Bolt on wheel hubs as trailer axles.

[KerryH]

Hey guys, I have seen some trailer builds popping up recently where the builders have chosen to utilize bolt on wheel hubs and steel tubing to construct axles for a trailer.

An example is this trailer: http://engineeredtoslide.com/2012/06/ets-trailer-build-its-getting-there/ I believe the trailer is upside down in those photos but the concept is there.

You can see a couple more pics of the hubs here: http://engineeredtoslide.com/2012/05/another-project-ets-trailer-build/

I am not interested in a debate on buying vs building a trailer, or people asking why you would want to go this route vs normal trailer axles and wheels, I am simply curious as to whether that is acceptable use of the bolt on hub.

I'm not sure where I heard it, but I was under the assumption that those types of hubs relied on the axle shaft being bolted into them for them to be structurally safe. The build linked goes against that convention.

 

[bullnerd]

Pretty slick. Yes, as far as I know the unit bearing is held together by the stub shaft.

 

[red92s]

Pretty slick. Yes, as far as I know the unit bearing is held together by the stub shaft.

At least on wheels that have axles going through them. I thiiiink Timken has some models that are designed to fit 4x2 and 4x4 applications with the same bearing that may not rely on a nut to retain everything.

 

[metaleltr]

Some do, some don't. It is hard to say without knowing what they are out of. I personally like the idea, but I do not like that they are not able to be serviced. For example, I know that on a 2000 era Chevy Blazer 2 wheel drive, they use this type of bearing. No axle shaft, in fact the bearing doesn't even have a hole through it. In the same light, a 2000 era Chevy Blazer 4 wheel drive there is in fact an axle shaft and the torque of the axle nut is critical to the operation and performance of bearing.

 

[metaleltr]

At least on wheels that have axles going through them. I thiiiink Timken has some models that are designed to fit 4x2 and 4x4 applications with the same bearing that may not rely on a nut to retain everything.

200 Chevy Trailblazer uses this style front hub bearing.

 

[koditten]

All most all front wheel drive cars have something similar to what you are describing. The rear spindle is bolted to a swing arm and looks very similar to what you have shown in the link.

I am not understanding your question, to be honest. In the pics shown, the spindle is bolted and the hub is held onto the spindle with a nut.

I don't see anything wrong with the the design that they are using.

KO

 

[metaleltr]

The issues is that some of these bearing require the axle stub to be torqued properly in order to keep the bearing together.

 

[Spareparts]

Might be a little harder to find but the Rambler had bolt on front spindles, nice flat face and were used a lot on shop built trailers. I still have a couple on my shelf now Use a 3" tube and 1/2" flat bar to make a dropped axle. They have a flange on the back side to bolt on brake backing plates.

 

[KerryH]

All most all front wheel drive cars have something similar to what you are describing. The rear spindle is bolted to a swing arm and looks very similar to what you have shown in the link.

I am not understanding your question, to be honest. In the pics shown, the spindle is bolted and the hub is held onto the spindle with a nut.

I don't see anything wrong with the the design that they are using.

KO

I am speaking more about the type that go in the front of some FWD cars and in the rear of some RWD cars similar to this:

In the blog I linked he has only bolted the flange to his plate, and does not have an axle stub going through the bearing like it would be on a car. This is what my original question is referring to.

 

[srmofo]

Those hub bearings cost more than a trailer axle and they fail frequently on many models/makes.

You are correct in assuming that some hubs require a stub shaft, but some dont.

 

[koditten]

I was just going to comment on that. I just gone replacing 2, on the same side in 2 weeks on an Olds Alaro.

Now that I know what we are talking about, I would not want to use FWD bearring assemblies. You would still need the hub bolted in there to keep the bearring from seperating. The support comes from the axle stub being torqued inside the bearring assembly.

Seconly, I've seen what happens when those bearrings go. I'm glad there was a half shaft end bolted in place to keep the whole thing from seperating.

 

[383 240z]

I bought these a few years ago for a trailer I never built. I have no idea what they are from. They fit GM FWD steel wheels very nicely. Keith

 

[srmofo]

Those look very similar to hubs on the rear of older GMs and venture vans etc

 

[creativecars]

Yes and No,
I can’t tell by the picture which type they used for their trailer and if it is a front hub design, I would not use them. I have in fact used a set of hubs like the ones I pictured for over 10 years, I got them used from a salvage yard for 15.00 for the pair. I do worry about them, but only because their age. I made a tow dolly out of them and I can put a 4x8 metal box for hauling stuff. I have had a 3/4 full size van with a 460 on it and never had a problem. Also when I had the box on there I had it filled to the 18" sides with sand, that’s about 6000 pounds on 1 pair of axle stubs. I loaned it to a friend and he had it loaded with cement pieces hit a pot hole and bent/broke the lug nuts off. The wheel was not hub centric. I have towed this over 4,000 miles since then. The factory hubs have proven very durable!

 

[creativecars]

I bought these a few years ago for a trailer I never built. I have no idea what they are from. They fit GM FWD steel wheels very nicely. Keith

Yep, Mine have been very tough.

 

[383 240z]

The plan was for just a little 5x8 trailer, to put behind the CJ. If I ever get all the other jobs done, I'll get on it. Keith

 

[Elvenhome21]

On the superlite trailer that we built, we used eagle talon rear hubs that are bolt on. They have held up to more abuse then anything they were ever remotely designed for. However using ANY hub from a chevy truck from about mid 90's til early 2010's is just asking for failure from the start. Piss poor design and very short life.

 

[383 240z]

Really???? I've owned 5-6 of those 88-98 GM full size trucks. Never replaced a front wheel bearing in any of them, they were all 4WD. Keith

 

[Elvenhome21]

An example is this trailer: http://engineeredtoslide.com/2012/06/ets-trailer-build-its-getting-there/ I believe the trailer is upside down in those photos but the concept is there.

You can see a couple more pics of the hubs here: http://engineeredtoslide.com/2012/05/another-project-ets-trailer-build/

This guys trailer design is counter productive on many levels. It has air ride very similar to the trailer Im building which is the only plus, however the frame is TINY and flimsy. The plates that mount the hub to the axle are ridiculously thin and along with the axle tube for 6" of torque PLUS very low pro tires will make them twist like pretzels when turning. AND the fenders are MONSTERS which will make using it for any car other then race cars that the doors dont open impossible.

 

[Elvenhome21]

Really???? I've owned 5-6 of those 88-98 GM full size trucks. Never replaced a front wheel bearing in any of them, they were all 4WD. Keith

must just be the 99 and newer with the hub issues, but I thought the hub design was the same on the 88-98 and 99+ generations. I know a lot of front suspension components were carried over and I thought hubs were one of them.

 

[creativecars]

Designs vary and its apparent this is for hauling his little car and is not meant to be a heavy hauler. Even though I can affirm these axle stubs durability, I would not put them on a full size trailer. The axle mounting plates appear to be about 3/8” thick, that’s as thick as the flange the bolts mount with. I don’t see the problem with them.

 

[Bib Overalls]

I built a tandem axle trailer 25 years ago using FWD Chevy Citation rear axles. They were widened a bit. I used the Citation wheels tires. The trailer went everywhere with my Beck 550 on it. When we were building our house I used it to haul lumber. I even used it to haul my 26 Model T Ford sedan home from Oklahoma.

The hubs mount to vertical plates on the axles. The Citation axles had a bit of drop that I liked. 10-15 years ago I saw pictures of motorcycle trailers on-line that were built using the same axles.

Down side was small tires and the FWD bolt pattern.

If I were to do it again I would use regular trailer axles. Always worried about burning up one of the sealed hubs in nowhere USA.

 

[ishiboo]

Hey guys, I have seen some trailer builds popping up recently where the builders have chosen to utilize bolt on wheel hubs and steel tubing to construct axles for a trailer.

An example is this trailer: http://engineeredtoslide.com/2012/06/ets-trailer-build-its-getting-there/ I believe the trailer is upside down in those photos but the concept is there.

You can see a couple more pics of the hubs here: http://engineeredtoslide.com/2012/05/another-project-ets-trailer-build/

I am not interested in a debate on buying vs building a trailer, or people asking why you would want to go this route vs normal trailer axles and wheels, I am simply curious as to whether that is acceptable use of the bolt on hub.

I'm not sure where I heard it, but I was under the assumption that those types of hubs relied on the axle shaft being bolted into them for them to be structurally safe. The build linked goes against that convention.

The purpose of using those, of course, is to get the trailer frame as low to the ground as possible for the purpose of loading low vehicles/etc. If you do not need the lowest possible trailer, it does not make sense to use them. A trailer axle and leaf spring suspension is cheaper, more reliable and can hold a lot more weight.

If you need a very low trailer, you can accomplish the task using spindles and proper trailer wheel hubs... you just weld the spindles to wherever you're going to put them instead of a full-width axle.

 

[kerrynzl]

All most all front wheel drive cars have something similar to what you are describing. The rear spindle is bolted to a swing arm and looks very similar to what you have shown in the link.

I am not understanding your question, to be honest. In the pics shown, the spindle is bolted and the hub is held onto the spindle with a nut.

I don't see anything wrong with the the design that they are using.

KO

Correct.Some Nissans [ Skylines, 300z, Silvias ] have bolt on rear spindles and hubs.

 

[kerrynzl]

The purpose of using those, of course, is to get the trailer frame as low to the ground as possible for the purpose of loading low vehicles/etc. If you do not need the lowest possible trailer, it does not make sense to use them. A trailer axle and leaf spring suspension is cheaper, more reliable and can hold a lot more weight.

If you need a very low trailer, you can accomplish the task using spindles and proper trailer wheel hubs... you just weld the spindles to wherever you're going to put them instead of a full-width axle.

The downside is you need to open the doors over the fenders to get out of the car [ unless you winch it on ]
An 8'6" wide trailer doesn't need to be as low as Grand Prix racer.
A good tilt deck achieves the same results.

 

[NHBandit]

When I worked in the auto salvage business I sold many many Chrysler minivan rear axles as well as just the bolt on spindle, hub, backing plate assemblys from those vans to guys building light duty trailers. These are a conventional old style spindle with 2 seperate tapered wheel bearings though. They are cheap and plentiful though and the older ones come with drum brakes if you care to put a surge brake on your trailer. Here's a pic from Google of a trailer built using Caravan rear axle & springs. Sorry if this is OT to your original question but thousands of trailers have been made this way and it's cheap & easy. The spindle bolts to the axle with 4 bolts so it's even a great choice if you don't want to use the van axle. You can take them apart & grease them now & then and the bearings are easy to replace and available everywhere. To me it's a no brainer when looking for an easy way to build a cheap trailer.

 

[KerryH]

Correct.Some Nissans [ Skylines, 300z, Silvias ] have bolt on rear spindles and hubs.

Yes, I myself am most familiar with those type, I have SEVERAL sets in my garage.

 

[iagsxr]

When I worked in the auto salvage business I sold many many Chrysler minivan rear axles as well as just the bolt on spindle, hub, backing plate assemblys from those vans to guys building light duty trailers. These are a conventional old style spindle with 2 seperate tapered wheel bearings though. They are cheap and plentiful though and the older ones come with drum brakes if you care to put a surge brake on your trailer. Here's a pic from Google of a trailer built using Caravan rear axle & springs. Sorry if this is OT to your original question but thousands of trailers have been made this way and it's cheap & easy. The spindle bolts to the axle with 4 bolts so it's even a great choice if you don't want to use the van axle. You can take them apart & grease them now & then and the bearings are easy to replace and available everywhere. To me it's a no brainer when looking for an easy way to build a cheap trailer.

My old man and I built three or four trailers with Caravan hubs. He still has a couple of them. I used the oldest one a couple months ago to move my loaded 1350 Macsimizer with a top box on it.

That's the day you appreciate a really low trailer.

 

[Doug B]

I bought these a few years ago for a trailer I never built. I have no idea what they are from. They fit GM FWD steel wheels very nicely. Keith

I used this type hub for my 5 x 9 trailer.5 years,no problems.

 

[kerrynzl]

Yes, I myself am most familiar with those type, I have SEVERAL sets in my garage.

Why would you consider using those ?

You can buy a drop spindle kit with electric brakes for a lot less grief [and risk] and $$$
These kits are cheap in NZ and probably cheaper in the USA.

Spend your creative time, building the rest of the trailer with innovation.

Or better still if you're obsessed with a low ride height, flip upside down a torsion axle [ have the arms going forward and up ]

 

[koditten]

Given the choice of using something that I have on hand vs spending time and money to obtain something I don't have, I would use what is available.

I many cases, if a person has these types of hubs salvaged from a car, there is a real good chance ther have tires and wheels that will fit as well. A person just saved rougly $600 by not having to purchase new trailer hardware. (referring to a 2 axle trailer)

I build and sell trailers, I see no issue with using these spindle/hubs for light duty trailers. As long as a person building the trailer is aware of the limitations, you should be good to go.

I would actually say a person might be ahead of the game. I have to build every trailer knowing for a fact that a customer WILL over load the thing. A person building their own trailer will most likely give some real though to how much the trailer will haul.

I am only referring to the hub systems, the design of the trailer in the link has left many questions in my mind and I do not want to comment on that. Thats a different dead horse to beat.

KO

 

[kerrynzl]

HaHa! That sounds very similar to my country.

Load rating is often interpreted as "overload rating".

My comments about DIY axles are aimed at limited skills of some people.
They might be perfectly competent to build a trailer but not competent enough to fabricate an axle.

I can buy a complete hub and stub,bearing kit to build an idler axle for $65. [3500lb ] all brand new.

At that price, I wouldn't even bother to go to the local "U-pull"

 

[Doug B]

Given the choice of using something that I have on hand vs spending time and money to obtain something I don't have, I would use what is available.

I many cases, if a person has these types of hubs salvaged from a car, there is a real good chance ther have tires and wheels that will fit as well. A person just saved rougly $600 by not having to purchase new trailer hardware. (referring to a 2 axle trailer)

I build and sell trailers, I see no issue with using these spindle/hubs for light duty trailers. As long as a person building the trailer is aware of the limitations, you should be good to go.

I would actually say a person might be ahead of the game. I have to build every trailer knowing for a fact that a customer WILL over load the thing. A person building their own trailer will most likely give some real though to how much the trailer will haul.

I am only referring to the hub systems, the design of the trailer in the link has left many questions in my mind and I do not want to comment on that. Thats a different dead horse to beat.

KO

Bingo