Just had polyurea floor installed, some q!

[wantonsoup]

Based on my lurking around the site, I chose a polyaspartic floor coating for my residential garage and they came out this morning.

I'm not thrilled initially because the jerk who showed up had an attitude, demanded to hook into my electrical panel for their 220 line which meant running a line from my basement through an open door (in 40 degree weahter this morning), even though I have a 40-amp 220 line IN THE GARAGE and an unused 220v dryer outlet in the mud room too! And they touted their product as VOC-free with no odor and my house is a toxic waste dump right now. Looks good though.

1) Took them about 3 hours to grind and finish the floor, it's an oversized 3-car garage at about 750 sq ft. Everyone I talked to, including this place, said it was going to take all day. They're done in 3 hours. Did they shortcut the process?

2) The smell leads me to believe maybe they cut the polyurea with solvent to thin it out and cheat the price or something? It's giving all of us serious headaches already and is gross to smell.

Thanks for the input.

 

[shaun oriold1]

Ooof.

I cant comment on the company who did the job - they sound mickey mouse though. I guess you should have done some research first on their reputation... To address your comments. I have heard of a few companies tap into the electrical panel as well. Its sketchy! I use a generator, so I dont have to tap into your house. My fear is that your 20+ year old Air Con dies co-coincidently while I have it unhooked, and you blame me, as I touched the wiring last. Let along touching a a live electrical panel! He might not have gone into your dryer, or garage 220, as his machine might be a different amperage, and not allot the plugs to connect. Where as the fuse panel is just twisting up wires.

As for the grinding time. Its possible that it could have been profiled in 3 hours. My machine will bang out a 2 car garage (400 sq) in about an hour. A good machine, with proper diamonds is very efficient - so dont sweat it. Did you see the floor after it was profiled? Most of my customers are curious to see the process, and I'll happily educate them as I go.

For the smell. its too hard to say if they cut it - who knows. My polyaspartic doesnt smell much. With any sort of venting, it wont be noticeable. If I coat a basement mechanical room with a closed door, sure it will smell slightly. Gone in 24 hours though.

Good luck.

 

[wantonsoup]

Thanks for the reply! I have a few more urgent questions

Now about 7 hours after they finished, and the garage doors opened for 5 hours, the smell is dissipating, but still very strong in the garage.. I called the owner and he acted like I was a fool for not opening the garage doors, when I was never instructed to! They left the garage a few inches open on little wood stands and didn't say a word to me about it. In fact I didn't really get any instructions or explanation of anything today.

Should this strong odor lead me to believe that this is NOT a VOC-free polyaspartic product they applied? (which is what they advertise and the owner told me they used) It smells sort of like paint, or paint thinner. It reminds me very much of the smell of the oil sealant used on my hardwood floors a few years ago. Very pungent, in your eyes and throat, etc.

Worse, there are streaks or brush marks and some light pooling on the floor. I originally thought it was just still drying and there were wet spots still. But now I see that it's just a gloss I'm seeing and the more I look, the more streaks I'm seeing.

Should I assume that any issues like the streaking are not easily corrected?

Sigh.

BTW this place gets high marks on Yelp and Angies. I just feel like this just was rushed or something. The chip distribution is good, the color is good, but seeing it from more than a foot away just shows so many waves and flaws.

The garage floor is about 5 years old, in excellent condition. Cracks only in the expansion joints, no stains or anything like that. I figured this would be not only a good candidate for the coating but a dream job for the installers as well. Now I'm left with a sinking feeling that I spent $3k on a substandard job. I just checked BBB and they have an F rating. Of course I check NOW. And.. I just checked the Yelp "filtered" reviews and it's two horrible reviews that are recent.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Pap is typically less smelly then most urethane coatings and it goes away much faster. Definitely not voc free.

 

[dcs Inc]

Voc compliant and voc clear are to different animals.

 

[neuropac]

Pics please I enjoy seeing new floors

 

[wantonsoup]

Well this company's website says:

Does the application smell?
We use Espartic polyaspartic polyureas, which have zero VOCs (Volatile Organic Compounds). There are no solvents in the product that cause strong odors.

It's been 36 hours and still reeks in there like solvent. So clearly he's not using the product he's advertising. And a few people online complained that his coating turned yellow. I may have to scrape a sample and send to a lab.

At the 28 hour mark after they finished today I walked on it and you can see my footprints in it when you look at an angle. It feels very hard to the touch and I'm just hoping it's dust/dirt on my shoes but it's very noticeable in the high gloss finish.

I'd still like to get feedback on whether it's a small job or a complete re-do to work out roller marks.

 

[dcs Inc]

Hmmm, Keep a record of everything. Officially log a complaint and see where it goes.

 

[wantonsoup]

With who?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Well this company's website says:

It's been 36 hours and still reeks in there like solvent. So clearly he's not using the product he's advertising. And a few people online complained that his coating turned yellow. I may have to scrape a sample and send to a lab.

At the 28 hour mark after they finished today I walked on it and you can see my footprints in it when you look at an angle. It feels very hard to the touch and I'm just hoping it's dust/dirt on my shoes but it's very noticeable in the high gloss finish.

I'd still like to get feedback on whether it's a small job or a complete re-do to work out roller marks.

Seriously, a real pap allows you to drive vehicles across it in 24 hours and because it cures so fast the smell dissipates quickly.
If you are still smelling solvents and you left shoe prints in it they likely used a cheap polyurethane.

 

[wantonsoup]

Thanks for the replies, it seems like you are all installers but for some reason I keep asking questions that nobody is answering.

1) Can roller marks be repaired? Or do you need to start over and grind down to bare concrete again and start over?

2) Report him to WHO?

 

[pepi]

Was it a good deal, did you shop around?

"I'm not thrilled initially because the jerk who showed up had an attitude, "

I would have stopped right here, red flag waving. Shown him the door and told him I'd be in touch .......... much later.
Sorry to here you may have been hosed.

 

[shaun oriold1]

Thanks for the replies, it seems like you are all installers but for some reason I keep asking questions that nobody is answering.

1) Can roller marks be repaired? Or do you need to start over and grind down to bare concrete again and start over?

2) Report him to WHO?

Not to be a jerk here but you might as well calm down a bit. Seeing as its already applied, and you're not happy, its probably going to have to be either re-coated on top, or scrapped off and coated again (different company or same...) It probably cant be fixed in a timely manner, so trying to ask hurried questions on here isn't going to help anything.

If there are roller marks in the top coat that you can see. It isnt going to disappear. They're there! Same with shoe prints. I tell my customers to keep off till the next day. But its usually good in 4-6 hours. You're well past that point. You can re-coat on top of a top coat. However if its cured, it needs to be sanded out, and scuffed up. If you're not happy with the job at all. And you feel its been profiled poorly. maybe starting over with another company is the way to go. Did they ( or you) happen to take pictures of the floor once it had been profiled, but before the epoxy went down? You might be able to reference them to see what the next step might be.

How did you pay? Cheque, or Credit card. If so, call the company and tell them you want the owner out to check out the floor right away, and you're going to cancel his payment! Maybe call one of the other flooring companies you got a quote from ( you did do your research didnt you, and got other quotes) Pay them $100 to come out and give you their professional opinion.

Did they give you some sort of written warranty? did you see some of their work prior to going ahead?

Maybe put up some pictures. A picture from the back of the garage aiming out ( with sun setting on the floor) should expose any lap marks, or errors in the top coat.

Shaun.

 

[shaun oriold1]

Thanks for the reply! I have a few more urgent questions

Now about 7 hours after they finished, and the garage doors opened for 5 hours, the smell is dissipating, but still very strong in the garage.. I called the owner and he acted like I was a fool for not opening the garage doors, when I was never instructed to! They left the garage a few inches open on little wood stands and didn't say a word to me about it. In fact I didn't really get any instructions or explanation of anything today.
.

Its common practice to close a garage door. If its left open it will allow dirt to get into the floor coating. I usually prop the door onto a screw, and place 6" tall strips of particleboard up against it. It allows air flow but no leaves, bugs, kids!, or whatever else might damage my floor. Maybe he needs to speak to his installer and they should get their stories straight.

Shaun

 

[bigbadktm]

I did an interior entryway for an apartment complex with a polyurea due to the smell of our other sealers. Even cut with the small amount of acetone, the odor dissipated within minutes. A polyurethane will have a strong odor that will last for days inside a house...very, very strong odor, I'm talking a headache within minutes of being exposed. And 3 hours start to finish seems very fast. When using a 220 machine, we bring our own generator because we have the correct hookups and don't have to worry about the liability of your inside wiring.

Professionally speaking, it doesn't sound like they installed the sealer they are advertising. Now that the sealer has cured it definitely needs to be sanded and solvent wiped before coating. Removal of a polyaspartic is not going to be easy either.

How many guys were there to put down the sealer is the most important question. Not enough guys to properly roll out the sealer will leave overlaps and roller marks. At a minimum for a garage that size, 3 guys, 4 preferably. That product has a pot life of 10-15 minutes and is what allows it to be driven on so soon after completion.

As for odor and yellowing...they used epoxy or cheap poly on that person's job. This is all speculation, but I also speak from 9 years of epoxy experience and 13 years in the coating installation industry.

 

[dcs Inc]

With who?

Log a complaint with the company that installed the floor..... No response then call your attorney general and file a complaint there.

Was this a cheapest bid. Did they write a contract signed by both parties. Did the company offer a copy of their insurance? Do you have anything in writing just what was to be performed and materials used????

 

[wantonsoup]

• Yes, I did my research before going with this company. No, it wasn't the lowest bid.
• The company doesn't give a !@# about helping after they get paid.
• It seems from all evidence and posts here that for certain they did not use the VOC-Free polyaspartic they advertise.

The good news is that I was able to stop the check before they cashed it. Now I need to worry about have it completely redone and preparing for the lawsuit he might file (or I might file!)

I have also noticed spots on my little stem walls where their grinder damage the concrete, chipping out in spots and in one particular spot they blew out like a 3"x2" chunk of concrete near the garage door.

Sigh. What a mess. THANKS YELP FOR HIDING ALL OF THE NEGATIVE REVIEWS.

 

[workhurts]

Is this a real company or a guy with a truck and access to day laborers? Thanks to the internet, everyone is a business.

Unfortunately lowest or highest bid is not necessarily an indicator of quality. Good luck with resolution to this. As someone else said, what's done is done. Take some time away from it. Whether you grind and redo tomorrow or grind and redo in 6 months, there shouldn't be any rush unless you have business you need to run.

Still don't think you answered a couple of questions about whether you had a contract with this person or whether the terms specified type of product and warranty ... etc.

 

[wantonsoup]

It seems enough like a real company, they had a truck out with their logo and graphics on it and they were on Yelp and Angie's List.

No contract per se, just verbal and what's on their website, and he emailed me a receipt. I've downloaded all the relevent pages from the website and am trying to document the problems in case we go to court.

My sense of expediency is twofold - one I was trying to find out if there's an easy fix to the topcoat, as we have a ton of stuff on our deck I would prefer not to move three more times (in, then out, then back in). I also need to order cabinetry. The other reason is because I am expecting a lawsuit and need to mitigate the damages and situation promptly. A judge would not look kindly on my case if I just lived with the floor and expected to get it for free. I need to prove that it's a substandard floor, and that the work this company did was useless (and in fact harmful) to me.

Anyway, I don't take offense at anything here, I'm just trying to get information from people in-the-know and I appreciate the replies.

Goes to show that even companies with great reviews on popular rating sites can be complete scamming scumbags.

 

[dcs Inc]

A contract is as good as the paper it is written on. Wish you well on this.

 

[shaun oriold1]

It seems enough like a real company, they had a truck out with their logo and graphics on it and they were on Yelp and Angie's List.

No contract per se, just verbal and what's on their website, and he emailed me a receipt. I've downloaded all the relevent pages from the website and am trying to document the problems in case we go to court.

My sense of expediency is twofold - one I was trying to find out if there's an easy fix to the topcoat, as we have a ton of stuff on our deck I would prefer not to move three more times (in, then out, then back in). I also need to order cabinetry. The other reason is because I am expecting a lawsuit and need to mitigate the damages and situation promptly. A judge would not look kindly on my case if I just lived with the floor and expected to get it for free. I need to prove that it's a substandard floor, and that the work this company did was useless (and in fact harmful) to me.

Anyway, I don't take offense at anything here, I'm just trying to get information from people in-the-know and I appreciate the replies.

Goes to show that even companies with great reviews on popular rating sites can be complete scamming scumbags.[/QUOTE

A while ago I screwed up a full broadcast, flake floor. I used an unfamiliar crack filler, and it sunk down after coating, and the crack just transferred through my base coat, and top coat. I knew it was there once I scraped. I had hoped I would be able to sprinkle a few chips into the top coat and conceal it. As soon as squeegeed the top coat onto the floor I knew I was in trouble.

Long story short, I knew I had to fix it! I didnt ask for money until he was happy. He was moving in that weekend, and I really screwed up. - and screwed him up. He moved in, when he was ready he called me, and we went back and re-did the floor - all at my expense. He did have to move his stuff out again, and back in. Oh well.

I mention this as every company has screwed up at some point. Its easy to mix wrong ratios, and have a floor which doesn't cure. Or some unexpected moisture issues. Let the guy fix it at his expense, or he doent get paid.

Having to move some stuff isnt a big deal in the grand scheme of life. If it does go to court. No judge is going to fault you for putting your stuff back into your garage. If you damage the floor, who cares. It needs to be sanded down anyways.

Call the company and be civil. You cancelled the cheque so he is probably going to want to work with you to resolve the matter. Without lawyers too. Isnt there a saying about how only lawyers win once they get involved.

The fact that you want to jump to litigious options right away, makes me think you're not thinking this through calmly.

Call the company, and explain your side, and how you feel it needs to be sanded down, wiped with xylene ( Or similar) and re-top coated with polyaspartic - as originally agreed.

Good luck!