Kobalt ratchets/sockets/etc. going to China?

[ishiboo]

Over on SD and a couple other areas I've seen people saying that a new Kobalt line is coming out which will be China. There are already newer "Kobalt" sets for months which are China origin, which have no epoxy coloring on SAE/Metric and are obviously much cheaper compared to the Taiwan stuff many of us like.

Is this true? Will Kobalt just be another Task Force soon? I'm fine with China as a COO - GearWrench does it with success, and the new Craftsman looks better than the last Danaher stuff IMO, but I don't see a reason to make junk.

I guess the good news is if it does get replaced, I can buy all the stuff I need on clearance...

 

[ishiboo]

Actually, let me rephrase... "getting a lot cheaper quality" vs "going to China" is a much better question. Sorry!

 

[Thephranc]

Just because it comes from China doesn't mean it will be junk. China manufactures to specs given to it from the customer. If quality is low thats because low quality was asked for.

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ ^ Are you working at China factory producting tools ??

 

[scaron]

i thought all the kobalt stuff has been made in china for a while now??

 

[CWP1616L]

i thought all the kobalt stuff has been made in china for a while now??

The sockets have been pretty good quality made in Taiwan.

Everything else Kobalt is junk from China.

 

[kippieland]

Wrenches haven't been bad either...Taiwan made.

I check Lowes.com and they still show their Taiwan made Ratchets, but they also so a "Blue Hawk" line that looks more like the "Task Force" stuff. Maybe they are adding to lines or going to replace the Kobalt stuff all together

 

[Super Sport]

Wrenches haven't been bad either...Taiwan made.

I check Lowes.com and they still show their Taiwan made Ratchets, but they also so a "Blue Hawk" line that looks more like the "Task Force" stuff. Maybe they are adding to lines or going to replace the Kobalt stuff all together

From what I could tell last time I was there, they are replacing the Task Force line with Blue Hawk. TF stuff was being closed out and new BH stuff was taking it's place...

 

[BDT/NWMN]

The sockets have been pretty good quality made in Taiwan.

Everything else Kobalt is junk from China.

I bought "my share" of USA Kobalt combination wrenches on clearance from Cripes .. about a month or so ago.... grab them while you can... you fellow tool hoarding buzzards

 

[mech-tech]

I know on my kobalt 3/8 socket set after just 6 months of use, half of the sockets have the etched in sizes worn off. But I abuse them to no end.

 

[Zeroek]

I abuse my kobalt 19mm 1/2'' impact socket with no problems yet. But in time itll crack.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I've got a couple Kobalt items...they are no Truck brand, but all things considered a wonderful tool.
Biggest thing Kobalt has going for it is Lowes. I've personally always been pleased & surprised at how well they handle customer service. NEVER had an issue there where I walked away disappointed. Because of that its my 1st and usually only stop when I need those odds & ends. COO could be Antarctica for all I care and I wouldn't sweat it buying from Lowes.

 

[doan]

Kobalt has 2 lines of socket sets. The "real" Kobalt is made in taiwan and the sockets are color coded with red or blue stripes to indicate inch or metric.

The cheap "china" Kobalt shows up in those discount kits and looks like taskforce.

 

[allinon72]

Lowes seems to be on a path to absolute bargain basement prices and cheap quality. The Walmart strategy. The tools are about the only department where the quality isn't already absolute ****. Some of the things Lowes sells should be in a dollar store.

 

[Davefr]

Lowes seems to be on a path to absolute bargain basement prices and cheap quality. The Walmart strategy. The tools are about the only department where the quality isn't already absolute ****. Some of the things Lowes sells should be in a dollar store.

Just like HD, Sears, HF, K-Mart, etc, etc, etc.

That's because the average US consumer has a love affair with cheap Chinese goods and price trumps quality/COO.

I'm sure retailers would love to sell higher end products, since margins would generally be higher, but demand would be too small to justify the shelf space.

 

[Thephranc]

^ ^ ^ Are you working at China factory producting tools ??

No. I just have a working knowledge of item procurement and dealing with China. They make quality tools but companies wont import them because of unwarranted bigotry. Most Americans will see a made in USA tool next to a made in China tool for the same price and pick the USA tool assuming its better quality. Try going to China and seeing what it sells in China. You would be surprised at the quality.

 

[pendragon1998]

I don't think it's bigotry. China just has a track record of producing **** to the point that 'made in China' became synonymous with junk. Was that because American companies specify the low quality? Maybe. But it doesn't matter... they destroyed their national 'brand'. Add to that the many issues Americans and other folks have with the political and cultural situation over there, and it's not really a surprise some Americans tend to not like Chinese made goods.

 

[SMKS]

Are these new Chinese sets a series of lower-priced models?

Could they be adding some cheaper Chinese sets at a price point slightly below the Taiwanese sets?

I wouldn't get my pants in a wad until the relatively new Taiwanese tools and sets start widely being replaced with Chinese sets.

 

[rsanter]

I used to work for a company that outsourced some of it's stuff to china.
I didn't like it but that's what it was.
What I learned for sure is that you can get quality out of china IF you are willing to pay for it.
China companies are masters of cutting cost and cutting corners if you let them.....to the point that quality and functionality will completely disappear.

The problem......if you want quality out of china, and you are willing to pay for it.....the price (with shipping factored in) can start to get very close to made in the USA.
Other than the benefits of no EPA rules building quality in china has limited benefits.

I know a guy that is part owner of a casting facility in china. They used to casting here but not anymore.
We always got great quality stuff from him because he was on top of things there. He said that the move to china was because the EPA and OSHA rules along with energy costs made it unprofitable to cast iron in CA anymore

Bob

 

[ishiboo]

Just because it comes from China doesn't mean it will be junk. China manufactures to specs given to it from the customer. If quality is low thats because low quality was asked for.

I think I addressed this in my second post. My concern is not COO - the GearWrench China/Craftsman China stuff seems great - but I am worried about a drop to a lower quality Kobalt.

I don't think it's bigotry. China just has a track record of producing **** to the point that 'made in China' became synonymous with junk. Was that because American companies specify the low quality? Maybe. But it doesn't matter... they destroyed their national 'brand'. Add to that the many issues Americans and other folks have with the political and cultural situation over there, and it's not really a surprise some Americans tend to not like Chinese made goods.

Exactly. The fact that **** is made in China is simply because China is probably the only place that has the manufacturing capabilities they do AND the low labor rates/etc. It's not that all China can produce is ****, it's that China is one of the only places you can have anything made for that price.

Kobalt has 2 lines of socket sets. The "real" Kobalt is made in taiwan and the sockets are color coded with red or blue stripes to indicate inch or metric.

The cheap "china" Kobalt shows up in those discount kits and looks like taskforce.

Exactly, I think I covered all that? But what they are saying is ALL Kobalt will be clearanced and replaced with the China stuff, and that will be the new Kobalt.

 

[kippieland]

From what I could tell last time I was there, they are replacing the Task Force line with Blue Hawk. TF stuff was being closed out and new BH stuff was taking it's place...

Make sense since Blue Hawk is one of their house names.

 

[zkling]

Wouldn't surprise me if the did.

 

[Dave455]

Just because it comes from China doesn't mean it will be junk. China manufactures to specs given to it from the customer. If quality is low thats because low quality was asked for.

It shouldn't, but it does!

I have yet to see ANTHING made in China that I would consider good quality, and as far as tools are concerned most are not even fit for the purpose!

The problem seems to be that they don't have decent raw materials, they don't have experience in working them, don't have an understanding of how the tool is to be used, and have, for many generations, worked on the principle that provided a tool 'looks like a Yankee tool' you will probably find somebody undiscerning enough to part with some 'Yankee Dollars' for it!

I have been hearing statements similar to the one above for 20 years plus! I first heard this exact same line from the technical director of a British machine tool manufacturer. They were outsourcing and I wanted a British made machine while I could get it! Good job I did, the Chinese machines were shite! So, if it's feasible to get decent stuff from China, how come nobody has ever done it?

China manufacturing remains the preserve of managers who know nothing of manufacturing, and are tempted by the (false) promise of finished goods without risk, and high (but short term) profits by selling Chinese goods with a western brand name!

Don't expect me to support that strategy ever! I like good tools too much!

 

[buening]

Not exactly tool related, but the San Francisco Bay Bridge was built using Chinese steel and they are paying dearly for it. One of many examples:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/u-AgCBa26vc?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Even with strict requirements/standards, Chinese steel just isn't what it should be. Caltrans will learn their lesson on this one, as I expect fatigue issues with the steel members years down the road.

Chinese can produce parts to tight tolerances, but material quality is their achilles heel. Russia recently found this out with their chinese-made rocket, and a funny quote by the Russians: “Russia is currently unable to create equipment that can work in space for a long time. We buy it from China, where they cannot make such equipment either,”

 

[SteveCh]

Over the past year or more, I have picked up and looked at quite a number of Kobalt tools at the only Lowe's near me. I think 99% of it has been Chinese made, so unless my particular store is different, the Kobalt line is Chinese and has been for some time. The prices are almost ridiculously low, but the quality and build of the things I've looked at are also low. I haven't bought a single Kobalt item and probably won't. The stuff just doesn't look any good to me.

 

[Thephranc]

It shouldn't, but it does!

I have yet to see ANTHING made in China that I would consider good quality, and as far as tools are concerned most are not even fit for the purpose!

The problem seems to be that they don't have decent raw materials, they don't have experience in working them, don't have an understanding of how the tool is to be used, and have, for many generations, worked on the principle that provided a tool 'looks like a Yankee tool' you will probably find somebody undiscerning enough to part with some 'Yankee Dollars' for it!

I have been hearing statements similar to the one above for 20 years plus! I first heard this exact same line from the technical director of a British machine tool manufacturer. They were outsourcing and I wanted a British made machine while I could get it! Good job I did, the Chinese machines were shite! So, if it's feasible to get decent stuff from China, how come nobody has ever done it?

China manufacturing remains the preserve of managers who know nothing of manufacturing, and are tempted by the (false) promise of finished goods without risk, and high (but short term) profits by selling Chinese goods with a western brand name!

Don't expect me to support that strategy ever! I like good tools too much!

Is your computer ****? Your phone? Your TV?

 

[Brownsfan]

I own a few Kobalt tools. Some sockets and ratchets. They clearly say Taiwan right on the tool. Kobalt pliers and screwdrivers are china. The ratchets, sockets and wrenches are Taiwan as far as I know. The stuff I have has been pretty good with no issues to report.

 

[Hyster Gareth]

It's a shame as Kobalt's original tools made by JH Williams were very good.

 

[Skin]

Not exactly tool related, but the San Francisco Bay Bridge was built using Chinese steel

I remember reading about that bridge some years back. I thought it was American steel, built in segments in China and then shipped to the US for assembly. No? Either way the whole project was definitely shameful.

 

[Dave455]

Is your computer ****? Your phone? Your TV?

My TV's Japanese, it's fine!

My phone was made by British Telecom in the U.K. It's fine also!

My computer? To be honest, I'm not impressed, but it was never designed for long term use!

And that's just the problem! The Chinese are used to building goods with a very short life. If you build electronic stuff there is a thory that it will be outdated in a few years so there's little point in making it last longer!

You cannot, however apply the same logic to tools! There are tools that feature in this website that have been handed down to son and grandson. I have yet to see any Chinese made tool that could be regularly used and passed down to a third generation!

 

[Nocturnal-G]

Current Kobalt stuff is great... I have a few sockets here and there and they work fine.

As for the China stuff... A majority is ****. I've seen a HF micro torch leak from the valve and cause a huge flame to shoot out from the top... Twice!

 

[mrjaw14]

Lowes outsourcing to china and having less selection = death of their tool business. If I crack a socket on a breaker bar and get a sub-par replacement (which I've never actually done by the way), I'm going SO, SK, wright, etc where as before I was happy enough to go to lowes for their decent kobalt line. I've got some kobalt sockets that I really like, I went with them over adding to my craftsman set because lowes was just around the corner and if they were offering a no qestions asked warranty, it's closer to lowes than sears. Their plier line has sucked for a while now though. misaligned jaws, spongy feeling, etc.

This past weekend I NEEDED a 11" 90o pair of pliers. Lowes ususally has some. I went to two different ones and they don't carry the 11" pliers any more. HD didn't have any either, was hoping they had kliens. Went to horrible freight and they had what I needed. Had to look through the bin to get a set with aligned jaws, but I found some. Cheaper and better quality than what I was looking for at lowes. I absolutly had to have them working on a vehicle. HF saved the day. I'll remember that next time I'm in a pinch. Had lowes not slimmed down their lineup, they could have saved the day. I probably won't make them my first stop next time.

 

[SteveCh]

I am a few minutes home from a Lowe's where I bought a small box of bolts. While there, thinking about this thread, I walked through the tool section and picked up a dozen or so different tools as I went down the aisle. Randomly. All hand tools. Every single one was made in China. I am no expert on where all Kobalt has tools made, but 100% of what I saw was Chinese. In the electrical section, all the new tools were Chinese made. 100%. A clerk asked me if I needed assistance, and I said, take me to the quality, American-made tools or even German or British or Japanese. He laughed and said, in that case he would have to take me to some other retailer than Lowe's.

At least he showed a sense of humor.

 

[Conductor562]

I wrote off Kobalt in the later part of the Danaher era and anything I have newer than that was acquired on warranty. I will say the ratchets were pretty impressive, but they were Taiwanese and came at a USA-ish price.

Lowe's is dead to me for all but the few items I can't get anywhere else within reasonable driving distance. When they dropped Milwaukee and most of the high quality hand tools they sold I had no reason to shop there for tools.

 

[SteveCh]

Yes, Lowe's is of much reduced interest to me other than hardware such as nuts and bolts. The Lowe's near me was set up in a store that used to be Eagle Hardware [I think "hardware" was in the name, anyhow it was Eagle]. Lowe's took over the inventory and still, years later, has a better and more complete selection of that hardware than any other Lowe's [or competitor] I've shopped.

But other than the hardware, everything else in tools and etc. has gone mediocre and import. I am sure some of that hardware is also import, but the things I am buying and using are good quality.

 

[BC1]

Is your computer ****? Your phone? Your TV?

My TV is made in Mexico, my computer and phone are ****.

 

[MJB24]

I am a few minutes home from a Lowe's where I bought a small box of bolts. While there, thinking about this thread, I walked through the tool section and picked up a dozen or so different tools as I went down the aisle. Randomly. All hand tools. Every single one was made in China. I am no expert on where all Kobalt has tools made, but 100% of what I saw was Chinese. In the electrical section, all the new tools were Chinese made. 100%. A clerk asked me if I needed assistance, and I said, take me to the quality, American-made tools or even German or British or Japanese. He laughed and said, in that case he would have to take me to some other retailer than Lowe's.

At least he showed a sense of humor.

Can you clarify if you mean China or Taiwan?? My lowes still has all sockets, combo wrenches(including stubbies), ratchets, extensions made in Taiwan. I still have not seen a picture of any socket or combo wrench labeled Kobalt and made in China.

 

[erswill]

Not exactly tool related, but the San Francisco Bay Bridge was built using Chinese steel and they are paying dearly for it. One of many examples:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/u-AgCBa26vc?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Even with strict requirements/standards, Chinese steel just isn't what it should be. Caltrans will learn their lesson on this one, as I expect fatigue issues with the steel members years down the road.

Chinese can produce parts to tight tolerances, but material quality is their achilles heel. Russia recently found this out with their chinese-made rocket, and a funny quote by the Russians: “Russia is currently unable to create equipment that can work in space for a long time. We buy it from China, where they cannot make such equipment either,”

"
Steel Rods: The Latest Metal Sourcing Debacle for SF-Oakland Bay Bridge

by Taras Berezowsky on March 28, 2013

Style: Commentary Category: Ferrous Metals, Metal Fabricated Parts, Sourcing Strategies



My editor and colleague Lisa Reisman once wrote, “Somebody once told me the best items to source from China ought to fit in shoe boxes. Whoever thought [granting the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge contract to Chinese suppliers] would save California money had a screw loose.”

Turns out, the screws that are loose – or, in this week’s case, cracked – come not from China, but from our backyard.

 

[AMC31B]

Can you clarify if you mean China or Taiwan?? My lowes still has all sockets, combo wrenches(including stubbies), ratchets, extensions made in Taiwan. I still have not seen a picture of any socket or combo wrench labeled Kobalt and made in China.

My lowes is the same way. 90% of the tools are made in Taiwan, you have to do some digging to find anything made in China. It is mostly the pliers and very inexpensive stuff like offset screwdrivers and such that are Chinese

 

[MJB24]

My lowes is the same way. 90% of the tools are made in Taiwan, you have to do some digging to find anything made in China. It is mostly the pliers and very inexpensive stuff like offset screwdrivers and such that are Chinese

The big Screwdrivers sets and individuals with the acrylic handle are even made in USA.

I do have a made in Taiwan Kobalt 4.5mm deep socket that I bought a few weeks ago which does not fit on the Kobalt socket racks which really irks me. Considering they are both Kobalt you would think it would fit.

I will have to grind the peg down to make it work.