Armstrong or Craftsman Premium Ratchet

[PDXCummins]

Im trying to slowly replace all of my foreign made tools with all USA made ones as i can afford to do so. I was planning on getting the Craftsman premium ratchets but after looking at the Armstrong im starting to think thats the way to go. I went and took a gander at some today and they seem really well built and are right about the same price as the Craftsman Premium. Both ratchets seem to get pretty good reviews but i was just curious if anyone had used both and would like to indulge me with what they know.
Thanks
Craftsman Premium
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-prem...0902548000P?prdNo=14&blockNo=14&blockType=G14

Armstrong
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012WJ46Q/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[firebox40dash5]

Armstrong Maxx hands down for me, between the 2 choices. I'd check Fleabay though, for a used Matco BFR128LFT locking flex. I didn't have "standard" length 1/4" or 3/8" ratchets for a long time, and now that I do I almost never use them, I prefer the leverage and versatility of the longer flex ratchets, and you can always lock them straight (or not straight). I've picked up 88T Matcos for not much over $50.

 

[Air21]

I believe that they are both made by Dhorner and can accommodate 88 tooth MAC internals if you want that.

I have also been considering these wrenches for my kit for A&P school, I have been leaning towards Armstrong but its also my name so I may be biased

Where did you see one in the flesh? Im hesitant to buy hand tools I cant put my hands on first. What did you think of the handle?

 

[LB-1911]

Im trying to slowly replace all of my foreign made tools with all USA made ones as i can afford to do so. I was planning on getting the Craftsman premium ratchets but after looking at the Armstrong im starting to think thats the way to go. I went and took a gander at some today and they seem really well built and are right about the same price as the Craftsman Premium. Both ratchets seem to get pretty good reviews but i was just curious if anyone had used both and would like to indulge me with what they know.
Thanks
Craftsman Premium
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-prem...0902548000P?prdNo=14&blockNo=14&blockType=G14

Armstrong
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012WJ46Q/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Another you may want to consider -
3/8" Drive Armstrong Aerospace Ratchet - 88 tooth
http://store.harryepstein.com/cp/Ratchets/11-992.html

http://store.harryepstein.com/search?q=Armstrong

Good Luck

 

[d.mcfarland]

The Craftsman has lots of positive reviews if you like the handle. It's also a tad longer and is probably much easier to take use of the warranty.

 

[Chadwilliam1]

I have both but if I had to choose only one of the two styles I think I would go with the craftsman. Longer handle but more importantly it has a sealed head with bolts and o-rings and the whole 9. The Armstrong has a snap ring so if you put oil in it it will leak out quicker. Also the 1/2 drive Armstrong comes with a 60 tooth so you have to call Matco to get a $20 rebuild kit sent to you to make it an 88 tooth kit like the 3/8 and 1/4.

 

[Brownsfan]

I have the set of craftsman premiums. I reach for them first even over my snap on and Cornwell. The 1/4 is my favorite.

 

[ibedayank]

I believe that they are both made by Dhorner and can accommodate 88 tooth MAC internals if you want that.

I have also been considering these wrenches for my kit for A&P school, I have been leaning towards Armstrong but its also my name so I may be biased

Where did you see one in the flesh? Im hesitant to buy hand tools I cant put my hands on first. What did you think of the handle?

Apex Tool Group is a U.S. based supplier of hand tools and power tools. It was formed as a joint venture of Cooper Industries and Danaher by the merger of Cooper Tools and Danaher's Tools and Components segment. In October 2012 Danaher and Cooper sold Apex to Bain Capital for about $1.6 billion

 

[djwyman]

You don't "have" to do that.

There's really not a major difference between 60 and 88 teeth. I upgraded one and it wasn't worth it.

Plus, the OP is considering the 3/8" drive ratchet, so if he buys from a place that has new stock he'll be getting 88 teeth in the Armstrong.

I would definitely vote for the Armstrong. Yes, warranty will be more of a hassle, but if you don't abuse the tool you won't break it. And, when Craftsman stops carrying these premium ratchets, you'll be SOL. With the way they're going, I'm shocked Sears even still has them.

My sears don't carry them...I would have to order one if I wanted that ratchet...which I did kinda want it. Then I tried the SO dual 80 and forgot all about wanting this ratchet. If my sears would carry them i might still buy one one day for home use but until they do they can keep it as it would be something I would want to hold in my hand before buying.

 

[bart1]

I'm very happy with my Armstrong 1/2" long locking flex from Harry Epstein. Handle is odd looking, but works.

 

[Chadwilliam1]

You don't "have" to do that.

There's really not a major difference between 60 and 88 teeth. I upgraded one and it wasn't worth it.

I upgraded one and it was worth it. 28 teeth is worth it.

 

[djwyman]

I upgraded one and it was worth it. 28 teeth is worth it.

hell 28 teeth is almost another ratchet if you think about it.

 

[Chadwilliam1]

creates noticeable change in my book.

 

[PDXCummins]

I saw the Armstrong at Hall Tools in Portland, Oregon. I liked the feel of it but i do tend to like a slightly heavier ratchet. They had 3/8 for 45$ and 1/4 for a little under 40$ if I remember correctly. I thought that was a good price for a high tooth count USA made ratchet. The reasons that I i'm leaning towards the Craftsman Premiums are I can get them for cheaper with a coupon, I'm a slight tool snob and already have quite a few USA made Craftsman tools, and finally that i only live about 10 minutes from a Sears which would make warranty issues really easy. This was my first time seeing an Armstrong ratchet and for the money i was really impressed.

 

[djwyman]

Definitely not worth it to me. It's not a big difference.



Except that if you really think about it, then it's not that big of a difference.

From my experience, anything over 60 teeth is more than fine enough for any tight situation I've found my ratchet in. I understand that people always want the "best," but the ******* matches over ratchet tooth count have basically petered out, IMO. Going to 100 or 120 teeth is into the worthless zone where you're just counting teeth, IMO.

Ratchet tooth counts suffer from diminishing returns as you increase. Going from 20 to 48 teeth is a huge difference. Going from 36 to 60+ teeth is a big difference. Going from 60 to 88 teeth is not a very big difference.

it is still a 2 degree difference that could make a big difference in a tight spot...I mean I have no dog in this fight and not trying to fight but I could see how going from 60 to 88 could be a step up if someone wanted to do said upgrade provided said upgrade does not reduce torque that that ratchet can handle. If it does reduce the torque that the ratchet can handle then it is not a big enough difference to justify switching.

All that being said I have a 1/2" craftsman thin profile that is 60 tooth and my 3/8" is a snap on 80 and I like both though I do plan to replace the craftsman soon with a snap on so that I can bring the craftsman home and have ratchets at school I like and at home I like.

 

[Chadwilliam1]

or he just linked the 3/8 but plans to buy all three of which ever type he picks.

 

[DTB]

I'd go Armstrong over Craftsman because like mentioned,eventually Sears won't have these anymore.The standard length Armstrong should be 88 teeth now.I'd probably just get this Matco 88.Atleast with the Matco your not dealing with some of the other horror stories of Danaher warranty at Fastenal,etc.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCO-Tools...ools&hash=item3cd850f3ed&vxp=mtr#ht_737wt_981

 

[PDXCummins]

One other high point of the Craftsman Premiums is that with a coupon i can get both the 1/4 and 3/8 for right around 70$. Not to say thats a huge difference than the 85$ would set me back from the Armstrongs but 15 bucks is 15 bucks.

 

[GoodEnough]

I love the diminishing returns graph posted by SMKS,
but another way to look at it is going from 60 to 88 goes from 6* to 4* arc.
That's a reduction of arc by 33%.
Or going from 88* to 60* increases arc by 50%.
Pretty significant.

 

[woody 73]

As crazy as it sounds sometimes I don't understand the need to purge the foreign made tools from ones tool box. I like the Armstrong and craftsman ratchets but I picked up a few Taiwan ratchets along the way that are just a joy to use; I guess each to his own.

 

[Brownsfan]

Even with the prospect of sears not making them anymore I would still get the premiums. I don't have any Armstrong ratchets so I can't say how good or bad they are. But if you get the craftsmans and manage not to break them you will have arguably the best ratchets ever to don the craftsman name. So if sears stops selling them you will have tools you can ask a ridiculous amount on eBay like the flex rhft. They also have a very slim profile to get into tight spots. And 84t if you are in one of those spots.

 

[Tsquare]

The design of the Craftsman - size, shape, length and weight is very nice. It's a unique design compared to other ratchets - Craftsman did a nice job with these ratchets

 

[Bib Overalls]

I'm finding a lot of good deals on USA made Craftsman tool on eBay right now. Took the time to inventory my CM sets today and ordered some replacements for tools that apparently "took a walk" when I was not looking. Motivated mostly by talk here of Craftsman going off shore.

Did not buy a Craftsman Premium ratchet but there are a couple of good deals.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-P...08295445?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item20dab5b715

 

[homesale]

If you want tooth count get the GW 120XP ratchets.

 

[billp603]

The Craftsman has lots of positive reviews if you like the handle. It's also a tad longer and is probably much easier to take use of the warranty.

I have a Craftsman Premium 1/2" and it is very nice, but if I now had to buy one of these it would be an Armstrong. The "feature" of a Craftsman warranty in the future now has no value to me, you would likely be getting an inferior product. If I break any of my Craftsman tools I'll look for a used USA replacement on ebay before swapping it for their new re-badged Companion line.

 

[Skin]

I love the diminishing returns graph posted by SMKS,
but another way to look at it is going from 60 to 88 goes from 6* to 4* arc.
That's a reduction of arc by 33%.
Or going from 88* to 60* increases arc by 50%.
Pretty significant.

2 degrees less is not significant out of the full 360 degree rotation though. Lets say you only have a 40 degree swing, the 88 is giving you 9 clicks vs the 60 tooth ratchets 6 clicks and to top it off there is a negligible swing advantage granted by the extra teeth, you're basically just ratcheting 3 more than the other guy in the same swing arc.

 

[thumper70]

I have all of the armstrong maxx ratchets 1/4-1/2 and I use them 5 days a week as a professional tech. I've had no issues with any of them and would recommend them to anyone looking for a reasonably priced tool.

 

[sk farmer]

i have the 1/4 and 3/8 maxx ratchets in standard and locking flex. i put them up near the top of my all time favorite ratchets.i highly recomend. i also have a gearwrench converted to 88 and the new three piece gearwrench 120 set (1/4,3/8 and 1/2).

to all of the naysayers on tooth count that say the jump from 60 to 88 teeth does not matter, i disagree. i have had many instances that have been made easier by a shorter 2 degree swing. i was sure wishing i had a lower tooth count 3/4 ratchet just the other day working on equipment.

don't get me wrong though. in many case 60 teeth are plenty and all three 60,88 120 are very nice ratchets, ( i like all of them better than my dual 80) but when you are in a tight spot it it sure nice to grab a different ratchet and have that little extra small bite. if i had to rank them the 88 tooth would be my favorite of the three.

 

[kippieland]

Armstrong! Have both 1/4 and 3/8 Maxx. They are on level with any Snap-on or Matco ratchets I have. I would go with the Gearwrench ratchets before anything Craftsman....I just don't want to give them any of my money!

 

[m4rkz0r]

I dont know if anyone has mentioned it, but advanced auto has armstrong locking flex heads online only. If you google for coupon codes you can usually get the 1/2 and 3/8 cheaper at advanced auto than harry epstein.

 

[Vvmvbb]

I don't think comparing angles or percentages is particularly useful.
For an 8" ratchet, you can move the end 14.5mm per click for an 88 tooth, 21.2mm for a 60. That's the value.

The Cman premiums terrific, no regrets at all. Love the handles.
And I kind of like to vote with my dollars and let 'em know they did this thing right.

 

[CWP1616L]

I'd pick the Cornwell JR72 for a regular length 3/8 drive ratchet.

 

[Skin]

Armstrong! Have both 1/4 and 3/8 Maxx. They are on level with any Snap-on or Matco ratchets I have. I would go with the Gearwrench ratchets before anything Craftsman....I just don't want to give them any of my money!

Craftsman is just a brand. They'll sell what the market demands. The ratchets were ultimately designed and manufactured by the USA sectors of Apex tool group so that's who you'd be supporting. They even went to the extent that the packaging/info card was made in the USA. I really like my Cman Premium ratchets, its just a damn shame that some bean counter decided to send the rest of the brand to Asia.

 

[kippieland]

Craftsman is just a brand. They'll sell what the market demands. The ratchets were ultimately designed and manufactured by the USA sectors of Apex tool group so that's who you'd be supporting. They even went to the extent that the packaging/info card was made in the USA. I really like my Cman Premium ratchets, its just a damn shame that some bean counter decided to send the rest of the brand to Asia.

Yeah I get that. Just my preference. Would rather purchase from Amazon. They have a MUCH better selection.

 

[The Frisco Kid]

Armstrong is badass, I really enjoy mine! Sold my Cman pros.

 

[TJJP77]

Even if Craftsman discontinues these, they will probably have the rebuild kits for a while. Plus, it seems like it's not difficult to use a rebuild kit from a Matco or Armstrong if push comes to shove. By the way, I have a set of these and they are quite nice. I especially love the leverage from the longish handles.

 

[Skin]

Even if Craftsman discontinues these, they will probably have the rebuild kits for a while. Plus, it seems like it's not difficult to use a rebuild kit from a Matco or Armstrong if push comes to shove. By the way, I have a set of these and they are quite nice. I especially love the leverage from the longish handles.

The Craftsman 84T drive gear is unique to the ratchet because of the fact that it uses a real cover plate instead of a cheap piece of stamped metal and a snap ring. In order to make it fit in the same thin head design they took material out of the back of the gear and ratchet head so that its ever so slightly recessed. No one else uses a design like it currently. If you try to put a Matco or Armstrong or even a Gearwrench kit into the Craftsman Premium heads everything will fit fine but you'll find the gear will bind completely when you tighten the cover plate screws.


That said it takes abuse to break a ratchet. Simply don't abuse it and it will last decades. There is a plethora of old ratchets for sale every day that still function fine with their original 30-40 year old internals.

Well, you would be supporting Sears in addition to Apex. Sears isn't selling them at cost. Sears is making a profit, too.

The point is you aren't supporting only Sears.

 

[TJJP77]

The Craftsman 84T drive gear is unique to the ratchet because of the fact that it uses a real cover plate instead of a cheap piece of stamped metal and a snap ring. In order to make it fit in the same thin head design they took material out of the back of the gear and ratchet head so that its ever so slightly recessed. No one else uses a design like it currently. If you try to put a Matco or Armstrong or even a Gearwrench kit into the Craftsman Premium heads everything will fit fine but you'll find the gear will bind completely when you tighten the cover plate screws.

Good to know. I would've swore I saw threads on here about upgrading the Craftsman to 88 teeth, but I guess I'm mistaken.

 

[Revere Cycles]

I don't think you could go wrong with either one; I looked at both not too long ago and went with the Craftsman Premium only because they were stocked locally. I would go with Armstrong for the flex head, since the Craftsman ratchet is not available in that style.

 

[zakmartin]

OP: I have both of those ratchet sets (only difference is that the Armstrongs have the locking flex head.) To be honest, I don't really like the handle on the Armstrongs since the sharper corners cut into your palms. I'd take the Craftsman Premiums if you can get a deal on them. That being said, the chroming on the Armstrong is better than the Craftsman's. The Craftsman ratchets use a softer chrome and if you hit something sharp with moderate force, you're going to get a barb that you'll have to file down. I haven't run into that problem with the Armstrongs.