Three way switches

[Sureshot]

I am swapping out some three way switches and got something mixed up. Going back to square one I pulled both switches. Both boxes have the same thing. No wire nuts, the red is hot, touching the red and black turns on the light.

I googled but the diagrams I come up with don't fit. Any one got something?

 

[pattenp]

 

[Sureshot]

I found that but doesn't fit with hot red in both boxes simultaneously. Just bare wires hanging from the box.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Regardless of a diagram, u need to figure out which wire in one of the boxes is the power source and which wire feeds the hot side of the light. These will go on the common/black screw on their respective switch. The remaining 2 wires will be the travelers between the switches. The colors wont necessarily match a diagram online, so thats why u need your multimeter to test with.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Regardless of a diagram, u need to figure out which wire in one of the boxes is the power source and which wire feeds the hot side of the light. These will go on the common/black screw on their respective switch. The remaining 2 wires will be the travelers between the switches. The colors wont necessarily match a diagram online, so thats why u need your multimeter to test with.

You need to figure out which end of the 3 way switches youre working on.
If you find a hot wire on lets say red or black of the 14/3 in one of the boxes go to the opposite switch and flip it to see if the other wire on the 14/3 becomes hot,those will be your travelers and each of them will go on a brass screw of the 3way switch.
Normally the hot/common will be fed from a piece of 14/2 with the black being attached to common terminal of switch,with the same thing on opposite end going to light fixture.(colors dont always mean anything as wyliediesel said though)
Id say buy a cheap testor that buzzes/lights up when it gets close to a hot wire and start with checking the black wires coming from the 14/2 in box.

 

[Sureshot]

I have a Simpson 260 meter and the tools needed. I bought a fluke T5-600 that will be here this afternoon. I have stuck with the 260 as the analog meter works for a capacitance indicator for long cables but like the easier to handle Fluke for this type of stuff and smaller size.

As stated originally. BOTH boxes have a hot, in this case it is red. In either box if I touch the red to black the light comes on. Neither box has any wire nuts and no other wires into the box other than the 14/3. Both boxes have the bare wires hanging out with no switches attached.

 

[FJ 432]

Sorry to state the obvious but I'm guilty of this. Do you have 3 way switches or in my case are you trying to do what I did and use on/off switches?

 

[pattenp]

You've got two single switch boxes with a 3way switch in each box controlling one light. I'm assuming there are 3 conductor in each box being used on the switches and there are no other wires other than the bare ground. Like the diagram without consideration to wire color. If this is the case you should not have a hot in both boxes.

 

[Sureshot]

As stated originally. BOTH boxes have a hot, in this case it is red. In either box if I touch the red to black the light comes on. Neither box has any wire nuts and no other wires into the box other than the 14/3. Both boxes have the bare wires hanging out with no switches attached.

Single switch boxes not that it matters. NO other wires.

 

[Zeke]

Sounds to me like you should pull the light fixture down and see how it is wired. Patterp is correct (or course).

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

If you only have a red/black/white in each box you need to check box above light to make sure what they did.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If you only have a red/black/white in each box you need to check box above light to make sure what they did.

Yes the power could be coming into the light fixture first instead of the switch junction box.

 

[Sureshot]

You've got two single switch boxes with a 3way switch in each box controlling one light. I'm assuming there are 3 conductor in each box being used on the switches and there are no other wires other than the bare ground. Like the diagram without consideration to wire color. If this is the case you should not have a hot in both boxes.

It is just as described. Red is hot in both boxes and jumpered to black the light comes on.

The solution is putting the white on the common(black) of each switch, and the red and black in the same positions on both switches. When the light is on every terminal in both boxes is energized. When the light is off the red and white are energized in both boxes.

 

[48windsor]

Three way switches have always baffled me . So I read with interest this post . Very informative. Can I still use the rule of Black to Brass White to silver like on a on off switches.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Three way switches have always baffled me . So I read with interest this post . Very informative. Can I still use the rule of Black to Brass White to silver like on a on off switches.

Theyre really not that hard.

Power feed to the circuit is connected to black 'common' screw on first switch. Power feed to the fixture goes on black 'common' screw on other switch.

If the power feeding the circuit goes to the fixture first, then the wiring gets changed slightly. PATTENP posted a picture of this at the top.

And no black wouldnt necessarily go to brass on a 3way switch. White/neutral doesnt go to a SPST switch. You must be thinking of an outlet!

 

[Sureshot]

Three way switches have always baffled me . So I read with interest this post . Very informative. Can I still use the rule of Black to Brass White to silver like on a on off switches.

Not sure if any rules exist. You would think with all the code quote etc in the forum someone would have a set of drawings with the possible scenarios.

 

[pattenp]

Light switches don't have silver screws, they are all copper. The switch is always on the hot side. You're thinking outlets, the neutral connection is to the silver screws on an outlet.

Three way switches have always baffled me . So I read with interest this post . Very informative. Can I still use the rule of Black to Brass White to silver like on a on off switches.

 

[6768rogues]

Here is how I remember: The switches each have one common terminal. One switch common terminal gets incoming electric and the other switch common terminal provides power to the load (light).
The other two terminals on each switch are traveler terminals. The travelers on one switch go the the travelers on the other switch. A traveler never connect to a common.
You can break the pair of travelers between 3 way switches and install a 4 way switch (it has no common terminal). You can put as many 4 way switches as you want between two 3 way switches.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

I am swapping out some three way switches and got something mixed up. Going back to square one I pulled both switches. Both boxes have the same thing. No wire nuts, the red is hot, touching the red and black turns on the light.

I googled but the diagrams I come up with don't fit. Any one got something?

Did the 3 way switch circuit work properly before you changed them out ? Could you go to either switch and turn the fixture off and on from the selected switch ? Then, go to one switch and turn the lamp off and then walk to the other switch and turn it back on ? Maybe the switches never worked right before you decided to change them out ? This would explain why you cannot get them to work now. ...

If they worked properly BEFORE you removed the old switches, and if the feed (HOT) is entering the fixture, then it is just a matter of reading the schematic above and finding the traveler conductors. As stated above, there should not be two "hots" in a box....

Unless, maybe a metal staple over the cable on a stud was driven too tight, or a drywall nail /screw has finally cut in to the insulation between the HOT conductor and a traveler in the same cable making two hot conuctors. Take the voltage off the circuit and do continuity tests on each conductor to test their integrity. good luck

 

[eddie1278]

All you have to do is identify your common wires. Your common wire is basically in lamens terms your "feed in" and "feed out". Those common wires go to the common screw which is normally the odd ball color on the switch most of the time black.

I can tell you how to do this but its too lengthy for me to type. There are many ways to wire a 3 way circuit and who knows what you got there.

 

[justsam]

Are you sure both reds are hot all the time? Lots of good info in this thread that should get you fixed up.

Are you certain when you read hot (120VAC) that you are not looking thru the load, such as an incandescent light which will just show 120VAC thru its low internal resistance and the high input impedance of your Simpson 260? (A classic VOM by the way, I still have one too!) Disconnect (unscrew) the load to be sure.