Helicoil Kits and Questions...

[moparfreak]

So I'm rebuilding a transmission and have a few threads to repair in the case. I need a 1/4-20, 5/16-18, and 7/16-14 helicoil kit to put in new threads.

I went to the auto parts store and each of the kits were 20 bucks...all they had was one tap, a few of the thread inserts, and a cheap plastic tool to screw in the inserts.

Is there a way to just buy the thread inserts and plastic tools separately? Are the taps they use specific for those inserts, or are they standard taps that you would find in any tap set(which i own).

I just don't want to spend 60 bucks to repair a few threads.

Thanks,
Adam

 

[Kevin54]

Taps are specific to the Heli-coil. The inserts can be bought seperately as can the insert tools. BUT....they are expensive. The best bet would be to find a machine shop and ask if they can do it for you. Either way it is going to cost, but a machine shop doing it would be considerably cheaper. I purchase Steel threaded inserts, taps, and inserters at work so I know what they can run. What you might want to do also is check with AutoZone as I guess they now rent out tools. Or check your local rental store and see if the repair area that repairs the equipment ever Helicoils stripped out threads. There should also be some machine shops around if you ask different people that gets things fabbed up.

Kevin

 

[GearHead_1]

Unfortunately it's kind of a racket. You need the specialized taps in order for the Helicoil to work. Some of the kits provide not only the installer tool but the correct size drill bit for the tap. There are other brands that do the same thing as Helicoil but I've found the price to be similar. I love Helicoil, they've save my bacon a number of times.

 

[Baketech]

You can buy the inserts, taps and tools ala carte from places like McMaster Carr...or your local supply house for less than the retail kits....

 

[moparfreak]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I found someone selling a crapload of helicoil kits on ebay for $10 each, plus $10 for shipping. So, at least i'll save 20 bucks. that's 20 dollars that goes right back into the car!

Adam

 

[rhandwor]

http://www.autopart.com/tools/toolsmain/search/search.asp Use right side search and type in thread repair. As shipping is a big cost on ebay do a search in the stores. This autopart location is a reasonable priced supplier.

 

[Northstar9126]

While wandering through Harbor Freight a while ago, I noticed that they carry "Thread Repair Kits". I think that they cost $50 or $60. Has anybody here had any experience with them? Personally I would have to see some people report success with them before I used them in anything that I cared about.

 

[goodfellow]

Don't forget HF -- they are expanding their lines with more quality solutions and they are less expensive than most suppliers

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=thread+repair

I've used the metric kit on my bike --

 

[Uncle Buck]

Don't forget HF -- they are expanding their lines with more quality solutions and they are less expensive than most suppliers

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=thread+repair

I've used the metric kit on my bike --

I am willing to buy many things from HF but I doubt I will ever take a chance on their thread repair stuff. Don't get me wrong, the kits look very nice and I admit, for a moment I might be tempted. However, I then began to think of almost every time I needed to use a Heli Coil it was for an application I really could take absolutely no chance of a screwup. (you know, one of those hold yer mouth just right and don't breath type applications) Also, I have always held off buying things like drill bits and taps or the like from them. Now a ratchet, yea I will take that chance.

 

[nissan_crawler]

timesert kicks heli-coils ****

 

[Danglerb]

Timeserts here as well.

 

[goodfellow]

I am willing to buy many things from HF but I doubt I will ever take a chance on their thread repair stuff. Don't get me wrong, the kits look very nice and I admit, for a moment I might be tempted. However, I then began to think of almost every time I needed to use a Heli Coil it was for an application I really could take absolutely no chance of a screwup. (you know, one of those hold yer mouth just right and don't breath type applications) Also, I have always held off buying things like drill bits and taps or the like from them. Now a ratchet, yea I will take that chance.

Yeah, I know where you're coming from, and can see your point. Like most things though, most of the heli-coil type thread repair solutions are now imports.

For real secure solutions (i.e. going beyond heli-coil) I use Tridair (now ALCOA) Keenserts. They're expensive, but they will stay put under heavy stress conditions.

EDIT: To the OP -- the guys are right. For high stress applications it's better to go with something like this ...

 

[Uncle Buck]

timesert kicks heli-coils ****

Never heard of them, but I am a pencil pusher by day, so I will take your word for it. I was only aware of Heli-Coil. So the other brand would be available at say MCS or the like?

 

[dxdexter]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I found someone selling a crapload of helicoil kits on ebay for $10 each, plus $10 for shipping. So, at least i'll save 20 bucks. that's 20 dollars that goes right back into the car!

Adam

Be careful, I have noticed that many of the cheaper Ebay Helicoil kits aren't actually Helicoil, but knock-off's. They just use the name to get hits (keyword spamming).

I bought a Helicoil 1/4"-20 kit that had a tap, steel insert tool and 12 inserts for $26CAD and installed three of them in an aluminum casting in a matter of several minutes. They saved me a bundle. Well worth the cost.

 

[Blwnsln]

Time certs are the way to go by far, heil coil's are a thing of the past. With time cert you have the abality to take the bolt in and out multiple times. If any one needs some demo pics let me know.

On a side note I still stock heil coil inserts for those stuborn people lol

And I have full stock on just about every Time cert Kit

 

[Elroy]

Time certs are the way to go by far, heil coil's are a thing of the past.

There are many other thread repair systems besides Heli-Coils and Time Certs. The "expansion" feature on the last few threads of the time certs are their real claim to fame. This is an effective anchoring method that locks the insets into the parent part. This also tightens up the last few threads on the bolt at the bottom of the inset and makes the repair feel artificially tighter then it really is.

Now lets all be fair, there are a few draw backs to the great all mighty time cert. First off, they require a counter bore to properly accept the insert. In addition, the major diameter of the required tap is larger than a Heli-Coil. In thin wall applications a Heli-Coil may actually be a superior repair.

The magic installation tool for a Heli-Coil is actually nothing special. Elroy posts this detail as a service to the board. A bench grinder will make a common bolt into the special tool.

On a side note I still stock heil coil inserts for those stuborn people

Some people may actually find the Heli-Coil superior to the time cert in some applications. It may well pay to be stubborn and well informed. Time certs are fine and in many applications are a better solution than the time honored Heli-Coil. But they are NOT superior in every repair.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Time certs are the way to go by far, heil coil's are a thing of the past. With time cert you have the abality to take the bolt in and out multiple times. If any one needs some demo pics let me know.

On a side note I still stock heil coil inserts for those stuborn people lol

And I have full stock on just about every Time cert Kit

Well it sounds like I am getting ready to learn something new. From what you are saying above you cannot install and remove a bolt/spark plug etc from a Heli-Coil repeated times after it has been installed if I read your post right. I have used HC around a half dozen times with several being spark plug applications.

I do not recall anything about not being able to install and remove the bolt/plug repeatedly after installing the HC? I must be misunderstanding what you are saying, cause the HC does nothing more than restore the thread to 100%, where does HC prevent the removal of a bolt installed in the HC?

BTW, Not knocking the other brand you speak of, but I have had a different understanding of how the HC performs.

 

[Uncle Buck]

The "expansion" feature on the last few threads of the time certs are their real claim to fame. This is an effective anchoring method that locks the insets into the parent part. This also tightens up the last few threads on the bolt at the bottom of the inset and makes the repair feel artificially tighter then it really is.

Actually the last HC I used was for a spark plug, and the HC kit had a small punch about 5/8" diameter with a shoulder on it that you were to rap the outboard end of the HC with which disturbed the HC enough to set or anchor it to the hole you had just mounted it in. This just sounds like a different twist on the anchoring system Elroy described above. So if this is true, one would have nothing over the other as far as the securing of the thread repair to the hole goes.

 

[oldtools]

The aerospace industry use keensert alot. You can get them in light duty, heavy duty, and super heavy duty. They are mainly used in aluminum parts. Helicoil tends to back out when removing the fasterner.

 

[KenS]

This video showing installation of a TimeSert helps explain why Helicoils sometimes fail to stay anchored:

 

[Merkava_4]

This video showing installation of a TimeSert helps explain why Helicoils sometimes fail to stay anchored:

I watched and counted how many times he backed out while cutting those threads .... he only backed out twice!! I back out a quarter turn after each half turn.

 

[tatra]

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgu...rts&start=18&ndsp=18&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N

we use these now and are super easy........drill the hole and drinve in with impact and done.............

 

[nissan_crawler]

Well it sounds like I am getting ready to learn something new. From what you are saying above you cannot install and remove a bolt/spark plug etc from a Heli-Coil repeated times after it has been installed if I read your post right. I have used HC around a half dozen times with several being spark plug applications.

I do not recall anything about not being able to install and remove the bolt/plug repeatedly after installing the HC? I must be misunderstanding what you are saying, cause the HC does nothing more than restore the thread to 100%, where does HC prevent the removal of a bolt installed in the HC?

BTW, Not knocking the other brand you speak of, but I have had a different understanding of how the HC performs.

Having replaced thousands of helicoils, they can back out, will eventually back out, will gall up what you're trying to install, and are a royal pain in the **** to remove once that happens sometimes. It gets even better if they partly unspiral, you don't catch it, and try to run a bolt/screw in and get it jammed. Then you have to drill down through both of them, JUST enough to cut most of the helicoil, but not the part it's threaded in, then use a pick to fish the rest of it. It's great fun.

Every time I have to put a screw/bolt in a helicoil in a jet, it gets a liberal amount of anti-seize, bo-lube, etc.

Elroy does have a point about thin-wall applications, but in every case where a time-sert WILL fit, there's no way in hell I would use a heli-coil.

 

[eschoendorff]

I watched and counted how many times he backed out while cutting those threads .... he only backed out twice!! I back out a quarter turn after each half turn.

Same here... and never had a problem.

 

[PAToyota]

Another option is the Full-Torque system.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Having replaced thousands of helicoils, they can back out, will eventually back out, will gall up what you're trying to install, and are a royal pain in the **** to remove once that happens sometimes. It gets even better if they partly unspiral, you don't catch it, and try to run a bolt/screw in and get it jammed. Then you have to drill down through both of them, JUST enough to cut most of the helicoil, but not the part it's threaded in, then use a pick to fish the rest of it. It's great fun.

Every time I have to put a screw/bolt in a helicoil in a jet, it gets a liberal amount of anti-seize, bo-lube, etc.

Elroy does have a point about thin-wall applications, but in every case where a time-sert WILL fit, there's no way in hell I would use a heli-coil.

Thank you for sharing your experiences with the HC, as I said before I have used HC only a handfull of times, and the other brands mentioned not at all so I really know just enough to be dangerous. It's great to hear from someone heavily experienced with several other brands than HC.

So cost wise how would these other brands mentioned stack up against the Heli coil? And again, where would a guy go to get them, I suspect they are not as easily found as HC. Would Grainger or say McMaster Carr offer these other brands spoken of ?

 

[tatra]

not sure of the cost of the ones i posted, but no need for anything but the correct size drill bit and these are common sizes...........we also use gr. 8 bolts but have used 5's in the past with no problem when driving them in.........in my application , they are used for repairing ex. man. bolt holes.........nasty enviroment and the perfect repair as never seen them back out in service or during teardown..................

 

[goodfellow]

Thank you for sharing your experiences with the HC, as I said before I have used HC only a handfull of times, and the other brands mentioned not at all so I really know just enough to be dangerous. It's great to hear from someone heavily experienced with several other brands than HC.

So cost wise how would these other brands mentioned stack up against the Heli coil? And again, where would a guy go to get them, I suspect they are not as easily found as HC. Would Grainger or say McMaster Carr offer these other brands spoken of ?

Here is a local distributor. Keenserts cost about 10x more than helicoil solutions, but as was said before, it's a high stress application. They have some good info in PDF format --

http://mdmetric.com/prod/insert/keenserts.htm

 

[janarvae]

The magic installation tool for a Heli-Coil is actually nothing special. Elroy posts this detail as a service to the board. A bench grinder will make a common bolt into the special tool.

- I have also made a helicoil removal tool (only works when the tang is still installed). I simply made the inverse of the installation tool so that it would grip the tang and allow removal of the heli-coil should you have failed to drill or tap a blind hole to the proper depth.

I used the 3/8, 7/16, and 1/2 helicoils to repair the intake manifold to cylinder head threads. They worked very well and were relatively simple for a first-timer. However, I have read about the advantages of Time or Keen-Serts. Heli-coils were more readily available to me though. I was able to buy the inserts and taps at Advance Auto, NAPA, CarQuest, and Ace Hardware. I could not find Time-Serts at any of those locations.

 

[russlaferrera]

The aerospace industry use keensert alot. You can get them in light duty, heavy duty, and super heavy duty. They are mainly used in aluminum parts. Helicoil tends to back out when removing the fasterner.

IMO Keenserts are better for most applications because you do not need to buy a special tap. You use the next size up.

 

[billw9]

I have used both Helicoil and Keensert. The others mentioned I have not heard of. Helicoils in my experience stand up better in some metals than others.

 

[banditbigdog]

I've used a couple of the different types of thread repair method's discussed and prefer Heli-Coil.
Probably installed 75-100 in the last 20+ years.
Here's what works for me:

* drill hole using supplied helicoil drill bit.

* tap hole with helicoil tap.

* clean out hole with acetone and blow out with compressed air.

* apply blue loctite to threaded hole, ( red loctite probably would work too, I just use blue for some reason).

* install helicoil.

* blow out hole / loctite with compressed air, break off coil tang with supplied rod (enough loctite will remain in place between helicoil and hole threads to prevent coil from backing out down the road).

* wait 10 minutes and reassemble whatever it is your trying to fix.

 

[Toolhorder]

There are many other thread repair systems besides Heli-Coils and Time Certs. The "expansion" feature on the last few threads of the time certs are their real claim to fame. This is an effective anchoring method that locks the insets into the parent part. This also tightens up the last few threads on the bolt at the bottom of the inset and makes the repair feel artificially tighter then it really is.

Now lets all be fair, there are a few draw backs to the great all mighty time cert. First off, they require a counter bore to properly accept the insert. In addition, the major diameter of the required tap is larger than a Heli-Coil. In thin wall applications a Heli-Coil may actually be a superior repair.

The magic installation tool for a Heli-Coil is actually nothing special. Elroy posts this detail as a service to the board. A bench grinder will make a common bolt into the special tool.



Some people may actually find the Heli-Coil superior to the time cert in some applications. It may well pay to be stubborn and well informed. Time certs are fine and in many applications are a better solution than the time honored Heli-Coil. But they are NOT superior in every repair.

I don't see counter boring as a downside. It takes a few seconds to do... I'd rather use a time sert over any heli coil. The time sert is a solid one piece design unlike the heli-coil. Just my opinion.


Problem with time serts is nobody has them in stock. I'm in the capitiol of California and needed one to repair an aluminium oil pan a couple weeks ago and I called everywhere,
Autozone, "What's that? Never heard of it"
Orielly's, "Same as above, we got perma coils"(knockoff heli-coils)
Carquest, "That like a Heli coil? I can order one probably"
Fastenal, "Never heard of it, can probably order one though"
Grainger, "Same as above"
Napa, "What's that? Worked here 20 yrs, never heard of it"

Ended up borrowing the local Honda dealer's kit because I'm friends with the manager there and they gave me an insert. Found a source from that dealer to order them. Have to order $300 worth at once though. Anyone down for a group buy? Need to order a kit for Toyota 22RE exhaust studs...