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Lighting suggestions for 6,000 sq ft barn?

Fifty

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Apr 15, 2013
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Yamhill, OR
I just signed the lease on a new (to me) 6,000 square foot shop/barn for my business. It's definitely going to need some work. I really want to get some good lighting going in the main area, which is currently dark. The bay down the middle is approximately 30'x100' and 18 feet tall. It currently has some old metal halide lights, but only one of them works. It also buzzes like a bee hive and drives me crazy.

So the question is, what would be the best lighting here, on a budget? Would the ceiling be too tall for T8 fluorescents? I don't really want to invest in T5. Would I be better off with some high bay MH lights like what is there now? Would 1000w each be too much?

I suppose I need to put them on several different switches so that I don't have to burn 5-10 kilowatts at a time. I also have a bunch of smaller work areas, and an upstairs area, which will have lesser lighting for smaller projects and storage. The current electrical system is very old, hacked up, and dangerous, so I will be running new wires to the breaker box for this.

Picture is crappy, I'll try to get some better ones soon.

 
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ishiboo

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What will you be doing? With the open black space above the lights and the walls/etc. being what they are, it would take a ton of light to light "properly".

I would go with cheap T8 shop lights - you're going to need a lot of them. They will do okay at 18'.

Metal halide you can occasionally find on Craigslist for cheap, if you like the color that's an option. But it will be pricey, and again you'll need a lot if this is work areas and not simply storage. I would go with low bay lights as it's definitely a low bay, and you really need it spread out a bit... unless you have very focused areas to light with the MH.
 

Norcal

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Buying used fixtures from lighting retrofits may be a good choice, if you don't have a seller that wants new prices for them, just make sure of the voltage, 277V single voltage fixtures are scrap metal IMO.
 

driz

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May 22, 2008
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How about a couple Mercury Vapor 175 watt yard lights? I have one in my garage at 10' and love it. It does buzz a bit though but not so much once warmed up. Depending on what you are doing it is nice greenish light which is great for working on cars, machinery ect IMHO. I just mounted mine on a ceiling truss bottom much like you would outdoors. Mine is on a simple switch and 12/2 wire. Cheap and easy.l
 
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Fifty

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Apr 15, 2013
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Yamhill, OR
How long is the lease?
5 years.

What will you be doing? With the open black space above the lights and the walls/etc. being what they are, it would take a ton of light to light "properly".
I sell vintage outboard motor parts. Most of my work is taking apart old outboards and cleaning/refurbishing all the parts. I agree, there is just going to be a big dark hole in there. I'm going to try and put some white paint on every surface I can. What if I hung fluorescent lights down from the ceiling a ways, maybe around 12'? I don't really need the height. Would lowering them a few feet be worth the trouble?

I would really like it if the whole thing was lit up like a paint booth, but realistically, I could never afford to run all that. My shop now is lit with T8s at less than .5 watts/square foot and it drives me crazy. Always lots of shadows, I have to use a flashlight inside the shop all the time.
 

2ManyProjects

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Jul 18, 2013
Messages
757
I just signed the lease on a new (to me) 6,000 square foot shop/barn for my business. It's definitely going to need some work. I really want to get some good lighting going in the main area, which is currently dark. The bay down the middle is approximately 30'x100' and 18 feet tall. It currently has some old metal halide lights, but only one of them works. It also buzzes like a bee hive and drives me crazy.

So the question is, what would be the best lighting here, on a budget? Would the ceiling be too tall for T8 fluorescents? I don't really want to invest in T5. Would I be better off with some high bay MH lights like what is there now? Would 1000w each be too much?

With that much ceiling height (and, presumably, a similar mounting height for the fixtures), the type of fixture will be more important that the type of light source, per se. It's all about the reflector and the focusing device(s), not what originally makes the light. For that application, you want something designated as a "High Bay" fixture. Such fixtures are available using all sorts of light sources: T5, T8, MH, even CFL (tho' not as commonly). They can also be rather pricey; but they don't necessarily have to be.

I suppose I need to put them on several different switches so that I don't have to burn 5-10 kilowatts at a time.

That's (almost) always a good idea. And you probably ought to use more banks/switches than you (now) think you need. This is something of a stab in the dark (NPI); but with no other information to go on, I'd suggest at least three banks for the general-purpose lighting of the main area: one with a minimal number of fixtures, to be used as your low-level "walk through" lighting, a second bank with about 1/3 of whatever is left, and a third bank with the other two-thirds. This will yield at least four different selectable brightness levels, yet still retain semi-even illumination at all times, assuming you pay attention to the spacing between each same-bank fixture as you wire things up. Some larger fixtures (such as some six- and eight-tube fluorescents) are already set up to be wired as two banks; but they generally split them up into two same-size banks, so you'll still need to get a bit creative if you want to take the 1/3 vs. 2/3 approach.

I also have a bunch of smaller work areas, and an upstairs area, which will have lesser lighting for smaller projects and storage.

Those areas will, of course, require separate solutions.

The current electrical system is very old, hacked up, and dangerous, so I will be running new wires to the breaker box for this.

How is the breaker panel itself? And does it (and the incoming service) have sufficient capacity for everything you're going to want to do (including tools & machinery, in addition to the lighting)?


What will you be doing? With the open black space above the lights and the walls/etc. being what they are, it would take a ton of light to light "properly".

Not necessarily. As noted above, it all depends on the TYPE of fixture, and how well it directs its output downward, as opposed to letting it scatter everywhere.

I would go with cheap T8 shop lights - you're going to need a lot of them. They will do okay at 18'.

I'd expect those to do better than open-tube strip lights, but not as well as a fixture expressly designed for such mounting heights.

I would go with low bay lights as it's definitely a low bay, and you really need it spread out a bit...

You've got that backwards.

"High Bay" denotes a mounting height above about 12 (sometimes 15) feet; "Low Bay" denotes lower mounting heights (typically 8-10 feet).



Can you get (even partial) credit against the rent for leasehold improvements?

I sell vintage outboard motor parts. Most of my work is taking apart old outboards and cleaning/refurbishing all the parts. I agree, there is just going to be a big dark hole in there. I'm going to try and put some white paint on every surface I can. What if I hung fluorescent lights down from the ceiling a ways, maybe around 12'? I don't really need the height. Would lowering them a few feet be worth the trouble?

Depends on how much trouble you're talking about. The lower the fixture, the more the fixture will need to disperse its output over a wider area. That in turn will make it depend more on the reflectivity of the surrounding surfaces (i.e., that white paint) to produce relatively even, shadowless, illumination. With little (or no) surrounding surfaces to paint, this approach tends to be ineffective.

I would really like it if the whole thing was lit up like a paint booth, but realistically, I could never afford to run all that. My shop now is lit with T8s at less than .5 watts/square foot and it drives me crazy. Always lots of shadows, I have to use a flashlight inside the shop all the time.

With the staggered-brightness approach I outlined above, you can have the best of both worlds -- or at least, as close to it as practically achievable.

 
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Fifty

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How is the breaker panel itself? And does it (and the incoming service) have sufficient capacity for everything you're going to want to do (including tools & machinery, in addition to the lighting)?
It's pretty scary looking. I haven't really been able to explore much inside yet to see what is going on, but there is remnants of old knob and tube wiring and a fuse box. The meter box on the outside looks new-ish. I won't need a ton of power for tools, and there is already a giant hardwired air compressor probably in the 10hp range.

Can you get (even partial) credit against the rent for leasehold improvements?
Probably some. My new landlord is a very nice old man (who built this place) and he seems really flexible. I practically stole the place, and then he asked me for a $20 deposit when I expected $2,000, so I'm happy to pay for some small improvements.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm so excited about the new place, but I don't get to move in until the 10th. I have dreamed about having this barn for the last 30 years!:shocking::thumbup:
 

2ManyProjects

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How is the breaker panel itself? And does it (and the incoming service) have sufficient capacity for everything you're going to want to do (including tools & machinery, in addition to the lighting)?

It's pretty scary looking. I haven't really been able to explore much inside yet to see what is going on, but there is remnants of old knob and tube wiring and a fuse box.

OUCH!

I'm now wagering that this is a complete "rip everything out and start over" job.

The meter box on the outside looks new-ish. I won't need a ton of power for tools, and there is already a giant hardwired air compressor probably in the 10hp range.

Given that this is (apparently) a commercial building, this MIGHT not apply; but the knob & tube wiring and fuses imply a pretty meager electrical service, perhaps as little as 30-60A total.

I think your next call ought to be to the local PoCo, to see what (they think) your electrical service really is. Given your lack of heavy machinery, if it is at least 100A, and reasonably modern, you MIGHT be able to leave that part intact. OTOH, if its in the 100-200A range, I seriously doubt they'd object to upgrading it to at least the 200A level, probably (at least mostly) at their expense. This could also be a good lead-in for "why" you need to upgrade the building's service panel and interior wiring, when it comes time to pass all this by your landlord.

Can you get (even partial) credit against the rent for leasehold improvements?

Probably some. My new landlord is a very nice old man (who built this place) and he seems really flexible. I practically stole the place, and then he asked me for a $20 deposit when I expected $2,000, so I'm happy to pay for some small improvements.

That is EXCELLENT news. Being able to do business with someone who behaves like that and has that sort of attitude in general is worth its weight in gold in countless ways that you cannot even imagine ahead of time. So do NOT do anything to ruin that relationship, which you already know (or at least hope) will last at least five years. That doesn't mean don't approach him with a proposal to upgrade the electrical, partially on his nickel; but it does mean to be flexible and accommodating during any negotiations. I would suggest that you do all of the leg-work FIRST, so that you can subsequently present a coherent well-defined plan to him, along with reasonably accurate projected costs. If, along the way, you discover that ANYTHING in the current systen is not up to code, you can probably also (gently) make the point that he really needs to fix that in order to be legally rent the place out. Then it just becomes a matter of how much of the costs he's willing to reimburse you for, and getting his "OK" -- in other words, make it easy for him to say "Yes".

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm so excited about the new place, but I don't get to move in until the 10th. I have dreamed about having this barn for the last 30 years!:shocking::thumbup:

Good luck!

 
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Charles (in GA)

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Generally any permanent fixtures you install must remain when you leave. Depending on how long you stay and how much you want to spend (and I realize many of these expenses will be tax deductions) you may want to use plug in, chain hung fixtures you can remove and take with you.

In any case, plan on running all new circuits for your lighting and don't attempt to connect to anything existing, it will only cause problems.

You are gonna need a lot of light in there, as you are going to have a lot of "cave effect" from the open, dark areas above.

Charles
 

CNGsaves

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That sure sounds like awesome GIANT barn that you've finally got access. Sounds like my grandpa's big barn on farm . . . but BIGGER! Meter on my grandpa's property has fuse tubes at main shutoff, but otherwise wiring is well built for the 1950's.

Sparky's on GJ likely will want pics of electrical panel of what power you can really support. Hope you've got "offset clause" built into lease where your dollars invested in permanent wiring and fixtures is deducted from your rent.

Search CL or Ebay to get more "barn lights" or if you're lucky can stumble across a gymnasium being remodeled / torn down.

Also more pics of outside to show overall size of that beheamouth !! ;)
 
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Fifty

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Maybe windows or sky lights
Yeah, there's already a few and it's really nice to be able to see inside without the lights on. There are 3 floors :)shocking:) so skylights won't work.

Search CL or Ebay to get more "barn lights" or if you're lucky can stumble across a gymnasium being remodeled / torn down.

Also more pics of outside to show overall size of that beheamouth !! ;)
Yeah, it seems like there are a lot of those metal halide lights ending up on CL after places upgrade to fluorescent. Some of the upper floors and rooms have fluorescent lights, I'm not sure if they work or not.

The only pics I have right now of the outside are from Google street view, but they are pretty recent.
 

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70C-10

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Fifty I grabbed several metal halide lights my work was throwing out. My plan is to gut the lights, install a $2.00 porcelain fixture & $9.00 200w CFL.
 
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Fifty

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Fifty I grabbed several metal halide lights my work was throwing out. My plan is to gut the lights, install a $2.00 porcelain fixture & $9.00 200w CFL.

That would be a great use for the ones I already have hanging in there, for a lower level. If I use MH for the bright lights I definitely want some fluorescents that don't have to warm up.
 
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