electric or hydronic garage heat?

[Vtown76]

Hi, first post. Been lurking here for ideas as we add on to our house.

We are putting a 24x30 addition on the end of our existing raised ranch. Garage down, master suite up.

I am maintaining the original 2 car garage (work shop) and of course adding 2 more bays. (all insulated)

The heat and domestic water for the master suite is being routed through the exisiting garage and as such the space will need to be protected from freezing or else gycol will need to be added to the boiler. Not sure why the contractor isn't worried about the domestic water freezing if unheated space but....

Don't matter i guess, I want heat in the garage anyway.

Quote to install 2 Hot Dog hydronic (one 30 and one 45) is $3100. Seems like a lot of money. Google tells me the heaters cost just under $1000 each. Is $1100fair for install and misc parts?

Buddy of mine says install a couple electric heaters, they are like 300-500 each. Of course the sub panel is already in (90 amp). Not sure I should consume more than half of that for garage heaters?

There is no gas here.

Is there an cheaper alternative to the $3100 hydronic package?

Is electric less efficient than using the hot water from the boiler?

Other ideas?
Thanks

 

[Jumper]

Hi. First post here. I installed hydronic heat in my basement when we built our house and I love it. Its not complicated. Plus, it has a distinct advantage over the electric heaters in your application. If you heated with in-floor hydronic heat, it will warm the cement slab and also heat objects in the room more-so than the air. The electric heaters primarily heat the air. And when you open the garage door, all the warm air will be lost. Not so with the hydronic heat but it does take longer to come up to temperature.

If you cant afford to put in the entire system in one shot, you can just lay out your tubing runs and then pour your slab. I used 1/2" oxygen barrier PEX tubing for mine, ran all my runs back to a manifold before they poured our basement floor. It was year or two later before I hooked it up to my heat source, a tankless water heater. You will want to keep your runs as close to equal length as possible with none longer than 250ft. The company that I got my tankless water heater from advised me on zones, run length and spacing. It is very comfortable heat.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

As the real estate agent says...... "location, location, location"

Please edit your profile using the control panel (CP) so we at least know what state you are located in.

Hydronic heat in Florida would not be a good investment, but in North Dakota, it probably would be worth while.

Need more info.

Charles

 

[dstankus]

I am also interested in choosing between air or hydronic heating. I am located in southwest Michigan. I am looking to build a 34 x 36 foot stick framed garage. I would not have access to natural gas in the garage so I would have the options of electric or propane (if I installed an outside tank). I would say we have three months of serious cold a year here. I am not sure which design to go with - forced air or hydronic in floor.


It seems like no matter what insulation is a huge consideration and found the below recommendations from another guys post -

"Insulation is fuel you only pay for once"

If you are building with stud walls, I'm guessing you are planning on 2x4 construction, with fiberglas roll insulation. I know the cost is greater, but consider using 2x6 and R19. OR, (and I'm no building or insulation guru, so research if this is feasible!) in addition to the fiberglas roll product in the wall cavities, apply the foam boards to the outside... OR, consider 'wall tite' spray foam product ( I think it has higher R value per inch, PLUS it's AIR TIGHT ).

Try to get at LEAST R40 in the ceiling, and I would go R60 if it were mine.

Any more advice or opinions?

 

[Steve in Mi]

I am also interested in choosing between air or hydronic heating. I am located in southwest Michigan. I am looking to build a 34 x 36 foot stick framed garage. I would not have access to natural gas in the garage so I would have the options of electric or propane (if I installed an outside tank). I would say we have three months of serious cold a year here. I am not sure which design to go with - forced air or hydronic in floor.


It seems like no matter what insulation is a huge consideration and found the below recommendations from another guys post -

"Insulation is fuel you only pay for once"

If you are building with stud walls, I'm guessing you are planning on 2x4 construction, with fiberglas roll insulation. I know the cost is greater, but consider using 2x6 and R19. OR, (and I'm no building or insulation guru, so research if this is feasible!) in addition to the fiberglas roll product in the wall cavities, apply the foam boards to the outside... OR, consider 'wall tite' spray foam product ( I think it has higher R value per inch, PLUS it's AIR TIGHT ).

Try to get at LEAST R40 in the ceiling, and I would go R60 if it were mine.

Any more advice or opinions?

Insulate the perimeter below stud walls down to the frost line and under the floor.

It's my opinion that if you insulate the whole structure well the type of heat source will be of less importance to your pocket book, however, energy costs can make a big difference ( natural gas LP, electric, wood etc.).

It bears repeating, "Insulation is fuel you only pay for once".

 

[sands35]

If you do car work (i.e., roll around on the floor) you will want hydronic. Also if you find yourself going in and out of the car door. Radient will recover faster than forced air.

Forced air is cheeper to install.

Plenty of reading available for how to do underslab and foundation insulation.

If i had to do it over, i'd do 2x6 overhung 2" to cover the foundation insulation or run the foundation insulation up and integrate it with siding insulation.

Insulation details and air sealing likely matter as much as the actual R value. ( personally, i'm doubfull that a fully air tight building is the best way. At least without HRVs or other ways to manage air quality)

 

[Vtown76]

I am located in CT. Let me clear up a few details. The slab is already poured, so no radiant possible....

The hydronic option that is being proposed is the Hot Dog; so it's taking hot water and transfereing the heat to the air with a heat exchanger and fan.

So I am comparing hot dog heater(s) to resistance electric blower.

The hydronic option is about twice the upfront cost. Basically Im asking if electric or oil based hydronic unit will be more efficent with time. In either case the heat will be set to ~45F for freeze protection, and when working in the garage I'll crank it up to 55-60.

 

[bfdladder10]

I installed a hydronic unit heater in my garage last fall.. I did the work myself. Parts to install not including cost of the heater was around 400.00

Doug

 

[Steve in Mi]

I am located in CT. Let me clear up a few details. The slab is already poured, so no radiant possible.....

Thanks for clearing that up. I took

We are putting a 24x30 addition on the end of our existing raised ranch.

to mean you still had time to insulate below ground. My mistake.

If you do car work (i.e., roll around on the floor) you will want hydronic. Also if you find yourself going in and out of the car door. Radient will recover faster than forced air.

I don't agree with either of these two statements and if you PM me to set up a visit to my shop in the dead of Winter I believe I could change your mind on the matter. My floor temperature is only 2 degrees cooler than the set point air temp. i.e., 63 degree air and 61 degree floor.

 

[pseudorealityx]

I don't agree with either of these two statements and if you PM me to set up a visit to my shop in the dead of Winter I believe I could change your mind on the matter. My floor temperature is only 2 degrees cooler than the set point air temp. i.e., 63 degree air and 61 degree floor.

The delta T isn't the important part. It's how the heat is transferred.

For instance, if you stand outside when it's 50 degrees outside, it's cool, but not terribly cold.

If you jump into 50 degree water, it can kill you within an hour.

 

[sands35]

Apparently what he said is hydronic is not what I thought is was.

Re: slab temps. Really depends on how well insulated it is and if it's heated constantly or just when you're in the shop. To me forced air vs radient feels different. It takes a long time for forced air to raise the slab temp. I'd rather have a warm floor than a warm ceiling.

 

[CNGsaves]

What about LPG propane?? You could have a hanging heater in each big section. I'd guess $2,000 to $2500 total installed, less if you did bunch of work yourself. Options include Modine Hot Dawg, Mr Heater Big Maxx, Reznor, etc.

Check prior GJ threads as some guys put 100 lb LPG bottle outside garage and run pipe through wall to the heater. This would require more work to refill bottles periodically if you don't have larger LPG tank for whole property.

 

[Highbeam]

The thread title is tricky, the subject is all about forced air heating. Lots of folks on here can figure out the cheapest way to go but is it equipment cost or operating cost that you are trying to reduce? To figure out the cheapest operating cost we need your fuel costs and fuel availability options.