Ok here's the deal I bought this house about a year ago it had a new whirlpool 50 gallon electric water heater installed the month I bought it. I haave used this unit for a little over a year with no problems well last Sunday the water went cold I have recently discovered this is a 240v unit hooked to 110v. There are currently no more spots in my breaker box to put a double pull breaker in. I have ohm checked the two heating elements both of them shows 12.4 ohms. There shows to be power to the unit. I ohm tested the wires going into the unit and visually inspected. One was questionable so I replaced it and had hot water for a few days. Now I have no hot water again. Whoever installed it put the red wire to white and blackto black and ground to ground screw on unit. When iI put my volt meter on either pole above the reset switch and the ground wire it shows like 124 volts but thermostats won't click on or off to power the elements. I know it needs 220v power to work to its full. Potential but its not in the budget for a few more months to hire a professional to upgrade my service and it worked fine for a year. Can anyone offer any suggestions?
need hot water heater help asap!
- Thread starter andrewt2
- Start date
pattenp
Well-known member
I'll admit I don't know everything but I've never seen a 50 gal electric water heater that uses only 120 volts. Are you sure about this? What is the model number?
RickP
Well-known member
You might be able to free up space for a double pole breaker pretty easily by combining two circuits on a tandem breaker. As long as the wire to the hw heater is sized correctly, this would probably be your cheapest fix.
rockwithjason
Well-known member
Drop one of your non essential circuits and use the space for the water heater until you upgrade the panel
Jagmandave
Well-known member
Are you asking how to make your 240V water heater work properly on 120V?
Or how to find 240V in your already crowded electrical box?
Or how to wire a sub panel to power the heater?
For option #2, when I needed a 240V supply for the A/C/heater I wanted to put in my attached garage and my box was full too, I found I had an unused breaker for an electric cook top that was no longer in the house (replaced by a gas unit) and appropriated it. Maybe you have something similar that you could use?
Or how to find 240V in your already crowded electrical box?
Or how to wire a sub panel to power the heater?
For option #2, when I needed a 240V supply for the A/C/heater I wanted to put in my attached garage and my box was full too, I found I had an unused breaker for an electric cook top that was no longer in the house (replaced by a gas unit) and appropriated it. Maybe you have something similar that you could use?
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Lets see a pic of your panel, It appears that you need to move the red wire and black wire to a double pole circuit breaker. Unless your panel is full of half size breakers, you can remove a couple of regular sized circuit breakers and replace them with tandems and that will free up enough circuit breaker spots to put in a proper double pole for the water heater.
Charles
Charles
Milton Shaw
Well-known member
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- Feb 11, 2011
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If it worked for a year it is probably hooked to 240 volts. Older houses that were wired with 2 wire romex did hook the red to white and the black to black. IF you do not have 240 volts then something is burned out or breaker is tripped. Get your volt meter and check back from heater to the box to find your problem.
Its for sure only 120 volts and it has 10/2 wiring to it. Its only got a single pull breaker going to it only. My panel schedule is loaded to the point I don't think I can take anything out. I never noticed slow recovery times because its just my wife and I and we both shower at different times. It shows 124v at the heater and 124v at the junction box whoever installed it tied it into right under the panel
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pattenp
Well-known member
I had to look it up and sure enough there are 120V water heaters. What gets me is the heating elements being 4500W. I assume your water heater has 4500W heating elements and at 120V that's 37.5 amps on #10 wire. What am I missing here? But back to the problem... does your heater have the energy saver control box on top of the tank? I have a Whirlpool water heater and the control circuit panel started to fail and was not heating properly until it finally died.
theres no energy saver control box panel that I see. just the two wires going into the main panel above the reset then the feed to the elements.
pattenp
Well-known member
Post the model number?
Whirpool E1F50RD045V
There's a wealth of information at waterheatertimer.org including troubleshooting, and instructions on how to replace practically every part on a water heater.
The 4500W 240V elements would be ~1125W each at 120V, wouldn't they?
His resistance measurement was 12.4 ohms. If I use the stated 124V, that looks like 10A load and 1240W. It won't be the fastest recovery water heater on the block, but I can tell you that not every house needs 4500W 240V elements to work for them. My lower element is a 1500W 240V element, my upper is a 3800W.
I have that Energy Smart Whirlpool unit that PattenP has. First thing I did was downgrade the elements so that the relay contacts wouldn't burn up. I read the reviews, but couldn't pass up an intelligent well insulated tank for $100 on clearance. With the 1500W lower element and a water heater timer, I coincide my daily peak solar generation with heating water.
The 4500W 240V elements would be ~1125W each at 120V, wouldn't they?
His resistance measurement was 12.4 ohms. If I use the stated 124V, that looks like 10A load and 1240W. It won't be the fastest recovery water heater on the block, but I can tell you that not every house needs 4500W 240V elements to work for them. My lower element is a 1500W 240V element, my upper is a 3800W.
I have that Energy Smart Whirlpool unit that PattenP has. First thing I did was downgrade the elements so that the relay contacts wouldn't burn up. I read the reviews, but couldn't pass up an intelligent well insulated tank for $100 on clearance. With the 1500W lower element and a water heater timer, I coincide my daily peak solar generation with heating water.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Are u sure every breaker in your panel is used? The picture is bad but it appears u have one double pole breaker in the upper right corner thats not being used. I cant tell if its a main disconnect or a branch circuit breaker. If it is indeed unused, swap it with the proper size double pole breaker for the water heater.
the one in the upper right is the main breaker for the whole system.
trainer
Well-known member
If your planning to upgrade in the future, it could be a good time to get an electrician to come look at it. Explain to him that you can't do the whole job right now, but you want it safe until you can do the entire upgrade.
It'll be a good opportunity to get to know the contractor and evaluate his work.
It'll be a good opportunity to get to know the contractor and evaluate his work.
Tried that too! the electrician I trust that wired my previous place is out of town for a week. I am just trying to get by for a little longer because cold showers stink!
pattenp
Well-known member
Here's the Whirlpool water heater trouble shooting web page.
http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.co...llation-videos-guides/troubleshooting-repair/
http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.co...llation-videos-guides/troubleshooting-repair/
pattenp
Well-known member
Based on your model # your water heater has 2 heating elements then it cannot be used on 120V. The 120V water heater only has 1 heating elements. I'm surprised it worked at all and didn't melt some wiring.
Here's the instruction manual.....
http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/owner-center/product-manuals/manuals/323099.pdf
Here's the instruction manual.....
http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/owner-center/product-manuals/manuals/323099.pdf
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
For resistance type loads, wouldnt the amperage be reduced with lower supply voltage? And in most water heaters, both elements are never on at the same time.
Since the elements were running at half their rated voltage, its no wonder their lifespan was shortened.
Zeke
Well-known member
Man, I can't make out that pic. It looks like the lower RH breaker is double tapped. But it seems for sure the WH is hooked to the neutral buss on one side.
What country you in??
Did you have home inspection?? Was there homeowner's warranty??
Was there "offset money" in house closing to replace that old electrical panel, or was it even looked at??
I'd run natural gas line over there and junk the idea of electric hot water.
Did you have home inspection?? Was there homeowner's warranty??
Was there "offset money" in house closing to replace that old electrical panel, or was it even looked at??
I'd run natural gas line over there and junk the idea of electric hot water.
The house was bought as a forclosure. No home inspection was done at the time I purchased it. I believe the house currently has 100 amp? service to it? but not positive. At any rate not sure how the water heater has worked since may of 2012 when I bought the place but it has and now it doesn't. Near as I can tell the heater only heated the top element then when it was satisfied it turns on the lower element? they don't both heat at the same time. were they suppose to?
Zeke
Well-known member
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
pattenp
Well-known member
You're right. I had my electrical conversion *** backwards in my head. The amps will be greatly less at 120V vs 240V.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
A water heater that is hot, or partially so, will operate the lower element only. If you draw enough water that the upper thermostat becomes cold, it takes over, and turns on the upper element, the idea being the top element will give you a little extra hot water right on top where it is drawing out. When the top thermostat becomes satisfied, it switches back to the lower thermostat and element, which continues to heat until it is satisfied and then it shuts off.
Difficult to make out the pic, but I agree, the white wire runs to the ground/neutral bar up top and the black appears to run to a single pole breaker. You will never get any more out of the heater until it is properly wired.
Charles
Difficult to make out the pic, but I agree, the white wire runs to the ground/neutral bar up top and the black appears to run to a single pole breaker. You will never get any more out of the heater until it is properly wired.
Charles
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
You're brain was probably automatically thinking of an inductive load like mine does sometimes!
Hawk
Well-known member
That is a 240v unit. Check to make sure which breaker it is connected to. It should be a tandem breaker. When I ran into a similar problem I found that one leg of the breaker was fried and the breaker had to be replaced. May not be the problem, but it is the simplest beginning.
So we've established it should (and did for over a year) work just greatly decreased from it full potential. But I'm still not sure why it's not working now. checking voltage at the power supply all the way up to the unit I have 124 volts when I connect red to white and black to black and go down to check voltage across the top of the heater above the reset button I come up with nothing. now if I take my red test probe and leave it on either of the terminals above the reset button then I take my black probe and put it to the ground wire on the top of the tank it shows 124v. the other day when it seemed to be functioning properly I was able to take my two test probes against both terminals above the reset button and it show the 124v. so not sure what has changed.
its definitely connected to a single pull breaker. the breaker that runs it and only it is the last breaker on the bottom right side of my box. whoever wired it has it going into a junction underneath the panel and then fed to the panel
Hawk
Well-known member
Here are the specs for that unit:
Water Heater Style Regular
Tank Capacity (Gallons) 50.0
Family Size 4.0
Warranty 6-year
Number of Elements 2.0
Element Wattage (Watts) 4500.0
Type of Element Copper
Voltage (Volts) 240.0
Height (Inches) 50.0
Here is an installation manual that should guide you:
http://homeappliance.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/whirlpool/e1f50rd045v.html?idRes=14836443
Water Heater Style Regular
Tank Capacity (Gallons) 50.0
Family Size 4.0
Warranty 6-year
Number of Elements 2.0
Element Wattage (Watts) 4500.0
Type of Element Copper
Voltage (Volts) 240.0
Height (Inches) 50.0
Here is an installation manual that should guide you:
http://homeappliance.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/whirlpool/e1f50rd045v.html?idRes=14836443
Hawk
Well-known member
Disregard the instructions for the 120 models and check your system against the 240 system. That is more of a generic manual than what I was looking for.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
If by tandem breaker u mean a breaker that only connects to one bus stab, then that will NOT give u 240v potential, as both poles on the breaker are connected to the same bus.
In the OPs case, one wire CLEARLY connects to the neutral bar thus only giving 120v potential to the heater.
I dont think u read the rest of the thread!
Is the reset button located on the heater? sounds like u have an open wire some where. Have any pics of what youre testing?
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Hawk
Well-known member
By tandem I mean one breaker that takes from both bus stabs=240. Yes I see that he only shows one obvious connection but can not see clearly enough to make sure that some Jackleg did not run one lead off of the lower breaker and another lead of off another breaker or possibly double stabbed of off a breaker. As a plumber for 20 years I have seen cases of both illegal practices. Andrew you don't show where you are located, but if you did there is a chance that one of the members could help you more.
Can you describe the wiring going into the junction box and then to the water heater, size, color. It would be very helpful if you post a pic of the elements and the thermostat.
Can you describe the wiring going into the junction box and then to the water heater, size, color. It would be very helpful if you post a pic of the elements and the thermostat.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
A tandem is different than a double pole breaker.
tandem breaker:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_12435-1318-Q2020_?PL=1&productId=1007893
double pole breaker:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-40...u=100112209&ci_kw=&ci_gpa=pla&ci_src=17588969
tandem breaker:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_12435-1318-Q2020_?PL=1&productId=1007893
double pole breaker:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-40...u=100112209&ci_kw=&ci_gpa=pla&ci_src=17588969
Hawk
Well-known member
Andrew do you have two black wires coming from the lower braker? I agree that is what it looks like in the pic. If that is the case then I have no idea how it ever worked.Have you checked the elements for continuity? Turn off the power and empty the tank before checking for continuity because in some cases the water can connect a break and give a false reading. And of course be sure to refill the tank before turning the power back on.
Hawk
Well-known member
Yes Wylie you are correct. I am just trying to give Andrew some guidance and I am sure that the mistake I made will make any advice given worthless.