Waterborne Automotive Paint?

[lilscorpion]

So I gotta project going that's gonna need paint. I have quite a bit of experience with HLVP guns spaying lacquers, stains, and polys but have never sprayed a car. I'm fairly good with the wet edge too FWIW. Now, to be fair, I've been in the booth on a few paint jobs end to end and have blocked a car a time or two and get its all in the prep so the question is all about the paint, just never been the trigger man. Anyway, I'm looking into the waterborne paints specifically and am thinking about giving it a shot (solo ride). I want to go waterborne because I'm doing it in my garage and (1) my garage is attached and (2) my neighbors and HOA will crucify me otherwise. In woodworking I hate waterborne stuff (the stuff I've tried anyway) because it didn't seem to build well compared to the solvent versions. Are the auto versions difficult to spray? The PPG site says the build better and require less coats as a result which is contradictory to what my suspicions are. Are there any limitations that make waterborne undesirable? Any opinions?

 

[CARS]

I restore cars so I am stuck with the old petrol based paints because they haven't made formulas for the paint co.'s water borne paint lines.

But I know a couple things.

There is water borne and water based paints. Google both and read.

You must have 100% dry air. The booths for waterborne and solvent have different air flow requirements. Might want to read up on whether or not it's going to work in a garage with a box fan (or ??) for airflow.

There is no waterborne primers or top coats available. So you are SOL if you think you are going to go 100% "green".

 

[MarkG]

I used AutoAir Colors water-based paints in my airbrush when I painted my bike project. It sprays and dries totally different than oil or lacquer as you would expect!

As others have mentioned, I still had to clear coat with lacquer.

 

[Hammer1963]

These paints provide very good hiding/coverage and color matches tend to be better than most solvent base paints. Spraying pearls and metallic colors is actually easier due to the stability that the base provides. Overall, a good product.

Now the drawbacks. Using the product requires an investment in new air purifiers, hoses, dryers and a dedicated gun and proves to be quite an investment for a casual painter and home use.

 

[lilscorpion]

These paints provide very good hiding/coverage and color matches tend to be better than most solvent base paints. Spraying pearls and metallic colors is actually easier due to the stability that the base provides. Overall, a good product.

Now the drawbacks. Using the product requires an investment in new air purifiers, hoses, dryers and a dedicated gun and proves to be quite an investment for a casual painter and home use.

Id need to get a new gun for sure but i already knew that and planned to. I have a commercial dryer and some filters I used to have hooked up before the plasma table. Very setup there. What kind of purifier would I need?

 

[CARS]

It looks like I was stuck in the dark ages. Back when it was brought to my attention it was going to be a hassle. Still not cheap to convert over, but doable. http://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2012/14/how-waterborne-paint-is-changing-the-auto-industry

But, you are still going to need solvents on the bottom and top. Is it worth the cost of a new gun? My last SATA gun was close to $700.00.

 

[lilscorpion]

It looks like I was stuck in the dark ages. Back when it was brought to my attention it was going to be a hassle. Still not cheap to convert over, but doable. http://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2012/14/how-waterborne-paint-is-changing-the-auto-industry

But, you are still going to need solvents on the bottom and top. Is it worth the cost of a new gun? My last SATA gun was close to $700.00.

Love ta bottom and top might just push me back to paying someone. I was thinking there was a safe(r) way to paint in the garage. Prime and clear is a large part of the job so it might not be worth it.

 

[Drunken Yak inc]

There are waterborne primers. We currently use one.

 

[CARS]

There are waterborne primers. We currently use one.

Really? Like I said, I am stuck with solvents but I would really like to see a link to this product line.

I just cant imagine water on bare steel

Then again, if you would have told me I would be gluing panels on a car 25 years ago I would have called BS

EDIT: Yep. I live in the dark ages restoring these old rides.... They have it!
http://www.ppg.com/coatings/refinish/en/products/aquabaseplus/Pages/P950-5505.aspx

I'm sure that Dupont and Sikkens have them too.

 

[sanddan]

Why would you need a new gun? both my main gun and spot gun have stainless steel internals and they are not new by any means. Is there another requirement needed?

 

[Zeke]

Why would you need a new gun? both my main gun and spot gun have stainless steel internals and they are not new by any means. Is there another requirement needed?

Yes, the dynamics of the air cap are different not to mention the fluid nozzle and needle. You need the proper gun to atomize the paint. I can't get used to them either. Old dogs and new tricks....

 

[Kevin54]

These paints provide very good hiding/coverage and color matches tend to be better than most solvent base paints. Spraying pearls and metallic colors is actually easier due to the stability that the base provides. Overall, a good product.

Now the drawbacks. Using the product requires an investment in new air purifiers, hoses, dryers and a dedicated gun and proves to be quite an investment for a casual painter and home use.

Hammer...can you explain that comment? Not trying to sound smartass, I just don't know, and want to know. What would be the difference in air-hose?

I can sort of understand the dryer, but then again, don't understand why a dryer would be needed other than contamination from airborne moisture vs. compressed air moisture.

As far as a spray tip on the gun, is the tip smaller than for conventional base/clear paint? And again, I don't know, but what about spraying Candy Colors? Is it possible with water based paints vs. the petroleum based paints and how do the two compare side by side?

Say for instance, if a rear quarter was needed to be repaired, could a person use a water based paint to paint and blend, or would it be completely off as far as tint between the two?

 

[sanddan]

Yes, the dynamics of the air cap are different not to mention the fluid nozzle and needle. You need the proper gun to atomize the paint. I can't get used to them either. Old dogs and new tricks....

Thanks for the explanation. Lucky for me I don't need to switch over to the water borne paints at this time.

 

[Hammer1963]

It's not a different type of air hose, just one that has not been exposed to any oils that may have been transmitted by using the hose for other purposes or used in a system without proper dehumidifying. I do however use a waterborne recommended hose which is a plastic polymer and not rubber or vinyl based product

The system I utilize in the shop, uses a drying system that draws 98% of airborne moisture from the air being brought in through the intake. The air is heated and then cooled to ambient temperature or to a selected temperature. The waterborne paints are very sensitive to both humidity and temp.

Once the color has been applied, I use a combination of heated moving air and light to speed up the drying process. Oddly enough, the heat blowers resemble hair blow dryers, but are very accurate on air flow and temp adjustment.

I live in a highly regulated air quality area and I realized early on that I would most likely be mandated to make the switch sooner or later. To my surprise, it appears that it is going to take quite some time for the change to waterborne products to take a hold even in the Louisville metro area as solvent based paints are being improved on VOC content on a rapid pace.

Regardless of what you choose, good luck and enjoy the painting experience.

 

[wafrederick]

Most autobody guys don't like the waterborne paint and my neighbor Ken is one of them.My neighbor Ken does not like the waterborne paint system at all,likes the solvent type better.

 

[CARS]

Most autobody guys don't like the waterborne paint and my neighbor Ken is one of them.My neighbor Ken does not like the waterborne paint system at all,likes the solvent type better.

Thanks for your neighbor's 2 cents.

I for one am backing away from painting because I have become sensitized to the solvents. I taste them, itch from them, look like a 14 yr old going through puberty.

I would like to use WB paints if it is better for me. One thing that I think about is that we are 97% water (or something like that). My immune system kept out what it could and told me when I have had enough of solvents. What is this waterborne stuff going to do to me?

 

[Kevin54]

Thanks for your neighbor's 2 cents.

I for one am backing away from painting because I have become sensitized to the solvents. I taste them, itch from them, look like a 14 yr old going through puberty.

I would like to use WB paints if it is better for me. One thing that I think about is that we are 97% water (or something like that). My immune system kept out what it could and told me when I have had enough of solvents. What is this waterborne stuff going to do to me?

Sounds like isocyanate poisoning. I have a cousin that developed it and it sounds like the same exact symptoms that he has. If he gets close to it, or get near the fumes, he breaks out with a hell of an itchy rash all over. It was my understanding that he has been to hospitals and doctors and there is not much they can do once you contract it. I do know that when it happens, he does take Benadryl which will help with the itching somewhat, but never fully takes it away.

If you do paint with petroleum based products, at least make sure that you have a TyVek painters suit, plus either a decent 3M respirator, or get a full hood for protection.

Best bet would be to avoid it altogether and stick with bodywork and leave the painting to someone else.

Just take precautions and we'll be thinking about you.

 

[ilovevocs]

I have a positive pressure hood. I used to paint as a side line, but its just a hobby now. Wouldn't paint with out one.

I have an opinion on waterborne paints that has been substantiated by several professional painters I respect. Ill sum it up quickly, waterborne paints more analogous with our body composition, and they don't flash as quickly. You certainly absorb more through your skin and lungs. Most painters I knew in SoCal were only using it because it was forced upon them by big brother, it wasn't by choice.