting. Oh, only one pic per post? Dunno, maybe a restriction for new members? But can't remember that I had such issues last year
thanks
stefan

 

[d42jeep]

Maybe I'm doing something wrong? Here is a picture of the set so far with that ratchet in it.

 

[Zrexxer]

just to make it more complete, I did a 3D graphic reconstruction of how the ratchet might have been looking right after production.

I don't have anything to contribute about the ratchet, but I had to say Wow! Those graphics are amazing!

 

[nudelmannrichter]

Don't know normally the upload works with more than one pic.
Interesting set. Is this a military one? I own one of the middle sized hammers. My grandfather brought it back from the war and I'm still using it.
So if a military set your be grat to know which type, number whatever. Maybe I can track it down in a manual or so. Grat, thanks for your help!
stefan

 

[nudelmannrichter]

tks, Zrexxer! Sometimes a graphic or drawing can show more than a photo cause you can focus on important aspects

 

[d42jeep]

Stefan, if you go to the website G503.com and click on the tool forum link, you will be able to find more information about WWII tools. Perhaps too much information!
-Don

 

[drivesitfar]

NR: you might want to PM the mods of GJ to move this great thread to the new vintage tool forum where you might get even more information. i have a few of these old ratchets and tools and would sure like to have the time to learn and read more about them.

thanks for your work so far on this thread and if you need help moving it just PM me and i'll help you. the GJ mods information is a little hard to find on the main page, but it's there so you can PM them if you wish to move it.

 

[nudelmannrichter]

oh yes, that sounds like a good idea. No clue how to the mods doing this so your help is highly appreciated

 

[drivesitfar]

NR: i just PM'd a mod so should happen soon and if not please PM me. thanks

 

[SMKS]

These ratchets are still somewhat common in the U.S. I've run across them, and various other versions of them, a good number of times. I've bought and sold several.

 

[nudelmannrichter]

@drivesitfar: thank you. I think I will notice if it moves.

@D42Jeep: I joined the G503 forum and posted a similar request like here. Let's see what comes out. Thanks for the hint

@SMKS: yes of course. Its same her with vintage german ratchets. But US not to find over here and also not really collected.

 

[hemifalcon]

Very cool job you're doing over there in Germany.. Curious of what process you used to rid the old ratchet of the corrosion?

Also--you appear to have some amazing resources for design and photography--thanks for sharing your works!

 

[d42jeep]

Hi Stefan,
You're welcome. It looks like you are getting more good background information now. Here is the Army Motors cover from 1944 showing the toolbox that your ratchet might have come to Germany in.
-Don

 

[nudelmannrichter]

@hemifalcon: thank you!
for cleaning up such items I use different quite common techniques like electrolysis, oxalic acid, heat, mechanical methods like wire brush, sandblasting etc. It mostly depends on purpose and finish I want to get.
In this case I used heat from a welding torch, rinsing with cold water, some oil and very slow running wire brush. Took quite a while to get it "working" again but the result is pretty much worth it.

@Don: yes, really amazing what came out in a few hours there. Lists, manuals, numbers all things I wanted to know. Its kinda overwhelming and much more info than I'm able to process in short time. Oh thanks for the nice picture. I saw this in small size in the G503 forum, but this large one is really great for illustration. I think this ratchet will end up either in a Natter related museum or in our private reference collection depending on how museums guys behave. I prefer to put such items on display in a museum to share with the public but sometimes curators turn out to be quite unwieldy and if so I usually leave them alone.
best
stefan

 

[Bigplum]

I wonder if someone was using that handy concrete pad with a big hole in it to do oil changes and dropped his wrench ?

 

[nudelmannrichter]

look at the pic and help yourself