What's with the "new" Snap On boxes on Craigslist?

[Big Grouch]

I'm always browsing Craigslist for bargains. I see a number of claimed to be never used Snap On boxes for sale. "I bought it for $10,000 and never used it". Sometimes they are shown still in the crate. I would think the serial numbers would show it it was stolen. Or maybe someone is making knock offs? If someone wasn't making their payments to Snap On Credit, and I bought the box, could they repo it from me?
I would never buy tools if there was a hint they were stolen. That just creates a market for someone to steal my tools.

 

[Evan(CA)]

Students buy boxes at SEP prices and resell for profit fairly often. I haven't checked on any of the KRL boxes but the last quote I got for a Classic 78 was ~2100 and that included a 400 dollar gift card. As far as buying a box and having them repo it, I'm sure it's possible but I really don't see it happening. I asked my industrial rep if there was a way I could check if a box was stolen while I was shopping for a used one and he flat out said no. The only time you'd run into trouble is if you try to trade it in to a dealer or if the original truck guy who got burned just happened to recognize it which is pretty unlikely.

 

[Skin]

New tools purchased on credit and dumped for cash happens quite often. I see a lot of pawn shop accounts on ebay selling NIB Snap-On tools that someone has turned in for the cash.

As far as the boxes go, these threads have been posted before. Im not looking to start another roundabout argument with someone so i'll just post once here.

To my knowledge Snap-On does not, nor have they ever, tracked payments via serial numbers. Basically you can call up Snap-On corporate on the phone with a box number and they wont know anything about it other than when it was made and maybe what dealer purchased it. The information trail ends there.


As far as the repo question goes, they cannot legally reposes anything from you. Its a private sale in good faith and the box is not titled so once it changes hands its your property. Its nothing like a car lease where the dealer retains ownership on paper until the vehicle is purchased outright (hence the importance of a title). What remains is unsecured debt and that is always on the original purchaser regardless of where the tools or boxes go.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Students buy boxes at SEP prices and resell for profit fairly often. I haven't checked on any of the KRL boxes but the last quote I got for a Classic 78 was ~2100 and that included a 400 dollar gift card.

99.9% Sure KRL's and EPIQ's are not eligible for student pricing. Same goes for Macsimizers.

 

[Skin]

You're correct. Box selection in the SEP is very limited. Its something like half a dozen choices and they're all the Classic line. They do offer their flagship carts though like the KRSC46.

 

[GTA Matt]

Some of the 'deals' on CL on new boxes are scams. I emailed one, suspecting it was a scam, and sure enough, I got an email back wanting me to send them a 'cheque' and their 'client' would arrange shipping. No thanks.

 

[gsingh]

In the SEP Program, the only boxed we get are Classic 54 SS, Classic 54, Classic 36 and Heritage boxes. No KRL OR EPIC boxes.

 

[gsingh]

Some of the 'deals' on CL on new boxes are scams. I emailed one, suspecting it was a scam, and sure enough, I got an email back wanting me to send them a 'cheque' and their 'client' would arrange shipping. No thanks.

That happened to me when I tried to sell my truck on CL. " Ship the truck to blah blah blah location and you will receive a check in the mail". Its even worse when they say they are in the military or serving overseas.

 

[CTyankee]

l don't see a lot that state "new"..but I do see quite a few fairly new used ones. I've always wondered why. For what these things cost I would think folks would be damn sure they can afford them....and really want them....before they decide to buy one.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

l don't see a lot that state "new"..but I do see quite a few fairly new used ones. I've always wondered why. For what these things cost I would think folks would be damn sure they can afford them....and really want them....before they decide to buy one.

I think affordability plays into it only to the point if they can make the payments. They need it for work, and if the weekly payment works for them, they take the plunge and get it. Buying it that way is the only way they can afford it, but for what they're paying, it's way overpriced.

 

[scott917]

i bought my box off of Craigslist. But it wasn't new. And wasn't in the color that i would have liked... BUT $1,000 for a Classic 76, in Blue is not bad. I went over to see the box and it was in good shape. It had a teeny bit of paint spilled down the front of it on one of the drawers, and it had a wood top that was all "painted" up. It had one key and was in good shape. So i bought it. I had the top sanded down and it looks great now.

the guy selling it, got it as payment for some debt. He was moving back to California, and did not want to drag it back with him. I figured for $1,000 it was a good deal. So i bought it. i am sure I can get my money back out of it. and will get the Extreme Green box that i want some day in the future....

While my box was not brand new or even close. That is what the story behind my purchase.

S

 

[sector9]

Well in this thread, there are reports that someone rebadges Harbor Freight chests as Snap On and sells them on CL http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218282

 

[nicksnothereman]

New tools purchased on credit and dumped for cash happens quite often. I see a lot of pawn shop accounts on ebay selling NIB Snap-On tools that someone has turned in for the cash.

As far as the boxes go, these threads have been posted before. Im not looking to start another roundabout argument with someone so i'll just post once here.

To my knowledge Snap-On does not, nor have they ever, tracked payments via serial numbers. Basically you can call up Snap-On corporate on the phone with a box number and they wont know anything about it other than when it was made and maybe what dealer purchased it. The information trail ends there.


As far as the repo question goes, they cannot legally reposes anything from you. Its a private sale in good faith and the box is not titled so once it changes hands its your property. Its nothing like a car lease where the dealer retains ownership on paper until the vehicle is purchased outright (hence the importance of a title). What remains is unsecured debt and that is always on the original purchaser regardless of where the tools or boxes go.

THIS.

Though...it's not really your property if they can repossess it and apparently they can. I don't know what the heck kind of lien they use but it exists and they use it. Since that's the case this is essentially buying stolen property (or property with a note on it) which means they can repo it FROM YOU and leave you with nothing. I've never heard about this happening but it's possible it could. Always make sure stuff is paid off before buying it.

It's a trap.

 

[Sureshot]

Well in this thread, there are reports that someone rebadges Harbor Freight chests as Snap On and sells them on CL http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218282

SO is just a knock off of HF anyway

 

[ptschram]

New tools purchased on credit and dumped for cash happens quite often. I see a lot of pawn shop accounts on ebay selling NIB Snap-On tools that someone has turned in for the cash.

If a dealer were to learn this were the case, the pawn shop would be on the hook for receiving stolen property and it would be returned to the dealer.

When a buyer sings the invoice, they are recognizing ownership stays with the dealer until the bill is paid in full. Furthermore, they also are allowing the dealer to repossess the tools and charge the buyer a fee for recovery.

To my knowledge Snap-On does not, nor have they ever, tracked payments via serial numbers. Basically you can call up Snap-On corporate on the phone with a box number and they wont know anything about it other than when it was made and maybe what dealer purchased it. The information trail ends there.

When I write a contract for a credit sale, you can bet your *** the serial number is required.

As far as the repo question goes, they cannot legally reposes anything from you. Its a private sale in good faith and the box is not titled so once it changes hands its your property. Its nothing like a car lease where the dealer retains ownership on paper until the vehicle is purchased outright (hence the importance of a title). What remains is unsecured debt and that is always on the original purchaser regardless of where the tools or boxes go.

Buy a box from a deadbeat customer of mine and refuse to surrender it to me and you will find yourself being arrested for receiving stolen property.

In the State of Indiana, the burden is on the buyer to determine if there is a lien on an item.

There is a lien on every toolbox sold through Snap-On credit, AND, that lien is perfected through a UCC filing.

 

[Skin]

If a dealer were to learn this were the case, the pawn shop would be on the hook for receiving stolen property and it would be returned to the dealer.

When a buyer sings the invoice, they are recognizing ownership stays with the dealer until the bill is paid in full. Furthermore, they also are allowing the dealer to repossess the tools and charge the buyer a fee for recovery.

If you have your own little custom contracts written up, good for you and good luck with them in court. Snap-On credit is the same as any credit company and no, the goods are not "stolen" . Again its unsecured debt. They want the money and the interest and that's what has transferred to the purchaser, the items purchased are secondary. When you default on credit the credit company never calls you up and says "where are the items purchased on such and such a date, give them to us". Again, unsecured debt.

Buy a box from a deadbeat customer of mine and refuse to surrender it to me and you will find yourself being arrested for receiving stolen property.

In the State of Indiana, the burden is on the buyer to determine if there is a lien on an item.

There is a lien on every toolbox sold through Snap-On credit, AND, that lien is perfected through a UCC filing.

Liens vary state by state and in most your claim would be thrown out if put to the test. This also assumes someone lets you onto their property to identify your goods and the serial number you recorded hasn't been removed.

Don't get all defensive like im advocating everyone run out and find fresh boxes that have barely been paid for and get them for a song. Im not and personally i'd want to see a completed bill of sale as well just so I know im not going to cause someone like yourself a hard time when you go to collect on a dead beat. I am saying the legal ramifications, should you accidentally find yourself in such a position, are very limited and in no way shape or form should the second party be made out as if they were a criminal.

 

[Evan(CA)]

In the SEP Program, the only boxed we get are Classic 54 SS, Classic 54, Classic 36 and Heritage boxes. No KRL OR EPIC boxes.

99.9% Sure KRL's and EPIQ's are not eligible for student pricing. Same goes for Macsimizers.

I emailed my rep last night and he said that's 100% incorrect. I can order anything SO sells at a SEP price.

 

[ptschram]

If you have your own little custom contracts written up, good for you and good luck with them in court. Snap-On credit is the same as any credit company and no, the goods are not "stolen" . Again its unsecured debt. They want the money and the interest and that's what has transferred to the purchaser, the items purchased are secondary. When you default on credit the credit company never calls you up and says "where are the items purchased on such and such a date, give them to us". Again, unsecured debt.

The credit company never calls and says to give up the product, eh?

You have never defaulted on a note to Snap-On credit, have you? The note that Snap-On enters into between me, and the buyer indicates that the tools are the security for the debt, therefor, it IS a secured note.


If you sell something for which you still owe money and discontinue paying, how do you consider that to not at the very least amount to conversion?

The tools belong to me until the note is paid.

Maybe you should be instructing the guys from whom I have repossessed their tools and boxes that they didn't need to give them back to me.

vary state by state and in most your claim would be thrown out if put to the test. This also assumes someone lets you onto their property to identify your goods and the serial number you recorded hasn't been removed.

Don't get all defensive like im advocating everyone run out and find fresh boxes that have barely been paid for and get them for a song. Im not and personally i'd want to see a completed bill of sale as well just so I know im not going to cause someone like yourself a hard time when you go to collect on a dead beat. I am saying the legal ramifications, should you accidentally find yourself in such a position, are very limited and in no way shape or form should the second party be made out as if they were a criminal.

Regardless of the good faith on the part of the buyer, it money was owed, the product did not belong to the person who sold it and I am able to recover my stuff. I can cite a few instances of buyers who refused to give up stolen goods and were charged with receiving stolen goods and more where the police telling they would be arrested for receiving stolen property was sufficient to allow me to recover stolen property.

Yes, I have consulted legal counsel on this topic just last week to ensure that I do not run afoul of the laws in my attempts to collect.

 

[Skin]

ptschram, you don't seem to understand that you're operating off hearsay and threats. If you push it to an actual judge you need definitive proof that the tools are yours and if neither the seller (owner) or buyer (new owner) can confirm that fact you lose. Especially for someplace like a pawn shop that undoubtedly sees high volumes of items pass through it. From a creditor stand point its so much easier and simpler to garnish wages than it is to chase product as a form of reimbursement especially if its in the hands of another party.

I said I didn't want to get into another roundabout debate over this and I did so im just going to drop it here.

I emailed my rep last night and he said that's 100% incorrect. I can order anything SO sells at a SEP price.

I don't believe there are SEP pricing for KRLs or Epiqs so that's kind of moot. The only boxes discounted are Classic series unless things have changed.

 

[Evan(CA)]

I don't believe there are SEP pricing for KRLs or Epiqs so that's kind of moot. The only boxes discounted are Classic series unless things have changed.

I wasn't playing any word games when I said I can get SEP pricing on anything SO sells. I emailed the rep last night so I could get first hand information before I posted. I'm looking at a quote right now for all available accessories for my KRL7002; hutch, work surface, top locker, top and side boxes, drawer guards etc. but I asked specifically about roll cabs and he said those wouldn't be a problem either.

 

[Skin]

Are you sure hes not an industrial rep?

 

[Evan(CA)]

Are you sure hes not an industrial rep?

You have to order through the industrial rep to get SEP pricing.

 

[cheechi]

The note that Snap-On enters into between me, and the buyer indicates that the tools are the security for the debt, therefor, it IS a secured note.
...
The tools belong to me until the note is paid.

That's consignment, not secured debt.

Without a title or equivalent, or collateral, debt on credit is unsecured.

 

[Skin]

You have to order through the industrial rep to get SEP pricing.

Nope, you can order online. If you browse it on the web that's the catalog you're suppose to be limited to also with a limit of 1 of each item and a $7500 dollar max spending allowance. Industrial reps have access to the entire line and can pretty much do as they please without the above restrictions. Its not incorrect to say the SEP is technically limited to the Classic boxes.