12/2 running to attic A/C unit - Romex gets warm

[2ManyProjects]

Worth showing - this is how they got the AC piping and romex down the side of the house.

Yikes!

If that is a gutter down spout,

Sure looks like it.

I gotta say that thats the most ghetto raceway Ive seen for an AC condenser.

Really! I'd want to re-do that (probably with something like 2-inch PVC conduit; maybe bigger if the refrigerant lines are insulated, or maybe run the electrical and ref. lines separately) just for aesthetic reasons, notwithstanding any functional issues.

As far as the wire path- yes u could use a junction box or run liquid tight down the wall if u dont mind looking at it!

Rigid PVC is commonly (Lowe's, etc.) available in sizes up to at least two inches; not sure about larger stuff, but I'd be surprised if it couldn't be found. And it's paintable to match the siding, if you're compulsive about that sort of thing.

 

[5mall5nail5]

Yikes!



Sure looks like it.



Really! I'd want to re-do that (probably with something like 2-inch PVC conduit; maybe bigger if the refrigerant lines are insulated, or maybe run the electrical and ref. lines separately) just for aesthetic reasons, notwithstanding any functional issues.



Rigid PVC is commonly (Lowe's, etc.) available in sizes up to at least two inches; not sure about larger stuff, but I'd be surprised if it couldn't be found. And it's paintable to match the siding, if you're compulsive about that sort of thing.

Yeah I am going to run the power feed separate. I have 1/2" grey PVC to run... just can't reach the attic from the ground.

 

[Aceman]

Yeah I am going to run the power feed separate. I have 1/2" grey PVC to run... just can't reach the attic from the ground.

You need to use UF cable if your going to be running it outside. You can only use NM if your coming through the wall of the house directly into the back of the AC disconnect.

Also, if you're going to sleeve the cable, I'd use a minimum of 3/4" pvc.

Nobody uses 1/2" pvc or rigid unless they have too!

 

[CNGsaves]

Yikes on the "electrocution gutter" that prior owner had on the exterior of house !!

Sure hope you got MONEY in house closing (ie paid by Prior Owner) to fix that mess!! Given the obvious negligence of using indoor electric wire outdoors (AND down a "gutter" likely getting water runoff from siding), are there other hidden "Gems" that prior owner did?? How is the electrical panel??

My 2 cent recommendation is once you get electrical re-routed, and using proper wire the entire route, then I'd pay a HVAC pro to properly fix that outside mess. Thus, evac the system and line set and disconnect at condensor so that "gutter guard" could be removed and proper PVC chaseway installed from attic all the way to condensor for the line set.

Last question, does attic installation of air handler have proper insulation of ductwork up there??

 

[5mall5nail5]

Yikes on the "electrocution gutter" that prior owner had on the exterior of house !!

Sure hope you got MONEY in house closing (ie paid by Prior Owner) to fix that mess!! Given the obvious negligence of using indoor electric wire outdoors (AND down a "gutter" likely getting water runoff from siding), are there other hidden "Gems" that prior owner did?? How is the electrical panel??

My 2 cent recommendation is once you get electrical re-routed, and using proper wire the entire route, then I'd pay a HVAC pro to properly fix that outside mess. Thus, evac the system and line set and disconnect at condensor so that "gutter guard" could be removed and proper PVC chaseway installed from attic all the way to condensor for the line set.

Last question, does attic installation of air handler have proper insulation of ductwork up there??

We didn't see this per inspection. Annoying because the inspector didn't mention it. Not thrilled with our inspector. But, whatever. We negotiated cash back at close so I made out ok. Still it'd be nice to have been resolved. It's not extremely expensive to fix, though so that's convenient at least.

The panel is actually pretty clean. No real surprises there other than the 12/2 wire on the 30A circuit

The ductwork in the attic is insulated yup.

Not that it's any less ghetto but the gutter is plastic.

 

[atfulldraw]

Not that it's any less ghetto but the gutter is plastic.

no......

that's worse!

 

[5mall5nail5]

no......

that's worse!

I don't consider it worse considering there's 30A live, undersized wiring running through it and torn insulation. I'd rather it be plastic than have a live tube on the side of the house. Not ideal, but all things considered...

 

[5mall5nail5]

Alrighty guys. Spent today finishing this project. I got gray 1/2" PVC w/ a 90-deg box up top:


Conduit box by Jon Kensy, on Flickr

I used two 10' lengths and ended up cutting off maybe 7" from the bottom of one to keep the right height. I didn't end up going ALL the way up to the top of the attic like the original lame run did because I couldn't reach and it seemed unnecessary.

The disconnect is setup properly with #10 THHN in Liquid-Tight lines. All good:


Disconnect box by Jon Kensy, on Flickr

I ran the new run of 10/2 Romex through the studs to the panel up to the garage attic and then into the main attic.


10/2 Condenser Romex by Jon Kensy, on Flickr

Put a junction box up in the attic that I had laying around. Worked fine for this:


Junction box in attic by Jon Kensy, on Flickr

Ran the ac down to 70F for a good 25 - 30 mins and the wire didn't heat up one bit. Works, the wire isn't warming up, the breaker is 30A, the wire is 30A, and all is well!

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Alrighty guys. Spent today finishing this project. I got gray 1/2" PVC w/ a 90-deg box up top:


Conduit box by Jon Kensy, on Flickr

I used two 10' lengths and ended up cutting off maybe 7" from the bottom of one to keep the right height. I didn't end up going ALL the way up to the top of the attic like the original lame run did because I couldn't reach and it seemed unnecessary.

The disconnect is setup properly with #10 THHN in Liquid-Tight lines. All good:


Disconnect box by Jon Kensy, on Flickr

I ran the new run of 10/2 Romex through the studs to the panel up to the garage attic and then into the main attic.


10/2 Condenser Romex by Jon Kensy, on Flickr

Put a junction box up in the attic that I had laying around. Worked fine for this:


Junction box in attic by Jon Kensy, on Flickr

Ran the ac down to 70F for a good 25 - 30 mins and the wire didn't heat up one bit. Works, the wire isn't warming up, the breaker is 30A, the wire is 30A, and all is well!

Do you really want to know what a retired electrical contractor thinks about that junction box install?

 

[5mall5nail5]

Do you really want to know what a retired electrical contractor thinks about that junction box install?

Whats wrong with it

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Im not sure where to even begin to explain.
Unsecured romex coming into box,unprotected wires coming out other end of box.............

 

[5mall5nail5]

Ok so tell me how to remedy it.

 

[pattenp]

You need a NM clamp on the box for the Romex and the single wires need to be in conduit with the conduit connected to the box.

Ok so tell me how to remedy it.

 

[5mall5nail5]

You need a NM clamp on the box for the Romex and the single wires need to be in conduit with the conduit connected to the box.

Ok, that's simple enough. I wonder if the dude above is retired because of his demeanor

 

[brewchief]

Metal J box needs to be grounded as well if it isn't already.

 

[pattenp]

Good point, I didn't think about that. Run a short ground pigtail to a screw in the back of box.

Metal J box needs to be grounded as well if it isn't already.

 

[5mall5nail5]

Good point, I didn't think about that. Run a short ground pigtail to a screw in the back of box.

I did, the junction box is grounded

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Ok, that's simple enough. I wonder if the dude above is retired because of his demeanor

Nope,Im retired after 30 plus years of busting my ***.
I still do jobs for certain customers though.
Im sure speedy petey would love to see something like that on a job and would have a wonderfull answer for it also.
Weve also got that code/inspector guy on here somewhere also that would be much rougher on it than I was Im sure.

 

[Norcal]

Do you really want to know what a retired electrical contractor thinks about that junction box install?

Late in chiming in but there was nothing right about it.

 

[5mall5nail5]

Nope,Im retired after 30 plus years of busting my ***.
I still do jobs for certain customers though.
Im sure speedy petey would love to see something like that on a job and would have a wonderfull answer for it also.
Weve also got that code/inspector guy on here somewhere also that would be much rougher on it than I was Im sure.

Considering what I am replacing, missing a nm clamp and having to continue my conduit for 4inches is a hell of a lot better than the warm/hot undersized Romex running from the panel thru "conduit" to the outdoor disconnect (no conduit) , from the disconnect to ac unit (no conduit) and... Yeah. I think I did pretty good regardless of your attitude.

 

[Kevin C]

Sometimes its hard to get your hard work criticized. And no doubt, you have made some great improvements. That said, you come so far on this..... A few more minor upgrades can get you up to code.

The upside it that you will end up with a job that no one will second guess. The next guy looking at your will wont know how much better a job you did, all he will see is that for some reason you skipped a step.

That's my take.

 

[walrus]

Considering what I am replacing, missing a nm clamp and having to continue my conduit for 4inches is a hell of a lot better than the warm/hot undersized Romex running from the panel thru "conduit" to the outdoor disconnect (no conduit) , from the disconnect to ac unit (no conduit) and... Yeah. I think I did pretty good regardless of your attitude.

In the end both were wrong, easy fix for what you did wrong, it will make it much safer.

 

[5mall5nail5]

10 mins of work.


Junction box by Jon Kensy, on Flickr


Junction box by Jon Kensy, on Flickr


Junction box by Jon Kensy, on Flickr

I agree that it should be proper and safe. I have no problem remedying the situation. It was merely a case of "oh, ok. didn't know." However, it was tainted with serious attitude and condescending tone. I can handle criticism especially on a field I am new in I just don't appreciate being almost mocked.

 

[walrus]

Looks good, nice job

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Considering what I am replacing, missing a nm clamp and having to continue my conduit for 4inches is a hell of a lot better than the warm/hot undersized Romex running from the panel thru "conduit" to the outdoor disconnect (no conduit) , from the disconnect to ac unit (no conduit) and... Yeah. I think I did pretty good regardless of your attitude.

Sorry,didnt realize I had an attitude.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Sometimes its hard to get your hard work criticized. And no doubt, you have made some great improvements. That said, you come so far on this..... A few more minor upgrades can get you up to code.

The upside it that you will end up with a job that no one will second guess. The next guy looking at your will wont know how much better a job you did, all he will see is that for some reason you skipped a step.

That's my take.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

10 mins of work.


Junction box by Jon Kensy, on Flickr


Junction box by Jon Kensy, on Flickr


Junction box by Jon Kensy, on Flickr

I agree that it should be proper and safe. I have no problem remedying the situation. It was merely a case of "oh, ok. didn't know." However, it was tainted with serious attitude and condescending tone. I can handle criticism especially on a field I am new in I just don't appreciate being almost mocked.

Nobody was mocking you,Ive seen people post stuff much harder than what I said.
I was just really surprised that you spent so much time trying to make the rest of it nice but cut a bunch of corners on what I personally consider the most important part of the job.
Areas like that you cant see during regular use could easily start a fire and you wouldnt know it till seious damage is already done.
So any way thats what I saw so you can take it either way.

 

[Norcal]

At least it was not hard to rectify. All it would take to be a PITA was for the wire to have been cut short.

 

[Kevin C]

The only thing missing is a quick wrap of electrical tape around the wire nuts so they don't come loose.



























Yes I'm kidding

Great job!!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The only thing missing is a quick wrap of electrical tape around the wire nuts so they don't come loose.



























Yes I'm kidding

Great job!!

Nice one! You almost got me. I was just about to hit quote and correct your post! good thing I scrolled to the bottom!

 

[SiGmA_X]

Nice work Jon! The revised jbox looks great, as does the outside!

To particular others, some of you need to learn what constructive criticism is vs criticism. Obviously it was really helpful (and basically as easy) to explain what was wrong with the jbox, but just criticizing it helps no one. I should know, I'm a huge *******, which gives me a lot of opportunity to examine my critical intended-to-be-helpful-but-incomplete-and-thus-assholeish statements. And to the rest of you who helped, good on you!

e: I'm not at all starting a fight, so don't even go there. Self-reflection is useful, and should be done. I'm done with this conversation, back to Jon's garage / AC build kthx.