Compact Fluorescent Lamps in your garage?

[go4donuts]

I don't know about you gents, but I remain ambivalent about Compact Fluorescent Lamps (CFLs). I've known for some time that while CFLs are more energy efficient, and last longer (supposedly), they have a sinister side in that if you break one, you have a toxic waste situation on your hands.

I was just out in the garage, planning my lighting layout (I'm planning to soon do interior finishing on my new garage). There are several conventional bulb-type fixtures and I reached up to unscrew a CFL lamp. I grasped it by the spiral lamp part (which I now know is wrong) and tried to carefully turn it. It was kinda 'rusty' as bulbs in sockets often are, so I turned it slowly and carefully. Alas, it snapped and I felt a shower of particles on my head and shoulders.

I was aware that CFLs contain mercury which is a health hazard, so I immediately held my breath and left the garage and came to the computer to Google 'broken CFL'.

I won't repeat all of the information here, but I just thought I'd remind everyone that there is a toxic waste risk with broken CFLs and you might want to familiarize yourself with the procedures. For example you're supposed to leave the area immediately and get kids and pets out. You're supposed to allow time for toxic vapours to dissipate. You're not supposed to use a broom or vacuum to clean up the broken glass because they will be contaminated.

Another beef I have with CFLs is misleading marketing about their "long life". As a relatively new technology, they perhaps are still improving, but I know the CFLs I bought, say, five years ago did long live up to their advertised life-spans - not by a long shot. For some time now, whenever I install a CFL, I use a Sharpie and write the install date and the promised life span on the ceramic base. Not one bulb that I've owned has come anywhere close to living up to the advertised life. And these are bulbs used in very typical applications that fit well within the advertised specs on the package.

The first couple of CFLs I had were in living room lamps, and when they expired (before their advertised life) they popped, overheated, turned black and belched out some nasty smelling smoke. I don't think I'd want that in the baby's room.

 

[Jack Olsen]

There is a lot of misinformation about CFLs out there. Break a bulb? You get more mercury exposure from a bite of tuna.*

Pretty much my entire garage is CFLs, and I haven't had any issue with them in the six years I've been using them. I was able to get the color temperature I wanted with them and they keep getting cheaper. The only bulbs I'm annoyed with in my garage are the halogen ones I have above one bench -- which feel like they are constantly burning out. But the CFLs spoil you that way.

When I did my outdoor deck recently, I decided to do all LED lighting, since the price for that was coming down and those bulbs were dimmable. I haven't liked the LED bulbs nearly as much as the CFLs. When they dim, the color temperature changes, for example.

*A typical 6 oz. fish sandwich contains 48 micrograms of mercury (that’s 0.048 mg), according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. If you knock over a lamp and a CFL breaks, it will typically results in a dose of 0.07 micrograms (that’s 0.0007 mg) of mercury, according to scenarios assessed by the Maine Department of Environmental Protection.

 

[Biomed]

I was slow to jump on the CFL bandwagon. I had slight concerns about the potential for mercury exposure and did not like the CFL color, goofy bulb shapes, delay to turn on/come up to full brightness, performance in sub-freezing temperatures and inability to use base-up and in some enclosed fixtures. Despite these issues, CFL's do seem to be improving steadily.

Another better option may be LED bulbs. I recently purchased several Cree LED bulbs. I like the color of the Cree LED bulbs, they are virtually instant on at full brightness. The information I can find indicates LED bulbs work well in sub-freezing temperatures. I do not notice the level of heat generated with LED bulbs that I noticed with CFL's and believe they can be operated in enclosed fixtures. LED bulbs can be dimmed. Finally, an 800 lumen LED bulb only consumes 9.5 watts compared to 14 watts for a comparable CFL.

Cree has a Web site at http://www.creebulb.com and are being distributed by Home Depot.

 

[zcar751]

+1 on your research Mr. Olsen. As a safety professional I know there is an exposure concern but it is not a hazmat situation. If you have to clean up after one bulb a year no big deal get a whisk broom a damp sponge and where some rubber gloves. The vapors will be dissipated by the time you get back with the cleaning supplies. Older T-5 bulbs are the worst which is why they are phasing them out and replacing with cleaner more efficient choices. Basic rule of thumb larger bulb more mercury.

+1 on gofordounts observation of misleading claims of marketing. I to have noticed the life expectancy of the CFL to be less than advertised. If have been in my house now for 5 years and have had to replace about 25% of the CFL I put in with in the first year.

You should be responsible with the disposal of any mercury containing product as mercury is a heavy metal that will leach into ground water if improperly disposed of.

 

[nehog]

If you are worried about CFLs toxic properties if broken, then you must not allow standard florescent lighting, mercury lighting, HID lighting. In fact, you can only have either standard tungsten or LED lighting to keep things safe. Yes, you could go sodium, but break those and you have other risks which can be rather nasty (remember in chem class when the teacher dropped a tiny bit of sodium into water?)

 

[Gary S]

Jack is right. There is so much false information around about CFL and other florescent lights that it is almost funny how gullible people are.
The radiation from your cell phone is more dangerous than a broken CFL.
And, if you want a serious health risk, get in your car and drive.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I always chuckle when people bring up the mercury in a CFL. They generally fail to realize that there has been mercury in tube flourescents for many many years.

 

[Fishplate]

One thing rarely mentioned about CFLs (and fluorescents in general) is that they like to go on and stay on. If you have it in a fixture that gets repeatedly switched on and off, it won't last long. The CFL in my pantry lasted three months; the ones on the outside of my house have lasted almost ten years now.

 

[ShawnJ]

I use CFL's in my garage. I don't love them, but I don't hate them either. I find that I can't work in the garage right away, I have to turn on the lights and then come back in about 10 minutes so they'll be up to full brightness. I've had the same bulbs in the garage for about 6 years. Out of 14 bulbs, I've only burned out 2 so far.

Another question: What do you gents/ladies do with your burned out bulbs?

 

[rshadd]

When I built my garage in 2003 I used all CFL bulbs. 10 years later and I'm just starting to have them fail. The mercury content never bothered me, as there's far more nasty stuff in my shop.

 

[rsanter]

I use CFLs everywhere. I have some that are up to 10 years old and still going. Seems like they either last just a short time (Friday bulbs) or they go forever.

In the garage I prefer 4 ft florescent tubes, better light distribution.

Bob

 

[Highbeam]

I don't care about mercury. Really, it's not a factor. I am an energy saving nerd so my whole home is/was on CFL but what a crappy technology. They are slow slow slow to warm up and get bright and they burn out frequently. The real reason to hate CFL is that they ****.

I have broken into the LEDs now that they are only about twice as expensive as CFL. No more CFL will be bought, the CFL is now an outdated technology. LEDs instantly light up and are dimmable.

Time will tell how long the LED bulbs last but cold weather performance and instant on make them superior.

 

[nehog]

...
Another question: What do you gents/ladies do with your burned out bulbs?

We recycle around here (it's free) and both CFLs and regular florescent bulbs are handled the same way: I hand them to the attendant at the recycling center! (I also give him my HID bulbs since they can contain mercury.)

 

[driz]

Personally I go with the "more is better theory with light when I am wrenching. The best idea I ever saw was found driving by some guys garage one night that was absolutely radiating light all over the place. What he had is what I have now 175W Mercury vapor light. It's the closest thing to daylight you can get without going overboard . Just hang the exterior mount from the ceiling and put it on a switch. It does take a few seconds to come on but is separate from the regular lights. It lights up my garage like a sunny day

 

[theoldwizard1]

There is a lot of misinformation about CFLs out there. Break a bulb? You get more mercury exposure from a bite of tuna."
I have to remember that line for the next scare monger !

Mercury has always been used in florescent bulbs, and not long ago they reduced the amount previously used (cost saving and "environmental safer").

I don't know if it is the fixtures or the bulbs now a days, but I have notice "issues" with unscrewing Edison base bulbs that are used outdoors. I now apply silicon dielectric grease on the threads of all bulbs used outdoors. No more issues.

 

[randyny]

"The real reason to hate CFL is that they ****."

True words that.

The poor light output as it warms up is terrible. Both from a performance angle and as user experience. I also question whether they put out the same amount of light. I'd say 80% is more like it. I've been dating each bulb I put in because I had the same bulb life concerns. Two years is what I'm getting on typical bulbs. Thats terrible.

I had tried a 40 dollar LED flood bulb at one point but the light output sucked and was very directional.

Fast forward to today, and I want to give Cree bulbs my highest praise. They are bright, normal bulb profile, instant on, full bright immediately, are not affected by on/off cycles, use half as much electricity as cfls, dimmable, and are cool to the touch. Granted, life still has to be proven but based on these latest versions I am sold. They also put out, to my eyes at least, MORE light than the equivalent incandescents. 60 watts are replacing 75 watt halogens. 40 watters are replacing 60 watt incandescents.

For the greatest comparison, put one in a field of bulbs connected by one switch, like the three floods in my kitchen. The performance is soooo good, I want to shout from the mountaintop. CFLs ****; always have.

 

[sands35]

So...cfl won't work upside down/base up?
3K connection...can't do research. So much bullcrap/gullibility here to believe that cfl won't work upside down..,.

Yes, they work "upside down".

 

[Outlander]

There is a lot of misinformation about CFLs out there. Break a bulb? You get more mercury exposure from a bite of tuna.*

Pretty much my entire garage is CFLs, and I haven't had any issue with them in the six years I've been using them. I was able to get the color temperature I wanted with them and they keep getting cheaper. The only bulbs I'm annoyed with in my garage are the halogen ones I have above one bench -- which feel like they are constantly burning out. But the CFLs spoil you that way.

When I did my outdoor deck recently, I decided to do all LED lighting, since the price for that was coming down and those bulbs were dimmable. I haven't liked the LED bulbs nearly as much as the CFLs. When they dim, the color temperature changes, for example.

*A typical 6 oz. fish sandwich contains 48 micrograms of mercury (that’s 0.048 mg), according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. If you knock over a lamp and a CFL breaks, it will typically results in a dose of 0.07 micrograms (that’s 0.0007 mg) of mercury, according to scenarios assessed by the Maine Department of Environmental Protection.

Thanks Jack. I hate fish sandwiches and you have confirmed it is for good reason! I'll tell my wife "GJ guy tells me fish sandwiches have 70 times the mercury of a CFL bulb. You tryin' to kill me?"

Back on track. Other than swinging a 2x4 and smashing the CFLs, I have not had any problems in my garage. I have a couple of 200w equivalents.

 

[Thumper68]

I have most of the small lights in the shop switched over to cfl's and I love them. The best part for me is the drop light, it doesn't get hot any more, I can't count the number of times I have burnt myself on that damn thing.

 

[Biomed]

So...cfl won't work upside down/base up?
3K connection...can't do research. So much bullcrap/gullibility here to believe that cfl won't work upside down..,.

CFL's will WORK upside down but they won't LAST upside down. Remember the heat rises thing from school? Believe that is the issue. Heat and electronics (in the base of the CFL) are not friends.

Your mileage might vary. Not ALL CFL manufacturers have a disclaimer about using CFL's in a base up configuration.

 

[cglasgow]

CFL's will WORK upside down but they won't LAST upside down. Remember the heat rises thing from school? Believe that is the issue. Heat and electronics (in the base of the CFL) are not friends.

I've got 6 100w-equivalent CFLs in barn light fixtures (so the bulbs are upside down) in my garage that I installed in 2007 when I built the garage. I haven't had to replace one yet.

So they can last at least 6 years of what I'd call "typical homeowner workshop" usage upside down.

 

[cglasgow]

Another question: What do you gents/ladies do with your burned out bulbs?

There's a recycling box for them at Home Depot.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

I learned the hard way to always take the new cfl lamp out of the box and then use the box to slip over the dead lamp and twist it out, if it breaks, the glass is contained and there is no skin contact. Screw the mercury, I have enough paint and chemicals fumes in me that I probably glow in the dark. Those little glass slivers in the fingers hurt.

 

[Kevin C]

CFL's typically don't have end of lamp life detection circuits. When the lamp its self hits the end, often times the drive circuit goes out. Since its a disposable unit, there is no reason to have any protection. There have been very rare cases of this causing a problem, that design was recalled.

Worse case is you get some smoke.

On a standard florescent the ballasts have protection circuits, since you don't want to swap them out every time you lose a tube.

Initially, some CFL's / some brands were not super reliable. Brand matters and all have gotten better. Some type designed for closed fixtures ( including flood lights) use a higher temperature amalgam. That extends the warm-up time to minutes. Most are usable in less than a second and start out pretty bright.

Better bulbs provide better color accuracy. They can easily be as good as a standard linear bulb. The only thing you wont get in a CFL is power factor correction. Not a lot of room for those circuits, and its not considered as important. What is important is the huge jump in efficiency you get when you get rid of filament type bulbs.

That's my take...

BTW... It helps to look for bulbs with an energy star rating. That helps to weed out low quality products.

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=find_a_product.showProductGroup&pgw_code=LB


Anything electrical should be UL / NRTL (nationally recognized test lab) rated. https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/

 

[ShawnJ]

There's a recycling box for them at Home Depot.

Thanks. I'll hang on to my bulbs for the next time I'm off to HD. (The nearest HD is 2 hours away, so I don't go there often.)

My local recycling depot will not touch them.

 

[cglasgow]

Thanks. I'll hang on to my bulbs for the next time I'm off to HD. (The nearest HD is 2 hours away, so I don't go there often.)

My local recycling depot will not touch them.

Check around -- there may be places closer to you. I use the HD box (not often -- it's not often that I have to dispose of one) because HD is 3 miles from me. I think the Lowes here takes them as well. We've got a solid waste drop-off/recycling center near here but they won't take them. I'd have to drive to the haz-mat disposal site. HD is a lot easier! ;-) But it's no different than getting rid of used motor oil. The waste center won't take it either but Advance Auto does....

 

[ddawg16]

The CFL's in my garage (16 of them in recessed cans) are going on 5 years now of operation...haven't lost one yet.

In fact, I have replaced exactly 3 CFL's in the 12 years I have been using them.

As for mercury....after the bulb has been in operation for awhile, all of the mercury is absorbed into the phosphor coating...so when one breaks, there is no 'toxic' vapor cloud that is going to kill you.

The 'slow start' that some complain about is a result of the amount of mercury being reduced. I have 3 batches of bulbs...some from about 8 years ago...instant on...some from about 5 years ago (got them for $1/each at Costco)...those have about a 1 min warm up time...and then the latest batch...instant on...I guess they got the warm up issue fixed.

All told I must have about 30 CFL lamps in my house and garage...the only incandescent bulb is in the oven...I replaced the Fridge incan with an LED.

I have another LED bulb I'm testing...but like all the other LED bulbs...they have one little feature I don't care for....there is about a 1-2 second delay from the time you hit the switch until the bulb comes on.

One other note about CFL's....even with the mercury in them....they still put less mercury in the atmosphere than an incandescent bulb. If your on the East coast where most of the power is from coal...more mercury is put into the air to produce electricity to light an incan bulb than the total for a CFL.

Oh, and one other thing....even at $0.50/ea for a cheap incand bulb....your still going to spend a lot more on bulbs than with a CFL....I can buy 60w equiv CFL's for about $1.50 all day long....it's going to take at least 10 or more incand to last as long as the one CFL....so the CFL is $3.50 cheaper just in bulb cost...electricity? 1/5th the cost.

Not to mention my time saved not having to change bulbs all the time.

BTW....mythbusters did a test on CFL's vs incand with the freq on/off testing...CFL's far out lived incand.