KamiCrit
Well-known member
I am quite excited to see how the Gearwrench company will progress over the years. Anyh company that takes pride in the tools they make is sure to succeed.
GearWrench in the future?
- Thread starter Pudge87
- Start date
I'm just not seeing examples of Gearwrench copying snappy's tools.
Ratchets, non-ratcheting combination wrenches, and flare nut wrenches are the three most obvious categories of copying attempts by GearWrench. Duralast and GreatNeck are copycats too. They all try their best to copy, but they'll never be able duplicate the original. They don't have the technical expertise, the machinery, or the materials.
How did you come to this conclusion?
I'd think it's more to making just enough changes that they haven't violated any active patents (to keep their products from being seized at the port), and keeping production costs low. The latter could be accomplished with looser tolerances, not heat treating as well as Snap-On or other top tier brands, ... in order to reduce the defects produced (more off the line gets sold), speed up production, and save on energy costs for example.
But technically I suspect they could if they change their business model and go for an increase in quality vs. mass quantity at high margins with their existing manufacturing plants (expect they have very modern equipment, particularly in China, as those plants are likely rather new).
Lay off the Snap On Kool Aid. Fedwrench summed up the ratchets. Non-ratcheting combo's, they are designed according to what automotive mechanics want. Flare nut wrenches, I guess my Cornwells are a copy of Snap on. And as far as the other mumbo jumbo, isn't China one of the richest and smartest nations? Blame the big companies and US consumers for not paying/demanding for a better product.
How did you come to this conclusion?
I'd think it's more to making just enough changes that they haven't violated any active patents (to keep their products from being seized at the port), and keeping production costs low. The latter could be accomplished with looser tolerances, not heat treating as well as Snap-On or other top tier brands, ... in order to reduce the defects produced (more off the line gets sold), speed up production, and save on energy costs for example.
But technically I suspect they could if they change their business model and go for an increase in quality vs. mass quantity at high margins with their existing manufacturing plants (expect they have very modern equipment, particularly in China, as those plants are likely rather new).
LOL at Patent violations, In what world do you think China gives a **** about US patents? Ill let you guys argue about the Rest of it.. It what we do best here at GJ.
Nothing to do with China in this instance, but rather that Apex (GW is part of this group), and it's owner, are US based companies.
Now if it was part of Won Hung Lo industries out of China, I'd agree with you.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I don't know Merk, it might be time to get the meds updated...
We've argued this before more than a couple of times but, if Gearwrench emulated any truck brand's long pattern combination wrenches, it would be MATCO. The open ends between the two brands are dare I say, identical. Of course there are other differences in the shape of the beam, beam edges, and the noise the wrenches make when dropped on a concrete floor.
As for flare nut wrenches, both brands are chrome and are double open end. Aside from that even Ray Charles could see the differences. I already discussed ratchets but, I did forget that both brands comfort grips use the colors red and black. However, their pliers and screwdrivers look nothing alike. I also think the team at gearwrench are pretty smart looking at the products they offer and how far they've come in 10 years without a huge network of dealers. I think they have access to machinery too. Just look at how well their sockets are finished inside and out. Their materials seem to be good too. Gearwrench designs their tools for a certain price point and yet still be durable and well made. Of course, Gearwrench doesn't factor in truck to your service or earn while you pay credit which is a big chunk of snappy's costs. I guess will have to agree to disagree on this one.
MackMan
Well-known member
With only a few exceptions, the "Gear-Wrench" are my main wrench set.. I got a misc set of Snap-On at the Pawn Shop, and have a few misc Craftsman, but in the standard sizes GW is what I have. Since those experiences a set of non ratcheting Snap-On's have been added to my "want" list. I do have the combination Snap-On flare wrenches in SAE and love those.
Glad I'm not the only one either!
So are their non ratcheting wrenches OK on the open end? Or maybe this is something they've corrected in the last few years?
kythri
Well-known member
I haven't had any open-end slipping issue myself. I've got multiple different sets of the various style ratcheting wrenches, and I've got a full set of the non-ratcheting with GearWrench's version of the modified open end (Surface Drive Plus?).
I can't say I've used the open ends "a lot" but over the past few years, I have used them to assemble a few different HF items with the HF-supplied fasteners (i.e. "not likely the best fasteners available"), in addition to other items, and I've had to use open ends (on both reversibles, non-reversibles and non-ratcheting) to tighten/torque down a nut or bolt, and nothing has slipped or rounded.
Most recently, disassembling the Duster, we've had to resort to open ends to free stuck fasteners on a number of items, and they've performed admirably each time.
Obviously, I'm not doing this stuff full time, but I just don't ever see this "open end spreading" issue that's always bantered about. The only time I've ever had an issue with an open end rounding a fastener is when I chose the wrong size or style (i.e. grabbed an SAE because I failed to inspect to see if it was a metric fastener).
I can't say I've used the open ends "a lot" but over the past few years, I have used them to assemble a few different HF items with the HF-supplied fasteners (i.e. "not likely the best fasteners available"), in addition to other items, and I've had to use open ends (on both reversibles, non-reversibles and non-ratcheting) to tighten/torque down a nut or bolt, and nothing has slipped or rounded.
Most recently, disassembling the Duster, we've had to resort to open ends to free stuck fasteners on a number of items, and they've performed admirably each time.
Obviously, I'm not doing this stuff full time, but I just don't ever see this "open end spreading" issue that's always bantered about. The only time I've ever had an issue with an open end rounding a fastener is when I chose the wrong size or style (i.e. grabbed an SAE because I failed to inspect to see if it was a metric fastener).
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MackMan
Well-known member
Maybe something that's been corrected more recently, or maybe I just got a bad set
I know that in the cases I have tried to use the open end it hasn't worked, and a Snap-On wrench or Craftsman 6-point socket of the same size worked splendidly. This scared me off from GW, but maybe they are worth a second look for my budget and "immediate need" tools.Loscaldazar
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2013
- Messages
- 2,385
I've had one case where my CMAN 13MM wouldn't hold the damn tie rod arm from spinning (kept spreading) and the GW one did. Other than that, never had a problem with an open end on anything.
Longer than I think we assume. I only know a few people that are DIYers among the people I know out here in Utah. Having seen a couple of their tool sets, they don't buy quality. They buy what's cheapest (quality and price).
So, Cman may be okay since their offering junky tool lines for the person that rarely uses tools.
They don't make any money off of me, anymore, since I purchased all the Cman I'll ever need years ago. Now, if anything, I purchase higher-end tools as replacements or for specialty items.
I do own some GW and I like it but I just don't think of them when it comes to hammers, screw drivers, levels, snips, sockets, etc.
I have GW hammers, screwdrivers, sockets, prybars, etc...
hammers - nothing special, maybe a step up from HFT
prybars - very nice, innovative with their indexing heads, etc.
screwdrivers - this is the one thing I think people always miss out on... they are very nice in my opinion. grab on fasteners is superb, grip/handles are very comfortable, and they have a wide variety of lengths and sizes. to top it all off, the shafts are magnetic right out of the box. i've been using them for some time now and have seen them worn down a bit. But, it's mostly the black oxide coating on the tip that rubs off over a lot of use, the metal of the tip is pretty solid. (I don't use the slotted drivers as chisels though) one thing I don't like is that they laser etch the size and model number on the shaft in tiny print and it's hard to read.
sockets - I really like them... i don't have as much GW sockets as I do CM sockets, but from what I can see, I think GW sockets are better than CM sockets.
pliers - about the same quality as WF or the old Craftsman Pro stuff. they have a few innovative double-X pliers that are like the Crescent ones. personally, I think comparable to the Channellocks I just bought, but definitely not as nice as Knipex.
MackMan
Well-known member
And what does Snap-On imply?
A lot of equipment mechanics around me still use craftsman tools for the same reason I do, the warrenty. Working on old equipment requires you to abuse your tools in one way or another to get the job done, especially working out in the field when they need the quioment back up and running. But for me, lowes is way closer and has the same warrenty, so thats where I go now. No one in my area stocks anything more than basic wrenches and a hand full of sockets for gearwrench, so if I break one, I still have to go buy a local brand to finish a job anyway. The day craftsman handles warrenty the way harbor freight does, then I will switch.
kythri
Well-known member
Quite frankly, you face that with any brand. I would concede that some brands are going to be less likely than others, but, you have absolutely no guarantee that ANY brand isn't going to decide to build a lower quality tool, lower their QA/QC, outsource, etc.
That's the boat I'm in right now - if any of my Craftsman raised-panel stuff needs replacement, I'm going to likely end up receiving something different than what I bought. For a number of my purchases, I knew that going into it (I know I'm not the only one who bought Craftsman Professional stuff when it was being cleared out).
I'll make up my mind what to do about a less-than-desirable replacement when and if I need that.
Heck, who knows - maybe this is how a lot of "piecemeal" tool collections started?
or simply go out of business. you're right, there are no guarantees in life; none.
I remember when I was living in NY, there was this video/audio place called Y.E.S. where I bought some stuff and even an extended warranty. They went out of business a year later, and my 3 yr warranty was worthless. Unfortunate for me, my receiver crapped out too.
honestly, the warranty of a product isn't the dominating factor in my purchasing decisions. sure, it is perhaps a differentiator; if brand A has a better warranty over brand B, with all else equal, I would buy brand A. But if brand A was a low quality tool, or less functional, more expensive, etc. I would consider brand B over brand A even if brand B had no warranty at all.
I will agree that with any company its a **** shoot. The problem I see is flooding the stores of Sears and it gets a lot worse before it gets better. COO doesn't bother me as much but keep the quality the same. Its just I can temporally see one company going up, another going down. At least with GW you knew you were buying import, so you can't argue COO.
Brownsfan
Well-known member
Would the whole craftsman china thing been as bad if they pretty much took gearwrench tools and labeled them craftsman? I guess it's not that far fetched since Apex is making craftsman and gearwrench. I'm talking the whole hand tool line up top to bottom all re-labeled gearwrench.
Nothing to do with China in this instance, but rather that Apex (GW is part of this group), and it's owner, are US based companies.
Now if it was part of Won Hung Lo industries out of China, I'd agree with you.
I will agree with that in regards to GW, Not because im fluent in patent law in regards to whether it applies to "Where" the Product is Sold or Manufactured and whether or not the Parent companies location has anything to do with it. Ill mainly agree because I see nothing in the GW lineup that Replicates any outside companies Product outside of Apex's other subsidiaries.
Wakefield
Well-known member
I would assume that any brand that moves towards China away from USA or Taiwan is more interested in competing in the market for low cost rather than quality.
Perhaps there is a difference between owning/building your own factory in China vs. simply contracting to the cheapest supplier you can find there. But there might be issues of the laws there or of industrial secrets not being safe.
Perhaps there is a difference between owning/building your own factory in China vs. simply contracting to the cheapest supplier you can find there. But there might be issues of the laws there or of industrial secrets not being safe.
zakmartin
Well-known member
I'd put the next "middle class" tool manufacturer between Gearwrench and S-K Tools. You might throw Armstrong in the mix as well, and even possibly Lisle, if they expand their tool line. Of course, you can't forget Harbor Freight, which is cashing in on quantity over quality - capitalism at its finest. Craftsman will only be a player as long as Sears is still around, and I think that their days are numbered. Also, I have a feeling that the truck brands are facing a loss of customers given their COO changeover on what are pushed as "premium, professional tools." at premium, professional prices. You see more and more professionals buying Bluepoint over Snap-on, so Snap-on may have to move more of its manufacturing overseas or simply re-brand its Bluepoint tool line back to Snap-on in order to stay solvent.
Niche premium tool companies like Proto and Wright will probably do okay as long as they really push their "Made With Pride in America" marketing strategies and don't try to expand their production to meet a consumer base that isn't there (this will keep their prices lower, at least until demand picks up).
As far as GearWrench goes, I only have a few of their tools, but what I've seen as of late isn't that bad. It's sort of where Craftsman was back in the late 1980's through the early 1990's. I have noticed that over the past few years, they've gotten much better than they were early on. GearWrench has now surpassed itself in terms of quality from when they made tools in the USA, to be honest.
Niche premium tool companies like Proto and Wright will probably do okay as long as they really push their "Made With Pride in America" marketing strategies and don't try to expand their production to meet a consumer base that isn't there (this will keep their prices lower, at least until demand picks up).
As far as GearWrench goes, I only have a few of their tools, but what I've seen as of late isn't that bad. It's sort of where Craftsman was back in the late 1980's through the early 1990's. I have noticed that over the past few years, they've gotten much better than they were early on. GearWrench has now surpassed itself in terms of quality from when they made tools in the USA, to be honest.
zakmartin
Well-known member
People selling NOS USA-made Craftsman and Craftsman Professional stuff on fleabay are making a killing because people dont want to turn in broken tools for new ones that are made overseas. I've seen NOS Craftsman Pro USA wrench sets that were on clearance for $49 2 years ago sell for $300 +.
John316
Well-known member
Extended warranties are usually managed by a warranty company like N.E.W., GE, Warrantch, etc and are merely sold by retailers. Often customers believe if the retailer goes under that the warranty is worthless, but this is not the case. You need to read the warranty docs that they were supposed to give you when you purchased the warranty. Even if YES kept the warranties in house (which I highly doubt) there would be a legal process to settle or redeem the warranty, which is regulated as an insurance product.
I work for an electronics company and I have dealt with this issue many times over the years.
just FYI