Electrical Help

[cj8lvr]

I've now effectively been stood up by three certified electricians.

All I want to do is safely wire up a plug on the outside of my house to plug in a portable 7kw generator to power certain circuits in my house during a power outage. Obvious stuff....fridge, freezer, select lights, gas - on demand water heater, and a number of plugs.

I am aware of these and think that one of those may be the ticket.
Does anybody know how to do this?
I can probably do this myself. I'm pretty mechanical.

 

[EOC_Jason]

I've never used those personally, but I have seen them before. Did you look at the Manual

Basically you mount that box next to your breaker panel. Then you will end up wiring from a circuit breaker to the control box, and then some wires from the control box will get tied to the load circuit (the original wires you removed from said circuit breaker, using some wire nuts).

Kind of an easier way than having to replace your breaker panel. I would think if you have a basic knowledge of single phase power you should be okay just following the manual for what wires go to where. Obviously be sure to test everything afterwards and make sure you aren't back-feeding to the grid.

I would take a look at your panel to see how large and the number of circuits you will need to help decide on which box to purchase. That would be the biggest issue is that you are sizing things properly, and obviously your generator can handle the intended load.

Just remember:
Green = Ground
White = Neutral
Black (and possibly other colors) = HOT

 

[nehog]

I have two of those in my house, and they work OK. However, I've found the parts in them to be of minimum quality and if you do get them I'd recommend getting spare breakers (I've had to replace a few) and spare switches (none have failed, but I'm sure it will happen...)

Are they difficult to wire up? Not really, but you really want to cut your main breaker, work carefully, and think when installing one. Since I recommend disconnecting the main breaker you will need an auxiliary power source, like that generator you're going to be using, for lighting while you work. Installation time should be about 10 minutes per circuit, plus another 30 minutes to mount the transfer switch and run the input cable.

 

[kd3pc]

those are geared up for temporary use...and are pretty straight forward to install...Many electricians will not install them, nor will local AHJ allow them, as he could be liable in the event that something backfeeds the infrastructure or the homeowner will not use them correctly. Most electricians are using auto transfer switches hardwired.

You will need to be comfortable with working in the main service panel (dangerous voltages available) and wiring things up....is DIY, just be careful

 

[CNGsaves]

Why not pursue an Interlock breaker that would be wired to a weatherproof plug outside for generator?? The interlock would prevent any chance of back-feeding as main breaker would have to be in Off position in order for the generator breaker to be in On position.

Then your 7 Kw generator would be available to power ANY breaker in whole house, depending of course on power of generator to carry load.

Electrician would be more likely to install the Interlock, rather than those temporary transfer switches.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

those are geared up for temporary use...and are pretty straight forward to install...Many electricians will not install them, nor will local AHJ allow them, as he could be liable in the event that something backfeeds the infrastructure or the homeowner will not use them correctly.

Not sure why you would suggest that these could backfeed the infrastructure. The Reliance units the OP links to are designed to make that pretty much impossible unless there is a component failure.

You install the new panel and move the critical circuits to the breakers installed in it. Then the new panel connects to the main panel via one double pole breaker, the generator inputs to the new panel and the switching allows either the generator or the main panel to power the new subpanel, but not both. Backfeeding is prevented by these panels.

The only problem with these panels, is that you can only power, with the generator, what is connected to them. The fridge, freezer, a few lights, etc.

If you install a manual interlock, you can power anything on your main panel, so long as you don't overload the genny. Need hot water? turn off virtually everything else, heat up the water, then turn off the water heater, turn on something else, and so on. Fully manual systems require some mechanical ability and understanding of the system to successfully operate them.

Charles

 

[pattenp]

I have a 7500 watt gen that I plug into an outside power inlet that is fed to a double pole 30A breaker that is on an interlock with the main breaker. If you are not familiar with interlocks look here.... http://www.interlockkit.com/?gclid=CMHEm-3P-bkCFZKk4AodF3QAyw

 

[cj8lvr]

I'm digging this scenario some of y'all are suggesting with the Interlock on the main.
I like that and I think the cost of that beats most any other option I see. Plus, I think I can probably get that one installed on my own without having to pay an electrician.
I do think I'll have to move my top two breakers down elsewhere in the box however but that's no biggie.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Yeah, that interlockkit website seems pretty easy if you have a panel that they make a bracket for.

 

[brewchief]

Some panel manufacturers have their own version of the interlock kit, I bought one for my Square D homeline panel last year at the supply house and it was under 50$ vs 149$ from that interlock company.

 

[malibu101]

I have a 7500 watt gen that I plug into an outside power inlet that is fed to a double pole 30A breaker that is on an interlock with the main breaker. If you are not familiar with interlocks look here.... http://www.interlockkit.com/?gclid=CMHEm-3P-bkCFZKk4AodF3QAyw

I have the exact same setup.
So simple, easy, and safe that I have had "fire drills" with the wife and oldest son and they have proven that even they know how to do it.

Although they still have a printed order of operation flowchart to follow if I am not there when this is needed.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Why not pursue an Interlock breaker that would be wired to a weatherproof plug outside for generator??

I concur !

 

[texasfiremedic]

I know that I'm going to catch flack but here it goes..

I assume that your doing this for Hurricane events or wide spread power failures. This is what I do it may not be perfect but it works. If you don't have a main breaker to the house or a disconnect to the line supply. Pull your meter (to diconnect form the line so to not feed the distrubition lines). If you do have a disconnect the pull your disconnect and place it in a safe place. Then you can wire in directly below your disconnect or at the breaker box. Then you can feed your house and select which circuits you want on inside the house. (Don't run the AC the initial draw may just humm it out.) Also shutdown every once and a while to make sure your connectons are not getting warm Once power is restored then shut down, disconnect from disconnect or circuit breaker shut off all breakers and put back in your disconnect or meter. If you pull your meter then you will have to call electric company to retag the meter. By the way you shut down all breakers so you don't arch at the meter.

I have done it both ways using a miller welding machine and ran for about two weeks shutting down at night and to put more fuel in. Our event was an ice storm.
Now that being said this may not be the best way to get your emergency power but it works for me. The electric company did come by and looked and asked if it was disconnected from the grid. They did not have problem with what I did as long as I was not connect to the lines.
Also, I live in the sticks so I don't have to go through inspections.

 

[pattenp]

You're right about that.

I know that I'm going to catch flack but here it goes..

I assume that your doing this for Hurricane events or wide spread power failures. This is what I do it may not be perfect but it works. If you don't have a main breaker to the house or a disconnect to the line supply. Pull your meter (to diconnect form the line so to not feed the distrubition lines). If you do have a disconnect the pull your disconnect and place it in a safe place. Then you can wire in directly below your disconnect or at the breaker box. Then you can feed your house and select which circuits you want on inside the house. (Don't run the AC the initial draw may just humm it out.) Also shutdown every once and a while to make sure your connectons are not getting warm Once power is restored then shut down, disconnect from disconnect or circuit breaker shut off all breakers and put back in your disconnect or meter. If you pull your meter then you will have to call electric company to retag the meter. By the way you shut down all breakers so you don't arch at the meter.

I have done it both ways using a miller welding machine and ran for about two weeks shutting down at night and to put more fuel in. Our event was an ice storm.
Now that being said this may not be the best way to get your emergency power but it works for me. The electric company did come by and looked and asked if it was disconnected from the grid. They did not have problem with what I did as long as I was not connect to the lines.
Also, I live in the sticks so I don't have to go through inspections.

 

[JoeFin]

I have a 7500 watt gen that I plug into an outside power inlet that is fed to a double pole 30A breaker that is on an interlock with the main breaker. If you are not familiar with interlocks look here.... http://www.interlockkit.com/?gclid=CMHEm-3P-bkCFZKk4AodF3QAyw

Notice he doesn't sell the "Convenience Outlet" or Genset Cable.

Not that matters, folks are going to install it anyways. But should an inspector stumble across the connected set up you will more then likely be Red Tagged

The Convenience Outlet would have to be "Male Pronged" with a line of sight disconnect. When I see these set ups in Code Compliant applications they have the special ordered Male Pronged outlet attached to the bottom of the Safety Disconnects

 

[pattenp]

You shouldn't back feed outlets with generators. I have a "Power Inlet" which is approved for generator power connection to the house. Calling it a "Convenience Outlet" is improper. Also what code says the power inlet must have a disconnect in line of sight? The cord plug is the disconnect. Also my setup using the breaker interlock with the power inlet was inspected and approved. And the site I linked does sell the inlets and cords.

Notice he doesn't sell the "Convenience Outlet" or Genset Cable.

Not that matters, folks are going to install it anyways. But should an inspector stumble across the connected set up you will more then likely be Red Tagged

The Convenience Outlet would have to be "Male Pronged" with a line of sight disconnect. When I see these set ups in Code Compliant applications they have the special ordered Male Pronged outlet attached to the bottom of the Safety Disconnects

I have a 7500 watt gen that I plug into an outside power inlet that is fed to a double pole 30A breaker that is on an interlock with the main breaker. If you are not familiar with interlocks look here.... http://www.interlockkit.com/?gclid=CMHEm-3P-bkCFZKk4AodF3QAyw

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You shouldn't back feed outlets with generators. I have a "Power Inlet" which is approved for generator power connection to the house. Calling it a "Convenience Outlet" is improper. Also what code says the power inlet must have a disconnect in line of sight? The cord plug is the disconnect. Also my setup using the breaker interlock with the power inlet was inspected and approved. And the site I linked does sell the inlets and cords.

Not trying to be a jerk but the site u linked to calls it a convenience outlet!!

 

[JoeFin]

Not trying to be a jerk but the site u linked to calls it a convenience outlet!!

Exactly what I noticed too

 

[pattenp]

Me neither... but this is the text from their web page.

Generator Convenience Inlet Kits, Boxes and Cords

Convenience Inlet Boxes
Waterproof Inlet Box serves as an inlet to plug in your Generator to the outside of your house.

The label using the word outlet in the diagram is wrong.

http://www.interlockkit.com/optionalparts01.htm

Not trying to be a jerk but the site u linked to calls it a convenience outlet!!