Warning. PVC air line failure

[Mike in Ohio]

Devils advocate here just for fun and info. Has anyone tried to wrap pvc with something to contain a potential explosion? Some sort of insulation maybe, or something stronger? If so did you have an explosion and did the wrap hold?

 

[Strouty]

I agree, no PVC for airlines, but I would like to see pictures of the carnage.

 

[alpinewhite]

Devils advocate here just for fun and info. Has anyone tried to wrap pvc with something to contain a potential explosion? Some sort of insulation maybe, or something stronger? If so did you have an explosion and did the wrap hold?

Duct tape should do it. It'd be damn ugly, though.

 

[Strouty]

Devils advocate here just for fun and info. Has anyone tried to wrap pvc with something to contain a potential explosion? Some sort of insulation maybe, or something stronger? If so did you have an explosion and did the wrap hold?

Duct tape should do it. It'd be damn ugly, though.

I doubt it would work, but at least the women should find you handy.

 

[2drx4]

Devils advocate here just for fun and info. Has anyone tried to wrap pvc with something to contain a potential explosion? Some sort of insulation maybe, or something stronger? If so did you have an explosion and did the wrap hold?

Why bother?

Pull some PEX instead... Price is similar (less here, actually), easier to work with, and it is much less likely to blow up in a dangerous manner.

 

[djjsr]

Wrapping your PVC pipe with duct tape .................. Seems like there should be a Jeff Foxworthy comment on this.

 

[Norcal]

PVC is not allowed in a structure for water & is rated for COLD water only, there are plastic piping systems rated for air but I would avoid it unless there is a vendor who stocks it locally, a brochure I read years ago had the ABS pipe metric so PVC fittings would not interchange.

 

[arms1970]

Not only that, but there's a name for it in industry: it's called, not surprisingly, a hydrotest. When we'd test HDPE pipe liners we'd pump full of water 'til they'd blow. If doing so with air, I may not be here right now.

Exactly, i repair control valves. Use my hydro every day. 10,000 psi max

 

[nehog]

I still call bs on this, 30 years and no problems. ...

Translation: "I've been lucky so far so my luck applies to everyone..."

 

[TheShrine]

Is that PVC he's beating that horse with?

 

[Ign]

Is that PVC he's beating that horse with?

That's funny. I had 3' of PVC yesterday to plumb a drain from my water heater pan, told the wife it was a "wife training stick." She pointed out it said Charlotte on it (it did) and that's not her name. Hmm

 

[Davefr]

Thanks for the post and ignore some of the whiners here.

The consequences of improper safety arrangements can't be overstated. If you helped prevent a repeat of your experience then this post was worth the bandwidth.

A culture of safety comes from keeping the consequences front and center!!

 

[porschedude996TT]

Devils advocate here just for fun and info. Has anyone tried to wrap pvc with something to contain a potential explosion? Some sort of insulation maybe, or something stronger? If so did you have an explosion and did the wrap hold?

I suggest copper or iron wrap in the form of a tubular structure...

 

[ShaneMSnyder]

Man that *****, glad you're okay though. This reminds me of our family vacation house. The garage has pvc airlines ran throughout and every time I see a line I cringe. Gonna have to have a talk with my father in law about swapping. I've just heard too many bad things and less good things about pvc for air.

 

[Rodhotz]

Man that *****, glad you're okay though. This reminds me of our family vacation house. The garage has pvc airlines ran throughout and every time I see a line I cringe. Gonna have to have a talk with my father in law about swapping. I've just heard too many bad things and less good things about pvc for air.

And where are the pics to prove it? everyone has seen it or a friend has seen it but not one pic of it. how many are just jumping on the band wagon for the sake of doing so without any proof? Hydro testing now their is a thought, i am gonna have my neighbor hydro a section of pipe and see where it fails and the results.

 

[dmeadow]

And where are the pics to prove it? everyone has seen it or a friend has seen it but not one pic of it. how many are just jumping on the band wagon for the sake of doing so without any proof? Hydro testing now their is a thought, i am gonna have my neighbor hydro a section of pipe and see where it fails and the results.

Here is a thread on another forum with a picture, and you can see more pics if you Google images "pvc air line explosion" though I have a feeling asking for pics is just a red herring on your part.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/pvc-air-lines-90255/index2.html

 

[stonesfan68]

It is against OSHA regulations to use PVC for air piping.

https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=20202

https://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

Why would anyone want to take the chance on injuring or killing themselves or someone else when the dangers are so widely known? Spend the extra money on installing the right piping material for the job, or suffer the consequences, including injury, death or financial ruin from law suits.

As far having proof with pictures, all I can say is that I believe in a lot of things without seeing pictures as proof.

 

[pattenp]

The failure results by water pressure and air pressure are nowhere the same. Air is compressible so when the pipe fails it's like an explosion throwing fragments in all directions. Water is not compressible so the pipe just pops and splits.

And where are the pics to prove it? everyone has seen it or a friend has seen it but not one pic of it. how many are just jumping on the band wagon for the sake of doing so without any proof? Hydro testing now their is a thought, i am gonna have my neighbor hydro a section of pipe and see where it fails and the results.

 

[djjsr]

OSHA will not come into your garage if it's not a business, so you can plumb your air lines with anything you want. It's your garage and your risk. Just keep in mind that if it blows, somebody other than you might get hurt. Do your wife or kids ever go in the garage?

 

[donthelegend]

Devils advocate here just for fun and info. Has anyone tried to wrap pvc with something to contain a potential explosion? Some sort of insulation maybe, or something stronger? If so did you have an explosion and did the wrap hold?

A few years ago I was really into building potato guns to varying degrees of sophistication (not spray and pray type stuff, I'm talking more along the lines of carefully metered propane and high voltage ignition systems). The things people created on that forum with PVC and various other pipes, fittings, etc was pretty amazing (there were several people who had built spud guns capable of sending projectiles super-sonic).

Anyway... wrapping PVC with duct tape is pointless. There used to be a video floating around showing the results, and it loooked like normal shattered PVC that had pieces of duct tape on it. Sure you can add enough duct tape to make a difference (as Mythbusters has shown) but a few wraps isn't going to matter.

BTW: www.spudfiles.com for those interested. Haven't been around there in a while, but there is some pretty serious engineering knowledge there and lots of really cool designs.

 

[Zick]

And where are the pics to prove it? everyone has seen it or a friend has seen it but not one pic of it. how many are just jumping on the band wagon for the sake of doing so without any proof? Hydro testing now their is a thought, i am gonna have my neighbor hydro a section of pipe and see where it fails and the results.

So you need to see pictures to believe that something like running compressed air through plastic is potentially dangerous?

Fine, here you go:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pvc...0oGYDQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=813&dpr=1

 

[A_Pmech]

OSHA's position on PVC piping is clear, it is prohibited for compressed gas use. After reading OSHA's position letter below there really is nothing left to argue:

February 14, 1989

Mr. Jack Cannova Tempe
Industrial
412 W. Dryon Street
Tempe, Arizona 85283

Dear Mr. Cannova:

In response to your recent inquiry concerning our regulatory position on the use of plastic pipe for compressed air systems, I trust this letter will clear up any confusion over the issue.

It is our position that PVC pipe shall not be used as a means of transporting compressed air. This position follows the manufacturer's own statements that PVC is unsuitable for compressed air systems. We do allow the use of certain ABS materials that are specifically designed for compressed air systems. One such product is "Duraplus" air line piping system ABS pipe. However, as in any such system, the manufacturer's specifications on acceptable pressure and temperature considerations must be followed.

In closing, misapplication of a product, such as using PVC for compressed air systems, may result in citations and penalties being issued dependent upon the specific conditions.

I appreciate your concern and inquiry into this potential safety hazard.

Sincerely,

SAM A. ROGERS
Bureau Chief

From this link:

http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

 

[rlitman]

And where are the pics to prove it? everyone has seen it or a friend has seen it but not one pic of it. how many are just jumping on the band wagon for the sake of doing so without any proof?

Have you seen pictures of a man on the moon? And yet people still deny we ever went there. There's no satisfying people like you.

 

[fnieto]

I ran 1" schedule 80 and fittings with a 2 stage 150 psi air system complete with refrigeration dryer for well over 14 years with no problems. The only reason I used pvc at the time was due to ignorance. My new shop (under construction) will have a copper system. Over the years, many folks of various trades would visit the shop to pick up or drop off jobs and never once did they voice concern over my application of pvc for air system.
It make sense to me that if I was to have a failure it would be very dangerous. Sch 80 is some thick stuff and would probably require something striking it while under pressure to cause failure. I also remember at the time I purchased the pvc from a commercial supplier, I told them it was for my air supply and they recommended a different glue. They never tried to warn or educate me. Again, it served me well for many years.

 

[SMKS]

Well, this whole thread has probably been a waste of time. The OP posts on average once per year, so I doubt he'll ever return and provide any pics of the carnage.

If he did post more than once per year he'd probably know this topic has been covered ad nauseam.

Is that PVC he's beating that horse with?

The pipe looks black, so my guess is that it's ABS.

Wait, that's an entire new topic we can argue about.

Hey, how about ABS air lines in my garage?

 

[BDT/NWMN]

PVC for airlines; and yes; You can roller skate in a buffalo herd...

 

[Strouty]

PVC for airlines; and yes; You can roller skate in a buffalo herd...

Naked.

 

[55bigblockcid]

Is that PVC he's beating that horse with?

Of course not,It`s iron pipe.
Don`t you see the coupling on the end of it?
Everyone knows you can`t kill a horse with PVC,it will break into a million flying pieces of shrapnel.

 

[redlinetoys]

I can personally attest to the explosion. A buddy had a flex hose to pvc through his wall and attack to air drops through the garage. The 2 inch pvc pipe in the wall (but exposed to the inner garage as there was no drywall on the inside) exploded with enough force to blow a hole in the outside of the house. It blew out the insulating board, house wrap and vinyl siding.

At the time I wondered about a combination of a fine mist of compressor oil, hot air, fluctuating pressures, etc. Bottom line, it is not worth worrying about. Don't do it!

 

[aafadca]

Well, this whole thread has probably been a waste of time. The OP posts on average once per year, so I doubt he'll ever return and provide any pics of the carnage.

If he did post more than once per year he'd probably know this topic has been covered ad nauseam.




The pipe looks black, so my guess is that it's ABS.

Wait, that's an entire new topic we can argue about.

Hey, how about ABS air lines in my garage?

He originally posted on another forum and I asked him to post here because there's so much debate about it. Hopefully it's helped someone on the fence about the subject.

 

[adpprop]

You can only warn people with the best knowledge possible and then let them make a decision. This is why we vote for our governments and I can tell you that even with the best knowledge idiots still get elected.
Having PVC air lines is a choice. Not mine but I have seen pictures of guys on step ladders many stories up on a building perched on the railing. You wouldn't catch me doing that either.
Many years as a mechanic I can tell you some stories that would make you cringe but my personal favorite was the guy who brought in an Austin Mini with a propane torch sat under the hood between the engine and the firewall that he used to heat up his engine in the cold Saskatchewan winter. The technician who was working on it just about filled his pants when he opened the hood! But that still wasn't the best part. The customer had some electrical problems and when the tech went to the fuse box there was some tin foil wrapped around something jammed in to replace the blown glass fuse. It was an unfired 22 shell inside!
Somehow I can't help but think that "culling the herd" may not be a bad thing. AS LONG AS NO ONE ELSE IS INVOLVED. Which unfortunately is not always the case.

 

[ShaneMSnyder]

And where are the pics to prove it? everyone has seen it or a friend has seen it but not one pic of it. how many are just jumping on the band wagon for the sake of doing so without any proof? Hydro testing now their is a thought, i am gonna have my neighbor hydro a section of pipe and see where it fails and the results.

Not implying it cannot be done nor should anyone not use pvc if they have their heart set on it. No pics for proof but I have read time and time again that pvc can fail and I am comfortable with my decision (plus it's only 20ish feet to replace). And it gives me something to do in the garage

 

[MBeaty]

OSHA's position on PVC piping is clear, it is prohibited for compressed gas use. After reading OSHA's position letter below there really is nothing left to argue:

Even if one does not care about OSHA since it does not apply to private non commercial garages ASME references PVC and CPVC in their pressure piping code.

From ASNI/ASME B31.1

A323.4.2 Specific Requirements


3. PVC and CPVC shall not be used in compressed
air or other compressed gas service.

also

A345.5.2 Other Requirements

(b) PVC and CPVC piping shall not be pneumatically
tested.

Note it says "shall", not "should." They take it as far as never even pressure testing PVC pipe with air regardless of its end use.

There is a tremendous amount of real life experience that goes into writing an ASME code for pressure vessels or pressure piping, so it is always a good idea to yield to their judgement. There is a good reason why any power plants piping meets ASME B31.1 for safety reasons.

 

[BRUTAL]

He originally posted on another forum and I asked him to post here because there's so much debate about it. Hopefully it's helped someone on the fence about the subject.

And it just did. I joined as Ive been a jaguar tech, hotrodder, racer for years and just finished building my 40X60 with 12'eaves and 3 10x14 rollups. 2 on the front side wall and 1 on the back for airflow. Ive used 1/2" PVC for air as ease of use in my garages in the past without issue. And was going to plumb my new workshop with it.....TILL NOW.
Was also looking at Northern tool air supply coiled kits but prefer larger feed. May be better to run 3/4-1" + for feed line from outside compressor and then use the kit lines for drops to point of use...
Anyway looking for ideas, pics, etc for outfitting.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

Yes, I can totally see why guys would come on here and lie about the dangers of PVC air lines, just to work up all the people who know better than to listen.



It still bears repeating for people who have never thought about it.

 

[racecar14]

You didn't come straight off the compressor with it, did you? You had some kind of a vibration damper in there, like a piece of rubber air line or something, right?

I'd say using PVC for air lines is a bad deal, but I'd like to know if this was vibration related...

Yes I did come off the compressor with steel 1 foot amde a 90 turn for 4 feet and then put PVC from then on. My compressor is mounted on rubber pads but I never thought about flex line before the PVC

 

[jkwilson]

That's funny. I had 3' of PVC yesterday to plumb a drain from my water heater pan, told the wife it was a "wife training stick." She pointed out it said Charlotte on it (it did) and that's not her name. Hmm

Should have said "Whoops! I picked up the wrong stick. This is my girlfriend training stick."

You might have needed the stick.

 

[Capt Chrysler]

Hello Folks!

A good friends wife was in charge of QC at the local pipe plant. PVC pipe is the main product. So when we set up a new plant I ask about using PVC. I got a big NO from everyone, but not WHY! So I ended up back to my friend wife. Seems the oil in the compressor will be in the compressed air and that will cause the PVC to break down. Later, we also cleaned out a building that had some old PVC air lines on the walls. And when we pulled on them, they just shattered. The inside had eroded away.


PVC Air Line threads are like Zombies. They keep coming back!



Capt. Chrysler

 

[Ign]

{snip}Ive used 1/2" PVC for air as ease of use in my garages in the past without issue. And was going to plumb my new workshop with it.....TILL NOW.
Was also looking at Northern tool air supply coiled kits but prefer larger feed. May be better to run 3/4-1" + for feed line from outside compressor and then use the kit lines for drops to point of use...
Anyway looking for ideas, pics, etc for outfitting.

As I've said many times over, coppper! It'll last forever, just splits a little if it fails (I had a split occur as a result of freezing and negligence when it came to draining my drop-outs). You can put it together with a MAPP gas torch and nothing more, and even if you've never sweated pipe before it's not hard. Best part: anything you would ever need is available 7 days/week at any hardware store. No proprietary fittings or connectors.

 

[justanengineer]

There is a tremendous amount of real life experience that goes into writing an ASME code for pressure vessels or pressure piping, so it is always a good idea to yield to their judgement. There is a good reason why any power plants piping meets ASME B31.1 for safety reasons.

I think the best reason is simply for insurance. Violating a standard like that is similar to violating a major building code, if you submit an insurance claim theres a good chance the insurance company's just going to laugh at you regardless of (lack of) permit requirements or how far out in the sticks you are.

I find it funny how folks wont believe without pics, yet wont take the time to google these incidents as theyre pretty well documented on other forums/sites. I can add my own testimonial to PVC/CPVC's shrapnel like quality - Ive seen the aftermath of IEDs in Iraq that were made from PVC filled with scrap, it can go quite a distance and penetrates solids very well.